Andros Townsend

[DTA]

Or rather he has improved in his recent performances?

I'm a fan of his. Not because he is world beater he isn't, he has talent, but even if you say he doesn't improve he is still useful to have in the squad, and as a spurs fan he may be happy with that, if he is then I would be happy to keep him. If he does improved e that's great for us, if he doesn't he still worthy of a squad place and some playing time, especially considering our other option hasn't performed any better (lamela).

 

[scaramanga]

Don't you think his recent performances have improved?

Or rather he has improved in his recent performances?

I'm a fan of his. Not because he is world beater he isn't, he has talent, but even if you say he doesn't improve he is still useful to have in the squad, and as a spurs fan he may be happy with that, if he is then I would be happy to keep him. If he does improved e that's great for us, if he doesn't he still worthy of a squad place and some playing time, especially considering our other option hasn't performed any better (lamela).

I think he's managed to stop shooting from all over the pitch - that's a great start. That seems like a very limited fix to a far larger problem though.

It seems as though Poch has managed to drill not shooting into Townsend, not taught him to make the correct decision. I still don't see any evidence of him learning any decision making skills, which has always been my problem with him.

Only concerning yourself with current performances between Townsend and the alternatives (essentially only Lamela) is working on a fairly short-term basis. Personally I think Lamela has been better but I can understand that others who prefer a different style of football would see it differently. Problem is, all but the most blinkered fans would probably agree that Lamela's ceiling is much higher and that getting splinters in his arse whilst watching Townsend running at the corner flag is probably not the best way of ensuring that he achieves that potential with us.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Great squad player - probably not good enough for first team - only there due to poor performance of others.

He cares about the club which is a bonus.

 

[braineclipse]

A free kick is a dead ball too. So to an extent then, might Eriksen's goals from free kicks be taken out? Or at least, should they maybe be factored in that stat somehow or in some way. In a discussion, should it be a consideration. Could it be in the conversation. In which case, Eriksen might fall even further behind Chadli (and Townsend) in that particular stat being discussed (nobody had mentioned Chadli yet).

Also, back in the day, were you an advocate of Soldado's penalties being taken out of his 'evaluations', so to speak? I recall some opposition to that at the time.

Looking at goals scored excluding penalties is fairly common as it adds a bit of context to a stat, particularly when talking about a small sample size. As it was with Soldado.

I have seen set pieces being factored out of assists or goals stats occasionally, and sometimes it's interesting, but usually so it's very different to looking at goals excluding penalties.

To me though attempting to equate those two is a bit absurd, for obvious reasons. Don't remember that being attempted when Soldado was being discussed, but that might just be my memory failing me.

I think he's managed to stop shooting from all over the pitch - that's a great start. That seems like a very limited fix to a far larger problem though.

It seems as though Poch has managed to drill not shooting into Townsend, not taught him to make the correct decision. I still don't see any evidence of him learning any decision making skills, which has always been my problem with him.

Only concerning yourself with current performances between Townsend and the alternatives (essentially only Lamela) is working on a fairly short-term basis. Personally I think Lamela has been better but I can understand that others who prefer a different style of football would see it differently. Problem is, all but the most blinkered fans would probably agree that Lamela's ceiling is much higher and that getting splinters in his arse whilst watching Townsend running at the corner flag is probably not the best way of ensuring that he achieves that potential with us.

Agreed. Still a long way to go with Townsend. If Poch thinks it's possible though I will continue to attempt to be patient (and often fail as I find Townsend very frustrating to watch at times).

Limiting his shooting is a good first step. A great next step would be if he could start figuring out when to quickly release the ball and when to hang on to it and take people on. And some more structure to his pressing play.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think he's managed to stop shooting from all over the pitch - that's a great start. That seems like a very limited fix to a far larger problem though.

It seems as though Poch has managed to drill not shooting into Townsend, not taught him to make the correct decision. I still don't see any evidence of him learning any decision making skills, which has always been my problem with him.

Only concerning yourself with current performances between Townsend and the alternatives (essentially only Lamela) is working on a fairly short-term basis. Personally I think Lamela has been better but I can understand that others who prefer a different style of football would see it differently. Problem is, all but the most blinkered fans would probably agree that Lamela's ceiling is much higher and that getting splinters in his arse whilst watching Townsend running at the corner flag is probably not the best way of ensuring that he achieves that potential with us.

