Contingency planning : When Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

[thfcsteff]

I think it's a dangerous assumption to assume he does have "full squad buy in".

That's true. Certainly some who are leaving will be happy to leave. But when Reggie is parading around Bilbao with a pro-Ange banner, it's an assumption I'm OK making (despite my reluctance to make them in general)...

 

[thfcsteff]

If you were the owner of a company, let's say an investment firm and you had a stock brocker that over 2 years kept making bad investment after bad investment and was losing money but decided to use the last of his allocation on 1 big gamble, would you be happy to keep him on even if the gamble paid off?

Maybe because I'm a business owner I see things slightly different and try to take emotion out of decision making.

I really don't envy Levy at the moment but I wonder how much of an influence our new CEO will have on whether to keep Ange or not? When does he officially start?

It's an excellent question. In many ways, the only question which matters, because you've distilled it to the only man who will ultimately make (or has made) the decision.

And yes, again, the question re: CEO is also key. I'll add that how our set-up is going to be is also key. Is Munn still part of it? Does Paratici come in? Would he and Lange work together?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If you were the owner of a company, let's say an investment firm and you had a stock brocker that over 2 years kept making bad investment after bad investment and was losing money but decided to use the last of his allocation on 1 big gamble, would you be happy to keep him on even if the gamble paid off?

Maybe because I'm a business owner I see things slightly different and try to take emotion out of decision making.

I really don't envy Levy at the moment but I wonder how much of an influence our new CEO will have on whether to keep Ange or not? When does he officially start?

It wasn’t a gamble in the way you describe
If you map out business goals and one is I fire tell more achievable, than the others because the competition is less and your capabilities are stronger you will prioritise it every time
It’s exactly what you describe as taking the emotion out. And dont fidget in that cup we had 2 bites of every cherry until the final

If your stock broker at year 1 has achieved your minimum requirements of getting you back to be a global business (UEFA completion) and in second year takes you to the very elite level company whilst also having your best year in 17/41 years you would bite their hand off

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's true. Certainly some who are leaving will be happy to leave. But when Reggie is parading around Bilbao with a pro-Ange banner, it's an assumption I'm OK making (despite my reluctance to make them in general)...

Reggie being a classic TBF

 

[Bullet]

...the truth (IMO - I feel I have to now put that in as a caveat) is, no candidate I have seen mentioned has any more likelihood of success with this specific group of players than Ange. They will not have the X factor buy-in and belief, they will not have done the journey this group have done over the last season, they will have to build trust and confidence in said-appointee's own skillset

A lot of football comes down to player psychology; do they believe they can win, will they run the extra yards, will they stick to the gameplan, are the vibes good, is it a big family and crucially has the manager lost the dressing room.
In all of that Ange is great.
Mainly, he just needs to keep playing 2 deeper midfielders such as Bents/Biss and stop vacating midfield, leaving us wide open to let in goals, with the fullbacks playing striker.

 

[Raziel]

A lot of football comes down to player psychology; do they believe they can win, will they run the extra yards, will they stick to the gameplan, are the vibes good, is it a big family and crucially has the manager lost the dressing room.
In all of that Ange is great.
Mainly, he just needs to keep playing 2 deeper midfielders such as Bents/Biss and stop vacating midfield, leaving us wide open to let in goals, with the fullbacks playing striker.

Win games, players will buy in

- Give Romero the opportunity to have the game in front of him (vs. him foot racing people back to his own goal), he will be elite
- Play that way and your dependency on VDV goes down
- Give Porro cover so he can commit to attacks and he'll do better than TAA (his numbers are already there)
- Give Son/Johnson space to run into, let them come in more central, let Son shoot again
- Manage games, don't require players to sprint continuously in and out of possession

Do those things, win games and let individual players thrive more and they will back whoever is in the seat.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Win games, players will buy in

- Give Romero the opportunity to have the game in front of him (vs. him foot racing people back to his own goal), he will be elite
- Play that way and your dependency on VDV goes down
- Give Porro cover so he can commit to attacks and he'll do better than TAA (his numbers are already there)
- Give Son/Johnson space to run into, let them come in more central, let Son shoot again
- Manage games, don't require players to sprint continuously in and out of possession

Do those things, win games and let individual players thrive more and they will back whoever is in the seat.

So be a completely different coach then.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Really? Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern, Barcelona? what is the list of big clubs sticking with managers who are not delivering in year? Arsenal is probably proving exactly the opposite right now.

- SAF & Wenger created a strange association in UK re length of time in role equal success
- Truth is, success gives you length of time in role, see above, also see Harry & Poch, they got time, because they were delivering.

Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal. Did you just use Chelsea to back your argument of how a big club should conduct itself?!
SAF & Wenger are two of the best examples, and you try to turn it into 'a strange association', because it doesn't suit your argument.
Your last line backs up what I'm saying, Spurs only give a manager time if they hit the ground running, otherwise it's rinse and repeat. Look at all the managers we've rinsed, they've all gone on to be successful elsewhere. Do we give our managers enough time and backing?

 

[Lemonade Money]

I think it's a dangerous assumption to assume he does have "full squad buy in".

You'd soon know if he didn't.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Win games, players will buy in

- Give Romero the opportunity to have the game in front of him (vs. him foot racing people back to his own goal), he will be elite
- Play that way and your dependency on VDV goes down
- Give Porro cover so he can commit to attacks and he'll do better than TAA (his numbers are already there)
- Give Son/Johnson space to run into, let them come in more central, let Son shoot again
- Manage games, don't require players to sprint continuously in and out of possession

Do those things, win games and let individual players thrive more and they will back whoever is in the seat.

You should put your name forward, all these other managers don't know what they are doing.

