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Andros Townsend

Do we have any defensive stats from Opta which could help map out the pressing qualities for the three, seeings as this seems to be an important part of our midfielders game under the current manager?

Interesting reading so far though.

Agree with what i assume Jord is hinting at - penatlies didn't count for Soldado when we were assessing his contribution as it skewed the view of how effective he was in all round play, so probably should be taken in to account with Townsend - if we want to be fair...
 
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The guy needs to take more of his shots inside the penalty area. Then he'll start scoring.
I'm sure someone can pull up stats of where his shots are from.
 
africanspurs said:
when townsend plays in our team he doesn't actually play as a wing forward...he is a winger out there.
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This is what Townsend said in an interview when he debuted in the England team:
"The manager just told me to go out and do what I had been doing with Tottenham and QPR, to take people on, get some crosses into the box and have some shots. That is basically what every manager has ever said to me,"
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/16/andros-townsend-tottenham-england-international
 
elltrev said:
Here's PL minutes played per goal OR assist this season:

Kane - 89
Chadli - 126
Townsend - 144
Eriksen - 210
Lamela - 286

Townsend has much smaller sample size though (574 minutes played, compared to Eriksen's 2305 for example).
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Strip penalties out of that
 
Maltese Falcon said:
This is what Townsend said in an interview when he debuted in the England team:
"The manager just told me to go out and do what I had been doing with Tottenham and QPR, to take people on, get some crosses into the box and have some shots. That is basically what every manager has ever said to me,"
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/16/andros-townsend-tottenham-england-international
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Great quote.....bang on the money

This is what i mean, a lot of people on here dont understand the level of mental conditioning and training that occurs at the grass roots level

i HIGHLY doubt that townsend is completely ignoring everything poch is telling him to do...most likely poch is incorporating townsends skill set into the team

i mean look...lamela cant beat people on the wing so he operates as a wing forward which plays to his strengths..townsend can AND he progresses us up the pitch very quickly in a higher paced transition game...so he plays in a position and in a manner where those traits are at their strongest

look at city
when they play silva and nasri...those guys stay wide but then tend to drift infield into AM positions and cause havoc
when they play Milner he tends to stay wide and keep the midfield line level but works VERY well with the full back..and he does drift infield but nowhere near the first two
when they play Navas they stretch the pitch and navas plays REALLY wide most of the times.

I doubt any of those players are considered stupid players because they possess different skill sets.....
 
africanspurs said:
why though? LOL

its not like its easy to take penalties...you have to be good at it.
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You do and he is very good at them from what we have seen, which is defo a positive for him.

But if we want to be consistent with how we rate our players then only open play goals can be counted - and in fairness if we are comparing players in the team to one another then it seems unfair to throw penalties scored in to the mix as the other players have no penalties taken to compare. That and we're rating the players' contribution to the team as a player - not dead ball specialists...
 
africanspurs said:
Great quote.....bang on the money

This is what i mean, a lot of people on here dont understand the level of mental conditioning and training that occurs at the grass roots level

i HIGHLY doubt that townsend is completely ignoring everything poch is telling him to do...most likely poch is incorporating townsends skill set into the team

i mean look...lamela cant beat people on the wing so he operates as a wing forward which plays to his strengths..townsend can AND he progresses us up the pitch very quickly in a higher paced transition game...so he plays in a position and in a manner where those traits are at their strongest

look at city
when they play silva and nasri...those guys stay wide but then tend to drift infield into AM positions and cause havoc
when they play Milner he tends to stay wide and keep the midfield line level but works VERY well with the full back..and he does drift infield but nowhere near the first two
when they play Navas they stretch the pitch and navas plays REALLY wide most of the times.

I doubt any of those players are considered stupid players because they possess different skill sets.....
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I don't think any of those players regularly take the low value option either.
 
billyiddo said:
You do and he is very good at them from what we have seen, which is defo a positive for him.

But if we want to be consistent with how we rate our players then only open play goals can be counted - and in fairness if we are comparing players in the team to one another then it seems unfair to throw penalties scored in to the mix as the other players have no penalties taken to compare. That and we're rating the players' contribution to the team as a player - not dead ball specialists...
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A free kick is a dead ball too. So to an extent then, might Eriksen's goals from free kicks be taken out? Or at least, should they maybe be factored in that stat somehow or in some way. In a discussion, should it be a consideration. Could it be in the conversation. In which case, Eriksen might fall even further behind Chadli (and Townsend) in that particular stat being discussed (nobody had mentioned Chadli yet).

Also, back in the day, were you an advocate of Soldado's penalties being taken out of his 'evaluations', so to speak? I recall some opposition to that at the time.
 
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Scoring from free kicks is a skill in its own right and having someone who is good at it is useful as you get a few more free kicks than you get penalties. If that was all Eriksen brought to the side he shouldn't be considered a creative or goalscoring midfielder and it would probably be better to pass the free kick duties on to someone else.
 
Just use your eyes. Townsend rarely makes a net positive contribution to the team's result. It is easy as creating chances, scoring from chances and preventing the other side from scoring. Townsend can play for long stretches of time and barely contribute in any of these respects. But like I said earlier there are others in the squad who are just as guilty.
 
sc25 said:
A free kick is a dead ball too. So to an extent then, might Eriksen's goals from free kicks be taken out? Or at least, should they maybe be factored in that stat somehow or in some way. In a discussion, should it be a consideration. Could it be in the conversation. In which case, Eriksen might fall even further behind Chadli (and Townsend) in that particular stat being discussed (nobody had mentioned Chadli yet).