I don't think anyone would argue the Lamela has more potential than Townsend. And I like to think I have been patient myself, but how long do we keep putting up with his poor/mediocre performances in the hope that he comes good? I think that's why Poch has given him a rest for a few games. Townsend is hardly pulling up any trees either so I'm sure Lamela will get his chance again before the end of the season. You can make a case for both of them starting or being benched.

 

[DTA]

I think he's managed to stop shooting from all over the pitch - that's a great start. That seems like a very limited fix to a far larger problem though.

It seems as though Poch has managed to drill not shooting into Townsend, not taught him to make the correct decision. I still don't see any evidence of him learning any decision making skills, which has always been my problem with him.

Only concerning yourself with current performances between Townsend and the alternatives (essentially only Lamela) is working on a fairly short-term basis. Personally I think Lamela has been better but I can understand that others who prefer a different style of football would see it differently. Problem is, all but the most blinkered fans would probably agree that Lamela's ceiling is much higher and that getting splinters in his arse whilst watching Townsend running at the corner flag is probably not the best way of ensuring that he achieves that potential with us.

I haven't seen much evidence that Lamela will definitely make it to a high level here (in the premiership)... Apart from his work rate, he really doesn't have any oustanding attributes.... And I would be open to an upgrade in that position period. But even with that upgrade I would be happy with tounsend as a squad option.... And if he would be happy with that I don't see the issue, if we could get 15 -20 million back for Lamela and get that upgrade it makes sense to me.

Lamela may go on to dominate for another team... And if he does good luck to him, but I doubt that he would be willing to sit around for long as a squad player... So for that reason tousend for me is the better fit.... Even if arguably they are bothnot good enough for a nailed on starting place.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think he's managed to stop shooting from all over the pitch - that's a great start. That seems like a very limited fix to a far larger problem though.

It seems as though Poch has managed to drill not shooting into Townsend, not taught him to make the correct decision. I still don't see any evidence of him learning any decision making skills, which has always been my problem with him.

Only concerning yourself with current performances between Townsend and the alternatives (essentially only Lamela) is working on a fairly short-term basis. Personally I think Lamela has been better but I can understand that others who prefer a different style of football would see it differently. Problem is, all but the most blinkered fans would probably agree that Lamela's ceiling is much higher and that getting splinters in his arse whilst watching Townsend running at the corner flag is probably not the best way of ensuring that he achieves that potential with us.

Personally I'm not sure that a player who is desperately one footed, always has to completely stop to receive the ball and only seems to be able to beat a player on one side has a particularly high ceiling. Granted Lamela takes a decent corner and runs around a lot, but I was hoping for a lot more from our 26 million pound record signing. I don't think there is much between Lamela and Towsend in terms of effectiveness at the moment and I haven't really seen much that suggests Lamela's ceiling is significantly higher than Townsend's either.

 

[Sandman]

You could say Townsend is more effective. He has way more shots than Lamela, who cannot seem to work an opening to even get a shot. Townsend may sky most of them over the bar but Lamela is not even getting a shot off. Lamela works pretty hard, but also makes some dodgy tackles. Townsend has the raw physical abilities of Bale. But he does not have the calmness or thought patterns of bale it seems. Lamela looks like a skillful player who cannot adapt to the pace of the premier league at all. Im still hoping. But now that even poch has dropped him I am worried.

 

[sc25]

I haven't seen much evidence that Lamela will definitely make it to a high level here (in the premiership)... Apart from his work rate, he really doesn't have any oustanding attributes.... And I would be open to an upgrade in that position period. But even with that upgrade I would be happy with tounsend as a squad option.... And if he would be happy with that I don't see the issue, if we could get 15 -20 million back for Lamela and get that upgrade it makes sense to me.

Lamela may go on to dominate for another team... And if he does good luck to him, but I doubt that he would be willing to sit around for long as a squad player... So for that reason tousend for me is the better fit.... Even if arguably they are bothnot good enough for a nailed on starting place.