 

[Gutter Boy]

You'd soon know if he didn't.

22 defeats?

 

[Lemonade Money]

22 defeats?

No, they'd all go and play for Sheffield United.

 

[kb 1984]

Really? Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern, Barcelona? what is the list of big clubs sticking with managers who are not delivering in year? Arsenal is probably proving exactly the opposite right now.

- SAF & Wenger created a strange association in UK re length of time in role equal success
- Truth is, success gives you length of time in role, see above, also see Harry & Poch, they got time, because they were delivering.

What were Poch & Harry delivering they won nothing. In the end the fans wanted them both gone

 

[Mikey10]

Impossible to know
But we can evidentially see and read quotes from many players showing their personal buy in unless they are lying

How often do players say bad things about a manager while that manager is in situ? In particular, why would they be in the press saying it a day or two after a euphoric cup win?

I don’t set any store at all by what players say to the press - in fact, I never really listen to player interviews. There’s been plenty of praising of Ange by the squad over the past few days. It could also be said that there have been signs that some players have been less than fully bought in (e.g. Maddison and Son’s, “It’s always the same plan” bench conversation a few weeks ago; Johnson saying it’s the perfect mic drop moment for Ange to walk away when asked post-match if he thought the manager should stay for next season).

At the end of the day it’s all interpretation. None of us know what they are really thinking, and few in any profession would ever have the balls to openly call out their boss, especially if their words were then going to be splashed across the media.

 

[harr1984]

How often do players say bad things about a manager while that manager is in situ? In particular, why would they be in the press saying it a day or two after a euphoric cup win?

I don’t set any store at all by what players say to the press - in fact, I never really listen to player interviews. There’s been plenty of praising of Ange by the squad over the past few days. It could also be said that there have been signs that some players have been less than fully bought in (e.g. Maddison and Son’s, “It’s always the same plan” bench conversation a few weeks ago; Johnson saying it’s the perfect mic drop moment for Ange to walk away when asked post-match if he thought the manager should stay for next season).

At the end of the day it’s all interpretation. None of us know what they are really thinking, and few in any profession would ever have the balls to openly call out their boss, especially if their words were then going to be splashed across the media.

Agree with every word you said here, and I'd say same applies to managers although people like to twist what the manager says if they don't like them.

But, there is no chance these players would go through as bad a period as we have done in the league for so long and still produce as they did in the EL if they weren't in it for the manager. And there is no chance Levy wouldn't know if there was players not happy, Ange would absolutely be gone by now....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

How often do players say bad things about a manager while that manager is in situ? In particular, why would they be in the press saying it a day or two after a euphoric cup win?

I don’t set any store at all by what players say to the press - in fact, I never really listen to player interviews. There’s been plenty of praising of Ange by the squad over the past few days. It could also be said that there have been signs that some players have been less than fully bought in (e.g. Maddison and Son’s, “It’s always the same plan” bench conversation a few weeks ago; Johnson saying it’s the perfect mic drop moment for Ange to walk away when asked post-match if he thought the manager should stay for next season).

At the end of the day it’s all interpretation. None of us know what they are really thinking, and few in any profession would ever have the balls to openly call out their boss, especially if their words were then going to be splashed across the media.

Body language and actions can say a lot unintentionally too
That’s evidence IMO

 

[Mikey10]

Body language and actions can say a lot unintentionally too
That’s evidence IMO

The body language in most of the 22 league defeats looked bloody awful tbf.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The body language in most of the 22 league defeats looked bloody awful tbf.

Not IMO
The way the players pushed Ange forward many times in many moments says a lot
Look at the body language at United for comparison

 

[glasgowspur]

A lot of football comes down to player psychology; do they believe they can win, will they run the extra yards, will they stick to the gameplan, are the vibes good, is it a big family and crucially has the manager lost the dressing room.
In all of that Ange is great.
Mainly, he just needs to keep playing 2 deeper midfielders such as Bents/Biss and stop vacating midfield, leaving us wide open to let in goals, with the fullbacks playing striker.

Up to the frankfurt game I would have been quite happy to see ange, cutie, maddison, son, Bissouma and a few others go.
Not because they're bad players but because I didn't think they believed or didn't care that much about us winning a trophy.
That changed after the frankfurt game.

We have had Modric, Bale, kane, three generational players (granted not all at the same time), the CB partnership in country, the golden boot winer and I think the golden glove winner as well.
We were or close to top scoring team, has the best defence.
Two of our last three managers are serial winners, winning before and after they left spurs. One of them won two trophies in England after he left us.
The other manager of the three (nuno) has over performed on just about every club he has joined. We gave him three months.

For none of them to have won a trophy at spurs, even the lesser cups, highlights how heavy a burden this drought and the sexy tag has been.

I am keen to see after the EL final was won what the response would be from them.
Is it job done or push on to more success.


I'm sure you'll all be pleased to hear that I'm back work this afternoon so no more long rambling posts for a while .

 

[glasgowspur]

How often do players say bad things about a manager while that manager is in situ? In particular, why would they be in the press saying it a day or two after a euphoric cup win?

I don’t set any store at all by what players say to the press - in fact, I never really listen to player interviews. There’s been plenty of praising of Ange by the squad over the past few days. It could also be said that there have been signs that some players have been less than fully bought in (e.g. Maddison and Son’s, “It’s always the same plan” bench conversation a few weeks ago; Johnson saying it’s the perfect mic drop moment for Ange to walk away when asked post-match if he thought the manager should stay for next season).

At the end of the day it’s all interpretation. None of us know what they are really thinking, and few in any profession would ever have the balls to openly call out their boss, especially if their words were then going to be splashed across the media.

I put no store on what anyone says to media.