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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 78 41.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 111 58.7%
  • Total voters
    189
HarryBreadbap said:
The facts he talks of are facts, whether he likes Ange or not.

Sorry if you don't agree with any of them.
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Also fact is as manger he won a European trophy for the first time in 41 yeas. He also won our first trophy in 17 years. For me that is enough to be given another season. Am I biased absolutely I wanted Ange from the beginning so I am always going to lean his way. The guys in the video will always want Ange gone no matter what.

No need to be sorry discussion is good after all we both want Tottenham to be successful

I wish Daniel & the board would just bite the bullet & make a decision because the longer this goes on the more divided we become.. we should be celebrating not disagreeing over the manager
 
Gutter Boy said:
Credit where credit is due - he's a class A gaslighter for sure
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Definition of gaslighting

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation where someone attempts to make another person doubt their own sanity, memory, or perception of reality. It's a way to control someone by eroding their confidence and sense of truth, often leaving them confused and dependent on the abuser's perspective.

  • Definition:
    Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic that involves intentionally making someone question their own beliefs, memories, or perceptions of events.

Not sure Ange is gaslighting if he is he is failing miserably. unless you think everyone wanting him to stay is somehow under his mind control.
fudge maybe he is inside my head manipulating me into writing this.
 
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DubaiSpur said:
True. But the previous criticism of him was that he only had one, extremely porous tactic.

I don't think it's fair to criticise him for changing it up - it's what we wanted him to do, after all.

It's that flexibility, that willingness to change his long-held principles, that I think augurs well for the upcoming season, if he ends up staying. Ultimately I think that he's being judged as the finished article because of his age and his own bullish self-confidence - when, the reality is that he's still new and learning the ropes at this level, even at 59.

He's never competed in a league as intense as the PL, against the best managers and most expensive squads in world football. Whether he admits it or not, I suspect he's learned a lot about his own beliefs, the art of management and his own players over the course of the last year, and tactical switches like against Frankfurt/Bodo/United are proof of him taking those learnings on board.

I think if he stays, he switches up his coaching staff to bring in some specialists (especially with Mason probably leaving), and we see a more controlled version of his tactics in Season 3, with some reversion to prime Mourinhoball in the big games.
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Does it augur well for the upcoming season? There's definitely been a change, but:
- we brought Ange in, as we were fed up of managers conceding possession and adopting a low block to grind results out.
- Would we be willing to tolerate a whole season of games like the last few Europa games and the Brighton first half (forget the result as second half reflected the 3 day bender half the squad have been on - but certainly seemed to be attempting to adopt the sit back, concede possession and hang on to a lead tactic)?
- Would such tactics be sustainable against better quality opposition?
- Who even is Ange Postecoglu and should we be 2 seasons in with a manager and entering a 3rd season likely to be "transitional" as hes still trying to find the right formula for being competitive in the league?
 
DubaiSpur said:
True. But the previous criticism of him was that he only had one, extremely porous tactic.

I don't think it's fair to criticise him for changing it up - it's what we wanted him to do, after all.

It's that flexibility, that willingness to change his long-held principles, that I think augurs well for the upcoming season, if he ends up staying. Ultimately I think that he's being judged as the finished article because of his age and his own bullish self-confidence - when, the reality is that he's still new and learning the ropes at this level, even at 59.

He's never competed in a league as intense as the PL, against the best managers and most expensive squads in world football. Whether he admits it or not, I suspect he's learned a lot about his own beliefs, the art of management and his own players over the course of the last year, and tactical switches like against Frankfurt/Bodo/United are proof of him taking those learnings on board.

I think if he stays, he switches up his coaching staff to bring in some specialists (especially with Mason probably leaving), and we see a more controlled version of his tactics in Season 3, with some reversion to prime Mourinhoball in the big games.
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What you say here is so relevant. We talked about Ange-ball, whatever that is, for a big part of Ange's tenure. What we've seen recently is now being labelled as Ange-wall. A different system that is much more defensively tighter but quite uninspiring going forward. Yes, we won the EL final but there is no way we can want that football every game. It barely even made the counter attacking category. It was mostly bus parking or rope-a-dope. We shouldn't want to ride our luck in that way. Our players are better than that.

The biggest question mark against Ange is about what tactical system(s) can he deliver for the 25/26 season. As fans, we have a right to be so nervous about that question. Ange has really struggled to find a system that works and can be recreated by the players each week. It's why we have so many consistency issues.

I do like the comment about a new coach on the team as well. That could be a real enabler for Ange and cover some cracks.
 
Muttley said:
What you say here is so relevant. We talked about Ange-ball, whatever that is, for a big part of Ange's tenure. What we've seen recently is now being labelled as Ange-wall.
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Labels, like music genre tags, are generally for people who cannot be bothered to take in the nuances and just want to shove things in easy-to-define boxes. Is Iggy Pop 'alternative, punk, metal, rock'? Truth is he's all of them, always has been, always will be, and depending on the climate and context, can up the ante a little more in some directions than others yet is always him.

