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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 78 41.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 111 58.7%
  • Total voters
    189
RigorMortis said:
It’s the reason why many are conflicted over this, myself included.

The Europa League win was one of my greatest nights as a Spurs fan ( the only reason it wasn’t the greatest is because I watched it at home with a cup of coffee and then showered and went to work which was a bit surreal, the others have been in person)

I also felt some of the criticism of Ange became over the top and personal and that culminated in that reference to him as a clown which was not only insulting but also astonishing in its timing given it was right before the final.

I also respected his personal journey and its culmination, as a father of three boys, it bought a tear to my eyes when. I saw him hug his boys.

I also get that the players buy into him.

There’s no doubt in my mind he deserves a second chance.

But as I said earlier, I think it’s the wrong decision from the long term perspective of the club to give him that second chance.

I’m not going to go into my reservations around how we tackled the Europa and wether that’s sustainable long term, I’m sure some here will take offence to that without understanding that you can be critical without diminishing the achievement.

But my overall view of his managerial tenure has been that it has been poor and I just don’t see given everything we have seen, his comments post Europa as well, how we can entrust him with the league and CL given the evidence so far.

Having said that I will be comfortable with either decision because I see the rationale behind it and ultimately for me I just hope we move forward regardless of who the manager is.
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Amen. Well put. I think this basically covers my position as well.

It's lovely to read that from Kulusevski. What I wouldnt give to be a fly on the wall in our dressing pre and post games.
 
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ricky2tricky4city said:
I can never dance with the transactional argument. I love the club, and much like life with my wife, theyll be ups and downs. BUT even stripping out all the emotional stuff that locks you in, and looking at it from that transactional pov...as I said I think this club does try it's very best within its constraints, I don't feel for one moment they're ripping me off. For sure, if I was a United fan I'd be fuming... they're no better than Thames Water.

Cheeky question though....is £1500 worth a UEFA Cup?.
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That depends on your perspective. I would say no, although I appreciate people think otherwise. For me the misery of losing week after week has made the season a failure, not a success. There are those who said before the start of the campaign they would take a trophy and finish 17th position, I have never been one of them. Would I have swapped last season for one of the many when Poch got us top four but never won anything, of course I wouldn't. In reality we should be getting both, because the size of our club and our net spend justifies it
 
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tommysvr said:
I just can't take this seriously. He won a European trophy, on top of everything else he's won. How is he "not very good?"
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22 losses in the league, literally the most by any team that hasn't been relegated, the worse by any Spurs team ever?

Beaten/doubled by absolute dross in the league, same mistakes over and over.

His success (and kudos for the achievement) has literally come when we can only play a certain group of players and abandon every principle of his system.
 
Raziel said:
Like I said mate, I get, but in addition to the tired, no prepared, whatever caveat, it was same old mistakes.

Somebody published the numbers at end of season when VDV/Romero play vs not, basically take one of the two out and our results get worse by about a third, take both out and it's about a half. Guess what, we aren't going to have both of them always available, just like we won't always have Deki or whoever, the system operates too much on the edge.
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You are indeed correct. Our system (or lack of it) depends purely on a 100% fit squad. That lot up the road had more injuries than us and finished 2nd. I would also point out we were as poor when the players came back. The team is poorly managed, and that's down to one person. He will be given the start of next season, get sacked, then we play catch up for the next six months
 
veryoldspur said:
That depends on your perspective. I would say no, although I appreciate people think otherwise. For me the misery of losing week after week has made the season a failure, not a success. There are those who said before the start of the campaign they would take a trophy and finish 17th position, I have never been one of them. Would I have swapped last season for one of the many when Poch got us top four but never won anything, of course I would. In reality we should be getting both, because the size of our club and our net spend justifies it
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I just don't understand this.
I still think sacking Poch was wrong (personally) and I'd love to have seen Poch get the luck his football deserved. But it didn't happen. Why live in that space, and deny yourself what just happened? I honestly don't get it.
 
thfcsteff said:
I just don't understand this.
I still think sacking Poch was wrong (personally) and I'd love to have seen Poch get the luck his football deserved. But it didn't happen. Why live in that space, and deny yourself what just happened? I honestly don't get it.
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That was a typo, I should have said "wouldn't, NOT would. I am still buzzing from the win, but the question is how we move forward, and I think if anyone believes Ange is the man to make us better, they are kidding themselves. We won the league cup under Ramos, look what happened next
 
Raziel said:
22 losses in the league, literally the most by any team that hasn't been relegated, the worse by any Spurs team ever?

