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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

The 1 and a half year contract gave me some doubt form the start, evident one or both were not sure of each other. Did amazing to get us top 4, albeit Arsenal effectively gave it to us.

He may have been part of the problem with his stubbornness but will always be a manager who summed up the problems with the club very well. His rant post Soton summed up what every man and his dog has known over the past 4 years. The club talks the talk but is happy with just Top 4 and not too bothered about trophies.

Good luck to him, had an awful year personally that I wouldn't wish on anyone, hope he now has the time to heal.
 
Sky Sports reporting that Pochettino “wants to assess his options in the summer.”

Doesn't sound like he was waiting by the phone for our call after all.
 
spurs' magna carter said:
The 1 and a half year contract gave me some doubt form the start, evident one or both were not sure of each other. Did amazing to get us top 4, albeit Arsenal effectively gave it to us.

He may have been part of the problem with his stubbornness but will always be a manager who summed up the problems with the club very well. His rant post Soton summed up what every man and his dog has known over the past 4 years. The club is happy with just Top 4 and not too bothered about trophies.

Good luck to him, had an awful year personally that I wouldn't wish on anyone, hope he now has the time to heal.
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Yeah good luck to him and hopefully he takes some real time out to recover from all the personal life goings on.

The football for large parts this season haven’t been good enough. But he leaves with decent a 1.88 PPG, which only the apparently immortal Poch has a better rate than at 1.89 and of course many of the experts on this board who would have a minimum 2.5 PPG record with our amazing squad and their expertise….
 
Mikey10 said:
Sky Sports reporting that Pochettino “wants to assess his options in the summer.”

Doesn't sound like he was waiting by the phone for our call after all.
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Why would he rush to join us, or any other manager?
To deal with the fall out from conte?
To take the flak for not making top four?
Or the ever growing injury list?
Any sensible candidate is going to wait until the summer, see where we finish, see how the players handle contes comments and then make thier pitch for the job.
No need for them to hurry, it's the club that's under pressure, not someone who may or may not be offered a job.
 
I thought Conte did a great job last season and wasn’t massively Conte out.

But this season has been dire and has got worse the longer it’s gone on.

Quite a miracle we’re 4th (for now) given how we’ve been playing.

It’s been a so tedious watching Spurs.

I hope for these last 10 games were able to go out and actually try and score a goal. Try and get on the front foot for a change.

That’s all I ask for. Try and win from the moment the game starts.
 
Mikey10 said:
Sky Sports reporting that Pochettino “wants to assess his options in the summer.”

Doesn't sound like he was waiting by the phone for our call after all.
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If it’s true could mean that. Also could mean he doesn’t feel comfortable with being judged on 10 games with the players.

Poch himself never his he didn’t like us waiting till deadline day to sign players. He wanted a full season with them.

So wouldn’t blame him for deciding right this second isn’t the time
 
Does anyone have any insight into what tactics Stielini might play?

What did he use during his previous managerial stints?

All be it they were with lower division sides in Italy…
 
Raziel said:
This is why it isn't that simple

- Richy (£60M for a squad player), Perisic (a 33 year old on high wages) and Bissouma (a proven PL CM accustomed to playing in a 3 or 4) are 100% Conte signings, he prioritized those signings over a CB, RWB
- Porro is another questionable judgement call (and again 100% Conte). We had Emerson (in much improving form), Doherty (who could play both sides) and a promising youngster in Spence on RWB, and See/Perisic struggling on LWB and a CB setup that needs help, Conte's demand? a £40M+ RWB and punt the cover. In hindsight (and yes, that's unfair), spending that money on a CB, having cover for both sides with Doherty would probably have been smarter (and actually spending some time developing Spence)
- He never embraced the club, he never let anyone forget (to the last day) how much work/gap there was here. He did the whole "I'm dating down, and doing you a favor", that is abuse.
- He didn't try, he didn't adapt, he didn't play one youth/"club" signing
- And the biggest indictment of Conte is last season (without pre-season), without the new players, without time to onboard all of his tactics, using some of the left over counter attack style, the team played better.