Muttley said:
A different system that is much more defensively tighter but quite uninspiring going forward. Yes, we won the EL final but there is no way we can want that football every game. It barely even made the counter attacking category. It was mostly bus parking or rope-a-dope. We shouldn't want to ride our luck in that way. Our players are better than that.
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Had he not, he'd have been pilloried as 'wreckless can-only-play-one-way'. Without his three most creative midfielders, I was absolutely delighted he trusted his first-choice back 5 to do a job that generally, that first choice back 5 has been pretty good at - defending- especially with modified tactics. I doubt you'd see that out of the contet of winning three all-or-nothing games when dealing with (more) injuries.


Muttley said:
The biggest question mark against Ange is about what tactical system(s) can he deliver for the 25/26 season. As fans, we have a right to be so nervous about that question. Ange has really struggled to find a system that works and can be recreated by the players each week. It's why we have so many consistency issues.

I do like the comment about a new coach on the team as well. That could be a real enabler for Ange and cover some cracks.
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And we're back there. Consistency issues. Without any mention as to why those have existed over the last two years.

You certainly do have the right to be nervous. I suppose my response would be why would you want to live in that past, when you've seen something which 'could' be a genuine catalyst for this group of players moving forward, as well as the manager? It comes down to whether you trust that to have legs or not I suppose...truth be told (of course) none of it matters because it is going to be what it is LOL...
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Does it augur well for the upcoming season? There's definitely been a change, but:
- we brought Ange in, as we were fed up of managers conceding possession and adopting a low block to grind results out.
- Would we be willing to tolerate a whole season of games like the last few Europa games and the Brighton first half (forget the result as second half reflected the 3 day bender half the squad have been on - but certainly seemed to be attempting to adopt the sit back, concede possession and hang on to a lead tactic)?
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No, we wouldn't. I suspect he wouldn't either.


Silly McSilly Face said:
- Would such tactics be sustainable against better quality opposition?
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I do not believe he is interested in employing them full-time.

Silly McSilly Face said:
- Who even is Ange Postecoglu and should we be 2 seasons in with a manager and entering a 3rd season likely to be "transitional" as hes still trying to find the right formula for being competitive in the league?
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Given the root and branch job he had to do on arrival, plus our imbalanced recruitment policy among other admin errors, I'd say it's passably understandable, with the caveat that I would expect this third season to gel pretty quickly given the buy in/belief/return to fitness of several key players/no international tournament flogging/CL standard signings we must surely now make...
 
Just seems strange to me going in to a 3rd season with so many big questions that need answering.

Are we going to adapt our day to day tactics? This is something we absolutely need to do - are we actually confident it'll happen and is it a priority of the manager to find a new way of playing suitable to the level of football?
If we do, will it be effective?
Is Ange-wall the alternative tactic or was it a needs-must to get a trophy over the line? Good to see that as a weapon in our armoury, but I'm not sure it's palatable as a regular approach to games - there needs to be balance between defense & attack.
Can we manage 2 games a week without sacrificing one of the competitons? We kinda managed during the group stage of EL but we won't be able to rotate to the same level in the CL.
Can we pick up results without our 'first choice back 5'?
Will our injury record improve or will we continue to have unexplainable luck for the 3rd year running?


Most of the talk regarding going in to next season seems to be around the EL win (obviously so tbf) and the buy-in that will bring, but does that answer any of the questions above? Especially when Ange himself has stated previously that having success in the way he wants to play is what gives the players confidence/faith in him & the approach. Does success with Ange-wall provide that same buy-in overall even though it was an alternative tactic?
 
thfcsteff said:
You certainly do have the right to be nervous. I suppose my response would be why would you want to live in that past, when you've seen something which 'could' be a genuine catalyst for this group of players moving forward, as well as the manager? It comes down to whether you trust that to have legs or not I suppose...truth be told (of course) none of it matters because it is going to be what it is LOL...
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I'll be very nervous in any outcome to be fair. It's not living the past. It's about learning from this 2-year recent past and using that to project forwards. Apparently, we couldn't learn anything when we had injuries. Then when we got through to EL quarter-finals we weren't allowed to learn anything in league games. Just like last season, we couldn't learn anything when the boys were in Africa or Asia, or any game after the Chelsea game for a few months. We haven't been allowed to learn about either of the 2 seasons that we've conceded over 60 games a season.

I am of course being sarcastic. The reality is though that we do learn something in every game especially those of us who put football smack bang in the middle. Even Brighton after a 3 day bender. lol - that set piece defending.