You make some good points, as usual. Keeping Townsend another season would be an easy decision for me. He's likely on a reasonable salary, and we can evaluate him again at the end of next season. And yes, if we could/should buy someone better in the summer I'd be all for that. And if we do, I think you might be right...such a move might dovetail better with Townsend than it would Lamela, for a number of reasons.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Problem is, all but the most blinkered fans would probably agree that Lamela's ceiling is much higher and that getting splinters in his arse whilst watching Townsend running at the corner flag is probably not the best way of ensuring that he achieves that potential with us.

I would imagine that at the beginning of the season, you would have been tagged a ultra-blinkered fan if you had said that Harry Kane's ceiling was much higher than Soldado's, even with his underwhelming first season. Sure... Lamela's Roma performances make Townsend look like a Sunday pub player; but then so do Soldado's Valencia goals. However what I am interested in is what they do in our colours. Other than a Rabona, what has Lamela done for two seasons in a Spurs shirt that can make anyone state that his ceiling is stratospheric compared to any other player in the team, Townsend included.

And why do you think that he us getting splinters in his arse? Do you imagine that Poch thinks he deserves to be playing but is pushing some agenda against him? So if not that, isn't the only other reason because he does not think he is good enough - at least at the moment - and other players (such a s Townsend) are better options?

 

[sc25]

Well, it could be that Poch hasn't seen this:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/more-evidence-our-memory-stinks/

 

[scaramanga]

I would imagine that at the beginning of the season, you would have been tagged a ultra-blinkered fan if you had said that Harry Kane's ceiling was much higher than Soldado's, even with his underwhelming first season. Sure... Lamela's Roma performances make Townsend look like a Sunday pub player; but then so do Soldado's Valencia goals.

At the beginning of the season nobody could have judged Kane in a first team role as he'd barely had any time to show his ability. Townsend has had plenty of time and shown nothing.

However what I am interested in is what they do in our colours. Other than a Rabona, what has Lamela done for two seasons in a Spurs shirt that can make anyone state that his ceiling is stratospheric compared to any other player in the team, Townsend included.

Well Lamela has done next to nothing for us and Townsend has done significantly less. If we are to judge themember then we have to rely on other data.

And why do you think that he us getting splinters in his arse? Do you imagine that Poch thinks he deserves to be playing but is pushing some agenda against him? So if not that, isn't the only other reason because he does not think he is good enough - at least at the moment - and other players (such a s Townsend) are better options?

You do realise it's entirely possible for Poch to get stuff wrong right?

Even more likely is that Lamela's getting a rest or having pressure taken off.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

At the beginning of the season nobody could have judged Kane in a first team role as he'd barely had any time to show his ability. Townsend has had plenty of time and shown nothing.

Despite having shown nothing, he still gets picked by England and was also on the starting 11 for what was arguably our most important game of the season. Are both managers complete idiots?

Well Lamela has done next to nothing for us and Townsend has done significantly less. If we are to judge themember then we have to rely on other data.

I never said that Townsend was better than Lamela; it was you that made the "blinkered" quote which can just as well be responded with a reply that only the most blinkered can claim that Lamela has done anything in two seasons to remotely suggest he will be here by the end of the next two seasons - let alone have been a success in them.
TBH I am no particular fan of either player and can't wait to see young Pritchard in that RMF position come next season. The only reason I replied to your post is that, to me, it seems ridiculous to paint Townsend as the villain and Lamela as the hero - especially one with a stratospheric ceiling in the Premiership. Both have been underwhelming but - as pointed out above - at least Townsend gets into a position to shoot; Lamela huffs and puffs but the house does not budge one inch.

You do realise it's entirely possible for Poch to get stuff wrong right?
Even more likely is that Lamela's getting a rest or having pressure taken off.

Two words: Occam's Razor

 

[billyiddo]

Without wanting to really get involved in the debate you're having - Re you're last point about Townsend getting in to shooting positions - he's had three shots inside the area this season - that doesn't strike me as a player getting in to shooting positions...

(In fact both players have the same rating per 90 minutes for shots inside the area - funny how sometimes what happens on the pitch doesn't marry up with what you percieve to be the reality - in this case neither player is better than the other at getting in to shooting positions, yet you have seem to think Townsend is better than Lamela in this regard)

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Had Lamela scored the swansea goal it would have been a sign that it was the coming of the new Maradona...