To me, Conte did exactly the same as Jose (who got less backing and was unbelievably less toxic), they bought into their own hype. All I need to do is rock up, tell these boys how to be clams/winners and teach them how to play pragmatic football and it will work. Reality is they both got regularly done tactically/motivationally by managers/clubs/players that everyone on this board would scoff at even considering for Spurs.
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Not sure on the signings points - Labelling any buy as a 100% Conte signing seems to negate the fact that we have a DOF in place. Porro would have made a lot more sense if we'd got him in the summer, I'm sure Conte would have rather that than an up and coming RWB that he didn't fancy. The hindsight point I agree with but that's not Conte's fault imo, squad planning is a difficult balance of recognizing what's needed + whats feasible, that's the boardroom, DOF as well as the market in terms of who is available.

Again, how is being honest a bad thing. Him stating we're a long way away from the League title / Champions league is true, Poch said the same but Conte has the actual credentials to know what it is take in a competitive league.

To say he didn't try or liken his honest opinion to abuse is so far off it's unlikely we're going to see eye to eye. Watch any Conte cam and tell me he didn't try. And the man was reputedly very intense in training, meticulous to the last detail. Not trying is usually down to laziness and the guy is anything but lazy, brick even medical advisors couldn't convince him to take a break.

Adaptability/ Flexibility, there's a discussion to be had there but he most definitely played Skipp, which other young players should he have played that were capable of of reaching his standards? It would mean fudge all if we underachieved whilst having the likes of Scarlett, Devine, Parrott running around. There's a feel good factor of seeing youth products come through if they're good enough, like Skipp is, but not playing kids is an odd criticism. We could put in a bunch of kids and have ended up lower than the league position that it took for Poch to get fired.

On the last paragraph, sadly what's been proven with the likes of Jose and Conte, is that the ethos of a winner doesn't fit in with the club and the way it's ran. Conte, like Jose has done, will go on to win something at another club, Spurs will continue to be Spurs unless we can make some real changes. For a supposedly pragmatic team under Conte we scored a fair few goals but the defense this season has been a shambles.

Maybe I'm guilty of jumping on a hype train but I am all for Nagelsman but that's for another thread. I want a fresh start but not a desperate rehash of what didn't work the first time.
 
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spurspinter1 said:
Not sure on the signings points - Labelling any buy as a 100% Conte signing seems to negate the fact that we have a DOF in place. Porro would have made a lot more sense if we'd got him in the summer, I'm sure Conte would have rather that than an up and coming RWB that he didn't fancy. The hindsight point I agree with but that's not Conte's fault imo, squad planning is a difficult balance of recognizing what's needed + whats feasible, that's the boardroom, DOF as well as the market in terms of who is available.

Again, how is being honest a bad thing. Him stating we're a long way away from the League title / Champions league is true, Poch said the same but Conte has the actual credentials to know what it is take in a competitive league.

To say he didn't try or liken his honest opinion to abuse is so far off it's unlikely we're going to see eye to eye. Watch any Conte cam and tell me he didn't try. And the man was reputedly very intense in training, meticulous to the last detail. Not trying is usually down to laziness and the guy is anything but lazy, brick even medical advisors couldn't convince him to take a break.

Adaptability/ Flexibility, there's a discussion to be had there but he most definitely played Skipp, which other young players should he have played that were capable of of reaching his standards? It would mean fudge all if we underachieved whilst having the likes of Scarlett, Devine, Parrott running around. There's a feel good factor of seeing youth products come through if they're good enough, like Skipp is, but not playing kids is an odd criticism. We could put in a bunch of kids and have ended up lower than the league position that it took for Poch to get fired.

On the last paragraph, sadly what's been proven with the likes of Jose and Conte, is that the ethos of a winner doesn't fit in with the club and the way it's ran. Conte, like Jose has done, will go on to win something at another club, Spurs will continue to be Spurs unless we can make some real changes. For a supposedly pragmatic team under Conte we scored a fair few goals but the defense this season has been a shambles.