I won't write any more as #BillyYiddo just nailed it.
 
thfcsteff said:
At least you're consistent.
You also called him a 'piece of sh-it' which is frankly a total disgrace.
You don't know the man at all, yet you levelled that at him.
It is very, very hard for me to control myself from saying what I really want to say to you regarding the way you express yourself with regards to him; I will say that I have a little chuckle whenever I read this sort of thing from you, knowing that the fact he WON A MAJOR TROPHY must hurt you given how concrete your stance on his 'inevitable failure' was pre-Final.
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I can't help wondering who you mix with, and ask myself if you have ever been in a pub or spent time with someone from the working class. Ange is rude, he's snappy, and far too defensive. He says he takes responsibility, then blames every factor for is terrible record apart from his lack of tactics and organisation. There are lots of people I would like to spend time with, Ange certainly isn't one of them. From the video posted earlier here are some facts you choose to ignore

1. We have won 6 out of 19 home games this season
2. We have lost 10 home games
3. We have won 1 game in the last 12 and that was against Southampton
4. Conceded the 2nd most amount of goals in any one season ever
5. Last season was our lowest premiership finish
6. We finished 10 pts behind Everton and Palace
7. We lost 22 games, which is the most since 1935, and that's when we played 42 games a season
8. We averaged 1 pt a game, which in previous seasons could have got us relegated.

This is the man you want to take us forward
 
veryoldspur said:
I can't help wondering who you mix with, and ask myself if you have ever been in a pub or spent time with someone from the working class. Ange is rude, he's snappy, and far too defensive. He says he takes responsibility, then blames every factor for is terrible record apart from his lack of tactics and organisation. There are lots of people I would like to spend time with, Ange certainly isn't one of them. From the video posted earlier here are some facts you choose to ignore

1. We have won 6 out of 19 home games this season
2. We have lost 10 home games
3. We have won 1 game in the last 12 and that was against Southampton
4. Conceded the 2nd most amount of goals in any one season ever
5. Last season was our lowest premiership finish
6. We finished 10 pts behind Everton and Palace
7. We lost 22 games, which is the most since 1935, and that's when we played 42 games a season
8. We averaged 1 pt a game, which in previous seasons could have got us relegated.

This is the man you want to take us forward
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Facts we won the UEFA cup after 41 years a trophy after 17 years & are in the champions league next year. I believe like others that alone deserves another season.
 
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If he is going to stay then they need to bring in a proper coach to replace Mason when he goes to WBA. There are only so many “The lines do not move” training drills any team can cope with.
 
veryoldspur said:
I can't help wondering who you mix with, and ask myself if you have ever been in a pub or spent time with someone from the working class. Ange is rude, he's snappy, and far too defensive. He says he takes responsibility, then blames every factor for is terrible record apart from his lack of tactics and organisation. There are lots of people I would like to spend time with, Ange certainly isn't one of them. From the video posted earlier here are some facts you choose to ignore

1. We have won 6 out of 19 home games this season
2. We have lost 10 home games
3. We have won 1 game in the last 12 and that was against Southampton
4. Conceded the 2nd most amount of goals in any one season ever
5. Last season was our lowest premiership finish
6. We finished 10 pts behind Everton and Palace
7. We lost 22 games, which is the most since 1935, and that's when we played 42 games a season
8. We averaged 1 pt a game, which in previous seasons could have got us relegated.

This is the man you want to take us forward
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Oh dear. Trying a 'class attack' are you? Pathetic...I grew up on a council estate. I got absolutely fudge all given to me by anyone and made my way in life solo and without a single handout from anyone. My father worked for the council, my mother in an office. You can apologise to me now for yet another pathetic assumption. BTW, yes, I have been in a pub before. I even had a conversation in one. Imagine...

I choose to ignore nothing. I take everything onboard. You, on the other hand, are ignoring the potential consequences of winning our first European trophy in 41 years. There are no rights and wrongs, yet you absolutelly refuse to accept that.

As for 'rude' after what you've said about him (a man you don't know) I think that's pretty rich.
 
kb 1984 said:
Facts we won the UEFA cup after 41 years a trophy after 17 years & are in the champions league next year. I believe like others that alone deserves another season.
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Did you say that about Ramos? Ange will be sacked by October after a poor start, then we play catch up, so why is Levy wasting time?
 
thfcsteff said:
Oh dear. Trying a 'class attack' are you? Pathetic...I grew up on a council estate. I got absolutely fudge all given to me by anyone and made my way in life solo and without a single handout from anyone. My father worked for the council, my mother in an office. You can apologise to me now for yet another pathetic assumption. BTW, yes, I have been in a pub before. I even had a conversation in one. Imagine...

I choose to ignore nothing. I take everything onboard. You, on the other hand, are ignoring the potential consequences of winning our first European trophy in 41 years. There are no rights and wrongs, yet you absolutelly refuse to accept that.

As for 'rude' after what you've said about him (a man you don't know) I think that's pretty rich.
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I have never met Starmer, Putin, Hitler, or Sadiq Khan either, and you should hear what I say about them. The way Ange behaves behind the camera is a complete embarrassment to the club. It was great winning the EL, but in reality all we had to do was beat a half decent Frankfurt to do it
 
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