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Circus ManUnitus - Erik's At The Wheel

Robspur12 said:
Selective analysis there Jurgen. Klopp has done better in the Champions League but Poch has bettered him so far with his PL finishes.. Surely that means their achievements with Spurs and Liverpool are pretty much equal. Klopp therefore does not have the edge.

It's hard to compare achievements at previous clubs because their previous managerial positions were simply poles apart. I have said previously Poch finishing second ahead of Utd, City, Arsenal, Liverpool matches Klopp bundesliga where his only serious rival was Bayern. However with less resources so far Poch has bettered Klopp each season in the league.
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That's a fair assessment; and i'm one that would struggle to argue with some who would say that Klopp is the better coach overall but that is as good a defence of Poch as anyone could muster tbh. I think Poch has more longevity as a coach at one club, but we shall see
 
Robspur12 said:
Selective analysis there Jurgen. Klopp has done better in the Champions League but Poch has bettered him so far with his PL finishes.. Surely that means their achievements with Spurs and Liverpool are pretty much equal. Klopp therefore does not have the edge.

It's hard to compare achievements at previous clubs because their previous managerial positions were simply poles apart. I have said previously Poch finishing second ahead of Utd, City, Arsenal, Liverpool matches Klopp bundesliga where his only serious rival was Bayern. However with less resources so far Poch has bettered Klopp each season in the league.
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Klopp won back to back titles at a time when the Bundesliga was far more competitive than it is now, multiple teams had won the league in the few years before Dortmund won it. If accept some people dismissing Klopp because of his Liverpool connection if he had only won a cup competition for example but back to back titles playing in the same league as Bayern is not an achievement that should be dismissed lightly.

I take your point about Poch finishing above Klopp but until he wins at least one trophy and does better in Europe I can’t perosnally say he’s the best manager in the league, he needs to prove it at the business end of the season.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Klopp won back to back titles at a time when the Bundesliga was far more competitive than it is now, multiple teams had won the league in the few years before Dortmund won it. If accept some people dismissing Klopp because of his Liverpool connection if he had only won a cup competition for example but back to back titles playing in the same league as Bayern is not an achievement that should be dismissed lightly.

I take your point about Poch finishing above Klopp but until he wins at least one trophy and does better in Europe I can’t perosnally say he’s the best manager in the league, he needs to prove it at the business end of the season.
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Indeed they did, but that was more a reflection that Bayern and Dortmund were not as strong as in previous seasons. Bayern and Dortmund's resources dwarf their competitors whereas as ours are dwarfed by our rivals. Plus there are not 2 money doped teams as well as the traditional behemoths to come up against in the Bundesliga. I believe it is a fair comparison to put Poch's achievements in the PL against Klopp's achievements in the Bundesliga. That is not to say that Klopp's achievement was not superb or that I don't rate him, only that what Poch has achieved with Spurs compares favourably with Dortmund given the resources at their disposal and competitiveness of the 2 leagues

The fairest comparison of course between the two is their achievements in the PL and CL with their current clubs. You could say they are pretty evenly matched, although now Klopp has spent a fortune to build a title winning side compared to Poch.

You keep bringing up Poch's lack of trophies with no context of the clubs he's managed. Discounting the League cup and FA cup for a second as I am sure if he wins either the narrative becomes he has not won a big trophy, do you really believe that Spurs would be winning league titles or Champions Leagues? Or is it that finishing 3-2-3, with the club's highest finishes since the 60s, going a full season unbeaten at home, coming up against 5 teams with resources that blow us out of the water, a pretty big deal in itself? The president of Real and Chairman of Utd think so. Or should they appoint Roberto di Matteo with his Champions League and FA cup trophies? Or perhaps Claudio Ranieri would be a better bet with his recent PL win? Do they have the edge over both Poch and Klopp?

I get you do not rate Poch as highly as others. Nothing wrong with that. It does however feel at times you cannot wait to point out his faults or that you do not give him the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps it's a reaction to over the top praise of him by some fans. You cannot blame fans for liking and rating this guy after what he has given us.

I am sure if United get their man though all Spurs fans will come to appreciate the job he has done.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Mourinho did at least cut his teeth at Uniao de Leiria and Porto. It's Guardiola whose only ever had more resources than his competitors.

Mourinho might do what his mentor van Gaal did though when he went and rebuilt his career by overachieving at a small club with AZ.
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One season, in a nothing league, before taking over the richest club in the division and carrying on from there.

Im not really sure its a particular distinction.
 
Indeed. Its what made his name. 15(?) years ago.

With the richest club in his league.

Since when, he has only operated at the richest clubs in a division, never built anything, developed a player, or lasted more than a few seasons.

Wouldnt it be nice to see him try and operate as a "regular" manager, and see how well he can really do?
 
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