Maybe I'm guilty of jumping on a hype train but I am all for Nagelsman but that's for another thread. I want a fresh start but not a desperate rehash of what didn't work the first time.
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For a little bit of clarity

- The DoF/club has input, but it's hard to argue that a signing like Perisic or Richi is something the club would do without significant pressure from Conte
- When I say try, I don't mean the guy was lazy, I mean he pushed a mechanism that didn't work, his style/management did not connect with the players and he never once tried to adapt. Basically he failed to acknowledge his approach was failing, and vs. "trying" he just doubled down and when it continued to fail, forced his way out.
- I watch want Conte says and just think, does he really think he's connecting with a sub 30 year old with this call out approach? it's for another generation.

Agree on fresh start, we need to go at it one more time again ..
 
Craig_J said:
I thought Conte did a great job last season and wasn’t massively Conte out.

But this season has been dire and has got worse the longer it’s gone on.

Quite a miracle we’re 4th (for now) given how we’ve been playing.

It’s been a so tedious watching Spurs.

I hope for these last 10 games were able to go out and actually try and score a goal. Try and get on the front foot for a change.

That’s all I ask for. Try and win from the moment the game starts.
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Agreed. Its the style which has led to this as much as anything

I dont watch Spurs with any sense of excitement or anticipation now.

And if I'm not at the game and its not on TV, I dont go through the hassle of finding a str eam

There's plenty more in that boat, and who will (mostly) all come back...but there needs to be some better entertaimment factor
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Conte is the second manager with a fairly decent trophy cabinet to a) leave the club less than two years after his appointment and b) claim our players don't have the right mindset. It does look like things are improving though - as unbelievable as it seems. Under Mourinho, the players downed tools against Dinamo. This time around, the performances were disappointing but the results remained fairly decent or, at least, acceptable. On the flip side, we changed half the squad in-between in the problem is yet to be solved.

There might be some truth in Conte's words that the problem lies with the club as I can't think of someone doing well at their club, coming to Spurs and then doing even better here - at least, not since Pochettino's last season.

It's typical to read posts bricking on the manager on his way out. It's not my thing, personally. The football was painful to watch at times and I grew tired of the the constant drama about his future but there's no doubt that, with the right players, Conte is a very good manager if not a top one. He's had a rough year on a personal level and it's quite possible that he only signed for us in the first place because Paratici badgered him for months. At the end of the day, results-wise, I've seen a lot worse in my time as a Spurs fan.

It's probably the best outcome for all parties but I can't help but think the club should be looking into the players' mindset when they try to sign them, rather than just the price.
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Absolutely this. I don't think the problem is Levy -- apart from a couple of years under Poch (and even then, I don't think Poch was the blameless martyr people make out), he has backed the manager and made signings that a club of our financial abilities would expect. Unlike the financially doped clubs (and ManU), we can't sign half a dozen £50m+ players and hope one of them sticks.

Instead, the club, under Poch and onwards, signed a string of weak-minded players. Those who had the talent but clearly not the fight. Ndombele and Lo Celso are the absolute epitome of this. Just imagine if we'd signed Bruno Fernandes instead of one of those.

Under Paratici, however, things seem to be getting better. Kulu and Bentancur are the obvious ones, but Richi, Sarr and Porro seem to have something about them too. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Conte leaving doesn't make our DOF want to jump ship.
 
Craig_J said:
If it’s true could mean that. Also could mean he doesn’t feel comfortable with being judged on 10 games with the players.

Poch himself never his he didn’t like us waiting till deadline day to sign players. He wanted a full season with them.

So wouldn’t blame him for deciding right this second isn’t the time
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It's best for everyone to have this breathing space.

