Andros Townsend

[scaramanga]

True on both counts but when townsend plays in our team he doesn't actually play as a wing forward...he is a winger out there. the reason i added his lack of appreciation as a wing forward was because he is in direct competition with lamela.....and lamela tactically plays the wing forward position better than townsend

on the defensive end i think everyone is doing a great job..so townsend doesnt actually show bad traits defensively...i think thats a bit of a myth to be honest. may not be as hard working as lamela but it adequate

I'm not sure that he's playing as a winger because that's what Poch/the team needs though. I suspect he's playing as a winger because chalk on his boots is the limit of his tactical ability.

Shame, as he's very talented but I still don't see any mental improvement.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It's not rocket science. End product means stopping the opposition from scoring, creating chances for our team and or scoring for our team. We have a host of players who ghost through games having made minimal impact. Townsend is just one of them.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

I dunno -- you do seem to have something against our academy players. You don't like Townsend, which I get.l But you don't like Mason either. You seem to hate Danny Rose. Kane has had to perform to player of the season levels for you not to dislike him, and even them you are sceptical?

Personally, I'm the reverse. If a player has come through the academy, I give them more slack than a big money buy.

But it's not BECAUSE they're academy players, I think it's more everyone hypes them up so much Any countering viewpoint causes such aggressive defences, when people slag lamela, soldado, jan or whatever, people don't react like they do against academy players.

How do I seem to hate Danny Rose. Again, I'm not mega convinced by him, he has some great games, some bad ones, far too many dodgy moments etc. why do people feel the need to throw emotional words out there. Same wit mason, I just don't see him offering enouh, though if he can score/assist more like the last two games I'll be delighted. Like with what kane has done.

People in this forum are so weird how personal and aggressive they are in their defence.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

I understand one simple thing alright! You are one of those "fans" who take an intense hatred for a player (or as pointed out by others - most of our academy players) to the extent that even when they play decently well, you still cannot bring yourself to give them the praise they deserve. I actually think you are so disappointed that they are proving your criticism wrong, that you feel the need to still try to bring them down - just to prove you were right.

I very much understand that people can have different opinions; just like the cleric or whatever in the Middle East who said that the earth revolves around the sun. I understand he has a different opinion but that does not make that opinion any less stupid, illogical or ridiculous. Lamela is "leagues ahead of Townsend"? Really? On what objective basis? Or is this again an opinion? By all means enjoy your opinion, but the fact is that it apparently has as much weighting as that of the cleric... because Poch - after having given Lamela ample leeway - has consigned him to the bench. And do you know who is starting instead of him? Answers on a postcard.

And to put the icing on the cake... I am apparently one of 10 people around the world who have the temerity to compare Townsend's Swansea goal with that of Lamela against Everton. Mmmm.... Now I ask myself, could Townsend pull off a shot like Lamela's? It is a distinct possibility; every player can fluke a shot like that - as evident from Lamela's inability to repeat the feat. Could Lamela replicate Townsend's goal? Not a chance in hell. He does not have the pace and his dribbling always requires beating two players and then running straight into the third. Having said that, even though I have massive reservations about the Argentine, I was singing his praises unreservedly after that Everton game and - above all - would love him to prove me wrong. If he does, I can assure you that I will celebrate his improvement unreservedly and without any agenda.

Do you realise how much brick you speak? So fudging high and mighty. no point responding to you as you are clearly incapable of discussing anything that you don't agree with, see your views as the right views (funny co siders g now much brick you speak) and unable to express yourself in any other manner than clamish.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

pretty sure if you asked people to tell you what it is that is bad about townsend ,,, most of them wont be able to quantify it

Its easy to say that townsend is just bad without being made to validate your answer

aside from tactical awareness to the role of a wing forward when tottenham have the ball..i fail to see what is bad about townsend

talent wise i do believe lamela is quite a way ahead of townsend......but it all boils down to application and returns......, the fact of the matter is that with less talent townsend actually applies himself more in comparison to the talent he has than lamela does in comparison with his own talent

basically if you put townsend out there you know what you will get and he tries to give it to you

I say we just be happy for the kid!!!!!