Beaten/doubled by absolute dross in the league, same mistakes over and over.

His success (and kudos for the achievement) has literally come when we can only play a certain group of players and abandon every principle of his system.
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One scruffy goal in the final is making people think Ange is the man. If VDV hadn't of made that clearance, we probably would have lost and Ange would have gone now. I don't believe everyone is looking at the bigger picture. They want Ange rewarded for the little he achieved, not punished for his failures and obvious flaws. It's so blatantly obvious he isn't up to the job, yet people want him to stay. Honestly, I'm flummoxed
 
Raziel said:
Ange chose, he bet the house on it (he stated certain groups in club were not in agreement), and 100% credit to him, he won that bet.

The issue is, 12th place and EL win, he would be signing a fudging extension to his contract, but that's not what happened, 22 losses, 17th place shows some combination of inability to manage multiple fronts (will be worse next year with CL) and not the greatest judgement and/or alignment with expectations.
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I know it seems like I'm being argumentative (!!! LOL - I'm not! LOL) but again I find myself agreeing that if there were no issues he'd have his contract extension, but disagreeing with the last line.
I feel absolutely sure that Levy's remit was (in order) Champions League football, trophy. When at the start of Feb Hotspur Way still resembled a football mash unit, Postecoglu saw the path of least resistence which happened to kill two birds with one stone. He took aim, fired, and achieved it. Truthfully, I think it has given Levy a massive issue as I think he had already said goodbye in his mind but now is fearful of the PR storm which 'could' blow back at him. Unenviable position indeed.
 
thfcsteff said:
Truthfully, I think it has given Levy a massive issue as I think he had already said goodbye in his mind but now is fearful of the PR storm which 'could' blow back at him. Unenviable position indeed.
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I agree with that totally, but in reality we all know Ange really isn't up to the job, and by winning a trophy doesn't make him a good manager. Remember Ramos?
 
thfcsteff said:
Ange is brave, and he makes you brave. He doesn’t say a lot, but when he speaks, we can listen for hours. You can tell that he’s been through a lot, and he often talks about what he learned from his father. He is different from any other coach I’ve had. Everybody talks about tactics and winning, and that’s good, but with Ange it means a little bit more, because it’s about you as a person. It’s about you as a man and what you believe in. ⁠
Ange says, “I don’t care if we lose, because everyone loses in life. If we lose, we’re going to lose on our terms. Never go away from being you.”
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That interview from Kulu definitely shows the difference between these very young players and a lot of the rest of us fans and media. It's actually quite endearing. As you get older you tend to lose the ability to be wowed so easily by words. You've got a lot of t-shirts in your lifetime. Therefore, it takes a deeper level of presence or charisma to convince you. At his tender age, Kulu won't be seeing these layers that we regularly discuss on here. The journo's certainly don't eat out of his hand like the players do.

It's good the players do though, and perhaps an endorsement that Ange should modify his communications for the external world. We've heard all the stories about his dad. We care more about why the ball keeps hitting our net at an alarming frequency. We need the football conversation in the next phase and that includes the journos.
 
Gazza said:
Read what you have written and put it into context … it’s not just the Brighton game it’s the form of the team and his mismanagement since that Chelsea game after over a season and a half ago.
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Context? The only fudging context that matters about the Brighton game is that the squad had been on a 3 day bender because Ange and the team delivered our first trophy in 17 years.

Brighton has no business in the discussion about Ange's future.
 
tommysvr said:
Context? The only fudging context that matters about the Brighton game is that the squad had been on a 3 day bender before.
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“fudging Context”

There were 21 defeats prior that would colour peoples views , without even looking at the poor second half of last season. Thats “fudging Context”
 
djp82 said:
“fudging Context”

There were 21 defeats prior that would colour peoples views , without even looking at the poor second half of last season. Thats “fudging Context”
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Right. So why even mention Brighton then? It clearly didn't matter, and it's only people like you who bring it up as just another stick to beat Ange with. People who hate him so much that they forget the trophy he delivered 3 days earlier to complain about a match played with 17 hangovers.
 
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