Townsend is still young is developing and is obviously listening as seems to be far less selfish. Lamela has done absolutely nothing to warrant a starting place at the moment. Until he does the conversation is pointless

 

[billyiddo]

Had Lamela scored the swansea goal it would have been a sign that it was the coming of the new Maradona...

Townsend is still young is developing and is obviously listening as seems to be far less selfish. Lamela has done absolutely nothing to warrant a starting place at the moment. Until he does the conversation is pointless

He's done as much as his competition (if not more) and i've yet to see anything conclusive which says otherswise.

In terms of creativity (key passes/chance created etc) and pressing (winning the ball back/interceptions etc) he's comfortably in front of Townsend who has a better goal scoring record - but both are poor in that regard ultimately.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

He's done as much as his competition (if not more) and i've yet to see anything conclusive which says otherswise.

In terms of creativity (key passes/chance created etc) and pressing (winning the ball back/interceptions etc) he's comfortably in front of Townsend who has a better goal scoring record - but both are poor in that regard ultimately.

Which is the point surely. Neither have 100% claimed the place and until one does its a mute point.
I would say a fair number have been banging on about a lack of width and natural pace which is one attribute townsend does offer.

 

[billyiddo]

Which is the point surely. Neither have 100% claimed the place and until one does its a mute point.
I would say a fair number have been banging on about a lack of width and natural pace which is one attribute townsend does offer.

I agree that neither has claimed the place for sure.

The width talk seems to have finally gone away now it's become clear that the full backs are who provide it in this team.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

One thing I think is in Townsend favour is the fact the opposition defenders are more scared of him as he can go either way.

Lamellas is so predictable that you can play him out of games by showing him outside. Townsend has the pace to hurt you along with the unpredictability that comes from not having the greatest football brain.

I also saw Chelsea double up on Townsend a lot spin the final and he was poor so if Jose thinks he is a threat...

I for one think that the right hand side needs upgrading as a priority as neither player is really roosting much

You can argue all day about Bork rate for Lamella and he has higher assist stats but he hasn't scored enough goals so far

You can argue too that Townsend doesn't create enough and hasn't scored enough open play goals

There are pros and cons for both players and I think they will both be in and out for the rest if the season

One thing I believe is that we play better football when Lamella isn't playing as it's free flowing ... Townsend doesn't help that but eriksen seems to be far more involved as the lynch pin

 

[braineclipse]

You could say Townsend is more effective. He has way more shots than Lamela, who cannot seem to work an opening to even get a shot. Townsend may sky most of them over the bar but Lamela is not even getting a shot off. Lamela works pretty hard, but also makes some dodgy tackles. Townsend has the raw physical abilities of Bale. But he does not have the calmness or thought patterns of bale it seems. Lamela looks like a skillful player who cannot adapt to the pace of the premier league at all. Im still hoping. But now that even poch has dropped him I am worried.

What?

I would imagine that at the beginning of the season, you would have been tagged a ultra-blinkered fan if you had said that Harry Kane's ceiling was much higher than Soldado's, even with his underwhelming first season. Sure... Lamela's Roma performances make Townsend look like a Sunday pub player; but then so do Soldado's Valencia goals. However what I am interested in is what they do in our colours. Other than a Rabona, what has Lamela done for two seasons in a Spurs shirt that can make anyone state that his ceiling is stratospheric compared to any other player in the team, Townsend included.

And why do you think that he us getting splinters in his arse? Do you imagine that Poch thinks he deserves to be playing but is pushing some agenda against him? So if not that, isn't the only other reason because he does not think he is good enough - at least at the moment - and other players (such a s Townsend) are better options?

Overall this season Poch has started Lamela a hell of a lot more than he has started Townsend. The only people that have suggested an agenda from Poch have been the posters critical of Lamela iirc.

Had Lamela scored the swansea goal it would have been a sign that it was the coming of the new Maradona...

Townsend is still young is developing and is obviously listening as seems to be far less selfish. Lamela has done absolutely nothing to warrant a starting place at the moment. Until he does the conversation is pointless

Yes. And still older than Lamela.