Really? Okay, the fact he shoots (though he has gotten better at realising he can't) more than anyone and barely scores or tests the keeper, the fact he very rarely gets assists or even creates goal scoring opporutnities (I realise he did yesterday), the fact he is t a team player - in ATTACK he's single minded and often runs into dead ends and loses the ball, and he doesn't work hard enough defensively.

 

[africanspurs]

It's not rocket science. End product means stopping the opposition from scoring, creating chances for our team and or scoring for our team. We have a host of players who ghost through games having made minimal impact. Townsend is just one of them.

It actually is ALOT more complicated than what you are making it out to be. especially above
End product means stopping the opposition from scoring? Interesting take...i assume your trying to make defenders accountable to that phrase as well.......which oddly enough IMO is probably one position that has to be evaluated as part of a unit and in conjunction with a whole lot of stuff as well

tbf and not trying to get on your nerves...i do know what you are trying to say..i just dont believe you have really ever volunteered the argument in it entirety and on a deeper level. we can agree to disagree but i dont think you want to or have time to actually dissect this thing in a long and boring debate ..

needless to say i dont agree with what you insinuate about townsends end product...for several reason that we debate about/ go into suck as (
no a consistent run in first team in comparisons with others that seemed to have been given a bite at the cherry regardless of their performance,
people not being fair in their assessment,,...one rule for others and another for townsend
the people townsend plays with as he normally plays with the second strings
the tactics employed with the person-ell chosen, in the second string not nearly as many people are in the box in comparison to when we run with chadli playing with kane and erikson etc,
not to mention i do think he creates attacking opportunities for our players)

 

[africanspurs]

Really? Okay, the fact he shoots (though he has gotten better at realising he can't) more than anyone and barely scores or tests the keeper, the fact he very rarely gets assists or even creates goal scoring opporutnities (I realise he did yesterday), the fact he is t a team player - in ATTACK he's single minded and often runs into dead ends and loses the ball, and he doesn't work hard enough defensively.

This is actually better as far as quantifying what you mean

Okay , fortunately i have access to some OPTA stuff , hopefully it should have some kind of info there

glad you can see the development in the choice of shooting though

 

[africanspurs]

Really? Okay, the fact he shoots (though he has gotten better at realising he can't) more than anyone and barely scores or tests the keeper, the fact he very rarely gets assists or even creates goal scoring opporutnities (I realise he did yesterday), the fact he is t a team player - in ATTACK he's single minded and often runs into dead ends and loses the ball, and he doesn't work hard enough defensively.

Who do you think DOES have an end product that is NOT a world class player or on the cusp of becoming a world class player/ was considered a world class player recently.

i want to do some kind of comparison

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Who do you think DOES have an end product that is NOT a world class player or on the cusp of becoming a world class player/ was considered a world class player recently.

i want to do some kind of comparison

Let's work just within our squad. For me Lamela is better in almost every regard, though they maybe give the ball away more often. I think Lamela works harder defensively, I think he is a more creative passer (not necessarily succeeds every time), he can score great goals, he seems to link up better with the team more.

Chadli's goals show he's far more effective.

The thing is, sometimes it's not just about stats (though I'm confident even on these terms they are better), but just watching them play. Seeing how they work as a team, their work ethic etc.

 

[africanspurs]

okay lamela and chadli

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Especially when the guy is question is always slagging off Jan and Davies.

Really?

This is a comment I made after one of his games:

Re: Jan Vertonghen official
Awesome! Simply awesome. Honestly - words fail to describe his defensive display today. He was that good!