By the summer we can decide if Paratici is continuing.
1. He might not be able to continue because of his misdemeanours.
2. So a new DofF might be needed.. So being able to select a new DofF at the same time might be a better match.
2. Any new manager might not want to work with him or a DofF. (Eg Poch)
 
spurspinter1 said:
Not sure on the signings points - Labelling any buy as a 100% Conte signing seems to negate the fact that we have a DOF in place. Porro would have made a lot more sense if we'd got him in the summer, I'm sure Conte would have rather that than an up and coming RWB that he didn't fancy. The hindsight point I agree with but that's not Conte's fault imo, squad planning is a difficult balance of recognizing what's needed + whats feasible, that's the boardroom, DOF as well as the market in terms of who is available.

Again, how is being honest a bad thing. Him stating we're a long way away from the League title / Champions league is true, Poch said the same but Conte has the actual credentials to know what it is take in a competitive league.

To say he didn't try or liken his honest opinion to abuse is so far off it's unlikely we're going to see eye to eye. Watch any Conte cam and tell me he didn't try. And the man was reputedly very intense in training, meticulous to the last detail. Not trying is usually down to laziness and the guy is anything but lazy, brick even medical advisors couldn't convince him to take a break.

Adaptability/ Flexibility, there's a discussion to be had there but he most definitely played Skipp, which other young players should he have played that were capable of of reaching his standards? It would mean fudge all if we underachieved whilst having the likes of Scarlett, Devine, Parrott running around. There's a feel good factor of seeing youth products come through if they're good enough, like Skipp is, but not playing kids is an odd criticism. We could put in a bunch of kids and have ended up lower than the league position that it took for Poch to get fired.

On the last paragraph, sadly what's been proven with the likes of Jose and Conte, is that the ethos of a winner doesn't fit in with the club and the way it's ran. Conte, like Jose has done, will go on to win something at another club, Spurs will continue to be Spurs unless we can make some real changes. For a supposedly pragmatic team under Conte we scored a fair few goals but the defense this season has been a shambles.

Maybe I'm guilty of jumping on a hype train but I am all for Nagelsman but that's for another thread. I want a fresh start but not a desperate rehash of what didn't work the first time.
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To hopefully fall somewhere between you and @Raziel....

Up to a point I can empathise with Conte.
When you believe you have a winning mentality, winning tactics, winning system, winning culture and that's been rubber stamped by actual 'winning' you're level of belief in yourself is so high that when it's not working your automatic reaction is it must be other people are failing you. Combine this with the thought that you are more than likely doing 70-80 hour weeks, ie working your arse off, frustration will build and if you're a combustible chap, these moments will occur.

The two problems I have is.
1. He didn't say this to the players in the dressing room first (in fact I don't think he said it to them at all). He chose the 'pain in the arse the rest of the time' media to convey his message. Yes, give them a story let them lap it up. Generous to them, disloyal to his club.
2. It was only partly honest. Absolutely zero self reflection, self awareness. All blame arrows pointed away from Antonio. As I said, he's like that because he can't possibly think anything he was doing was causing the situation. In this case I put very little blame on the layers above him. I think they did their best to mitigate the potential issues you may expect with AC. So much so Conte has barely muttered a grievance beyond 'Club signing'.

The sad truth for him is he is provided with the very best of everything to facilitate his training/coaching regime, and undoubtedly he puts the hours in. He lives and breathes football. Unfortunately that actually counts against him if things aren't working, everything is on his watch. He is (was) the captain of the ship.
 
Gutter Boy said:
3 of them were crap appointments that were doomed from the start. It's just been bad recruitment
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Putting Nuno aside, who was clearly a stop-gap, I really believer that the Jose and Conte appointments were more knee-jerk than well thought out. My theory is that Levy was feeling the pressure from the fans to win a trophy and brought in "win now" managers, believing that's what would have achieved that. Unfortunately, it backfired (you can pick your reasons why). The right move would have been to get a rebuild manager and set up the football operations structure towards that end (should have been done, actually, while Poch was still here). But can you imagine the fan backlash if, after Poch, we went back into "project mode" with the promise of silverware 2-3 years down the line after being in a CL final? I hate to say it, but Arsenal did it right and showed patience in doing it, and is now reaping the rewards.
 
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