Also, back in the day, were you an advocate of Soldado's penalties being taken out of his 'evaluations', so to speak? I recall some opposition to that at the time.
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I wanted to count Soldados penalties as a contribution when evaluting his performance last season, yes. But all and sundry were telling me i couldn't do that - which is why im trying to hold others to that same standard laid down last season - nice to see you're keeping notes ;)

Also as explained in a previous post, we're comparing Townsend to his rivals for the wide positions rather than focusing on what he has done for the team individually - so it isn't the same scenario that you're trying to paint it as anyway. Lamela and Chadli haven't taken penalties (iirc) so if we want to make a comparrison then that needs to be taken in to consideration for any goal based stat to be relevant.

I've actually touched on the free kick thing in the Eriksen thread before iirc - i guess that evaded your forum notes. It's a nice stat but if you want to evaluate a players effectiveness 'in-game' over 90 minutes then really there's an argument that it should be viewed seperately.
 
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africanspurs said:
Great quote.....bang on the money

This is what i mean, a lot of people on here dont understand the level of mental conditioning and training that occurs at the grass roots level

i HIGHLY doubt that townsend is completely ignoring everything poch is telling him to do...most likely poch is incorporating townsends skill set into the team

i mean look...lamela cant beat people on the wing so he operates as a wing forward which plays to his strengths..townsend can AND he progresses us up the pitch very quickly in a higher paced transition game...so he plays in a position and in a manner where those traits are at their strongest

look at city
when they play silva and nasri...those guys stay wide but then tend to drift infield into AM positions and cause havoc
when they play Milner he tends to stay wide and keep the midfield line level but works VERY well with the full back..and he does drift infield but nowhere near the first two
when they play Navas they stretch the pitch and navas plays REALLY wide most of the times.

I doubt any of those players are considered stupid players because they possess different skill sets.....
Click to expand...

Does this mean that you don't think Townsend has changed a bit under Pochettino then?
 
All set pieces count as part of the end result. Lamella has 5 assist and at least two from memory are from corners. Eriksen corners have been toss so therefore Lamella is the better player

Townsend has 5 penalty goals... Yet Kane who has scored 26 goals takes a poor penalty so clearly Townsend is the better player.

They all count in the same way as when we concede a goal from a pen or a corner or a fee kick
 
africanspurs said:
It actually is ALOT more complicated than what you are making it out to be. especially above
End product means stopping the opposition from scoring? Interesting take...i assume your trying to make defenders accountable to that phrase as well.......which oddly enough IMO is probably one position that has to be evaluated as part of a unit and in conjunction with a whole lot of stuff as well

tbf and not trying to get on your nerves...i do know what you are trying to say..i just dont believe you have really ever volunteered the argument in it entirety and on a deeper level. we can agree to disagree but i dont think you want to or have time to actually dissect this thing in a long and boring debate ..

needless to say i dont agree with what you insinuate about townsends end product...for several reason that we debate about/ go into suck as (
no a consistent run in first team in comparisons with others that seemed to have been given a bite at the cherry regardless of their performance,
people not being fair in their assessment,,...one rule for others and another for townsend
the people townsend plays with as he normally plays with the second strings
the tactics employed with the person-ell chosen, in the second string not nearly as many people are in the box in comparison to when we run with chadli playing with kane and erikson etc,
not to mention i do think he creates attacking opportunities for our players)
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Clearly you are watching a different player to everyone else. Also, I have already stated that there are plenty of other ghost players in our squad, not just Townsend. Don't' need to 'quantify' anything mate. He rarely scores. he rarely assists and he rarely defends. He is just out there running around a bit.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not sure that he's playing as a winger because that's what Poch/the team needs though. I suspect he's playing as a winger because chalk on his boots is the limit of his tactical ability.

Shame, as he's very talented but I still don't see any mental improvement.
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I'm pleased to see you recognise Townsend as "very talented" at last.

Now just let's hope he can apply those talents for the good of the team. Poch obviously also recognises those talents too and is trying to bring them out. Let's all hope he succeeds . Surely even the Townsend sceptics can agree on that?
 
Pirate55 said:
I'm pleased to see you recognise Townsend as "very talented" at last.

Now just let's hope he can apply those talents for the good of the team. Poch obviously also recognises those talents too and is trying to bring them out. Let's all hope he succeeds . Surely even the Townsend sceptics can agree on that?
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I've always hoped that Poch can teach Townsend how to play football. I just think the chances of him being able to get smaller the older Townsend gets.

Obviously some players mature at a very late stage but they are few and far between. The other problem is that Townsend relies on a quick burst of pace (I'm not sure how quick he really is over a longer distance) which will diminish with age as he learns his trade. So he'll need to learn quick and will likely still have a short career peak.
 
scaramanga said:
I've always hoped that Poch can teach Townsend how to play football. I just think the chances of him being able to get smaller the older Townsend gets.

Obviously some players mature at a very late stage but they are few and far between. The other problem is that Townsend relies on a quick burst of pace (I'm not sure how quick he really is over a longer distance) which will diminish with age as he learns his trade. So he'll need to learn quick and will likely still have a short career peak.
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Don't you think his recent performances have improved?
 
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