For the last time...
I have no problem when people slate Townsend after a bad game; that comes with the territory. What riles me is when they lay into him (or any other player) after a decent game or, as happened after the Swansea goal, ridicule or minimise his efforts. Whatever the excuses, this can only be the result of an agenda against the player. The guy bleeds lilly white; you can see it in the interviews and on the pitch; he deserves better!

 

[africanspurs]

aaahhh blast

i'm struggling trying to paste these tables of information in here

 

[Spur of the moment]

So far on the Ratings thread for the QPR game, 16 respondents have awarded Townsend between 6-8, one gave him a 5 and five others rated him either 3 or 4.

So, did he play well or did he not?

Hard to escape the conclusion that certain fans are using the ratings thread simply as a vehicle to vent their deep-seated prejudices rather than attempting an objective assessment.

 

[africanspurs]

Okay i am jut going to write it in

so this is out of the 3 players

So involvement in attacking play

• Townsend has played by far the least the minutes but ranks 2nd in touches / min(1.4). first is lamela (1.3)and third is chadli(1.6)
• out of touches for each of these guys townsend rates highest in percentage when comparing how much of the touches in the opposition half is in the danger area...i.e final third (69%) lamela (62%) chadli (66%)
• As for passes received / min ...its the same order as touches per minute with lamela first(2.2) then townsend(2.3) and then chadli (2.4)

so as far as attacking play goes proportionally speaking...townsend is just as involved as anyone on the team and significantly better than lamela and marginally better than chadli in getting us into the danger third of the opposition

this of course could easily be explained by his positional sense and core duties...which is the positional sense of a winger and the core duty of supplier

The bit i think thats important is that wingers sometimes and quite often get marginalised with regards to overall play...but in this case townsend actually is .1 minute away from lamela and the same amount ahead of chadli. there isnt much difference as far as involvement in that regard

i'll do distribution next

 

[africanspurs]

Okay..so distribution..this is more to do with End product i think?

Hmmm..townsend is about to get slaughtered here

• He has the worst of pass accuracy....79%..chadli has the best at 84 and lamela second at 82
• accuracy of passes in the opposition half is the same order 78.8 , lamela 81.5 and chadli 85.3
• accuracy in the final third though is a different story. townsend gets second with 81, lamela last with 79.4 and chadli tops with 85
• crosses is pretty bad ..townsend comes in for cross accuracy of 13.6% (44 crosses and 9 succ), lamela first (73/19) 26% and chadli second (33/7) 21.2%
• minutes per chances created ...66 mins for townsend, 46 for lamela and 52 for chadli

as far as distribution and ball usage goes...townsend sucks compared to the other two but is still a relevant factor again in the final third

i think this has a lot to do with the amount of crosses he throws in there..again this is cause his default setting is that of winger and the other two's default setting are those of wing forwards

 

[africanspurs]

i'll try and summise the goal threat and defending later today....

needless to say that lamela is quite bad in the goal threat area poor guy.

 

[elltrev]

Here's PL minutes played per goal OR assist this season:

Kane - 89
Chadli - 126
Townsend - 144
Eriksen - 210
Lamela - 286

Townsend has much smaller sample size though (574 minutes played, compared to Eriksen's 2305 for example).

 

[Spur of the moment]

This is where bald stats can belie what you witness with the naked eye. Even allowing for the difference in number of minutes played, it beggars belief that Townsend is even anywhere near Eriksen, let alone ahead of him - and by some distance at that.

 

[parklane1]

This is where bald stats can belie what you witness with the naked eye. Even allowing for the difference in number of minutes played, it beggars belief that Townsend is even anywhere near Eriksen, let alone ahead of him - and by some distance at that.

Bingo, stats are fine and are a tool to be used. However they rarely tell the whole story and should never be seen as so.

 

[Jordinho]

Here's PL minutes played per goal OR assist this season:

Kane - 89
Chadli - 126
Townsend - 144
Eriksen - 210
Lamela - 286

Townsend has much smaller sample size though (574 minutes played, compared to Eriksen's 2305 for example).

But, but, pens don't count?