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Another shooting in Murica

Yermiyahu said:
This thread really shows me how little the bulk of the people posting in it know about America. Our constitution and our national psyche. I moved to the US 14 years ago and am now an American citizen and a gun owner.

I also have a concealed carry permit. I always carry, and have a shotgun in the house just in case we get any unwanted visitors( and yes,I would have absolutely no compunction in shooting someone should G-d forbid, my family be attacked) For what its worth I am in favour of banning automatic and semi automatic guns of any type, and this surely has to happen but it is going to be very very difficult. Nobody needs an Uzi or an M16. Handguns, Shotguns and hunting rifles I am fine with

My wife also carries and both my kids have been taught to handle and shoot handguns. It's just part of life here. The feeling of helplessness I had in the UK after Tony Martin was jailed for protecting his property was a small factor in my deciding to emigrate. Under Florida law I am authorised to shoot an intruder in my home. I must stress that I don't particularly like any of this but it is what it is and I feel safer at night armed. Questions welcome.
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Yermiyahu, I emigrated to the US pretty much when you did and also became a citizen, your post really surprises me, I moved to the "left" coast and maybe thats the big difference but I honestly don't know a single ex-pat here (and they're not all in California) who own a gun, let alone carry. I completely respect the right to bear arms, this country was created from a revolution no less but I've never contemplated becoming a gun owner for a moment. I'm not in any way a wooly liberal either, but I'm guessing there's just a different mentality in a "red" state like Florida.
 
Yermiyahu said:
This thread really shows me how little the bulk of the people posting in it know about America. Our constitution and our national psyche. I moved to the US 14 years ago and am now an American citizen and a gun owner.

I also have a concealed carry permit. I always carry, and have a shotgun in the house just in case we get any unwanted visitors( and yes,I would have absolutely no compunction in shooting someone should G-d forbid, my family be attacked) For what its worth I am in favour of banning automatic and semi automatic guns of any type, and this surely has to happen but it is going to be very very difficult. Nobody needs an Uzi or an M16. Handguns, Shotguns and hunting rifles I am fine with

My wife also carries and both my kids have been taught to handle and shoot handguns. It's just part of life here. The feeling of helplessness I had in the UK after Tony Martin was jailed for protecting his property was a small factor in my deciding to emigrate. Under Florida law I am authorised to shoot an intruder in my home. I must stress that I don't particularly like any of this but it is what it is and I feel safer at night armed. Questions welcome.
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You say a ban on some weapon types has to happen and you support that. But nothing of the sort has happened with the regular flow of mass shooting tragedies in the last decades. In fact the opposite has happened.

What does this say about the American national psyche? An unwillingness to change even when innocent men, women and children are being gunned down by the hundreds... Nothing... Nothing, but thoughts and prayers and denial.
 
Mr_B said:
Yermiyahu, I emigrated to the US pretty much when you did and also became a citizen, your post really surprises me, I moved to the "left" coast and maybe thats the big difference but I honestly don't know a single ex-pat here (and they're not all in California) who own a gun, let alone carry. I completely respect the right to bear arms, this country was created from a revolution no less but I've never contemplated becoming a gun owner for a moment. I'm not in any way a wooly liberal either, but I'm guessing there's just a different mentality in a "red" state like Florida.
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At times it's almost like different states are different countries.
 
Watch some of the footage emerging of people under fire in Vegas, look at the images of the fields of dead and dying, view the police photos of the hotel room where this fudger was able to assemble 20+ high powered automatic weapons and wreak his hatred on innocent people.

Then tell me you still believe it's a person's 'right' to own instruments like this, on such a scale.

Surely the right not to have to fear for one's life when some nut-job with twenty assault rifles loses his fudging mind wins out?

fudge the NRA. fudge guns. fudge this guy.

The human race is fudged, but we have to believe in the overwhelming good in us, otherwise what's the point?

One massacre like this was all it took in my country and guns were basically outlawed. I realise the scale in the US is incomparable, but the people need to make their voices heard, now more than ever.. Attitudes need to change, education needs to change. The fudging antiquated 'American Psyche' needs to fudge off.

I have to hope it can change, some day in my life time.

That's enough internet for me now.
 
nayenezgani said:
Watch some of the footage emerging of people under fire in Vegas, look at the images of the fields of dead and dying, view the police photos of the hotel room where this fudger was able to assemble 20+ high powered automatic weapons and wreak his hatred on innocent people.

Then tell me you still believe it's a person's 'right' to own instruments like this, on such a scale.

Surely the right not to have to fear for one's life when some nut-job with twenty assault rifles loses his fudging mind wins out?

fudge the NRA. fudge guns. fudge this guy.

The human race is fudged, but we have to believe in the overwhelming good in us, otherwise what's the point?

One massacre like this was all it took in my country and guns were basically outlawed. I realise the scale in the US is incomparable, but the people need to make their voices heard, now more than ever.. Attitudes need to change, education needs to change. The fudging antiquated 'American Psyche' needs to fudge off.

I have to hope it can change, some day in my life time.

That's enough internet for me now.
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Not my views but the arguments I have listened to (after this massacre) are as follows:

If you ban guns then only the criminals will have them, they are criminals and therefore will not obey the law and we will not be able to protect ourselves, our homes and our family.

If guns were banned then this person would still be able to get them illegally and it wouldn't have changed this massacre but when my home is broken into and my family are raped I will not be able to protect them.

Cars kill more people than guns and we are not outlawing them.

If you look at the stats for white gun deaths they compare with European countries, this is a race issue not a gun issue.

Its my rights I don't have to tell you why I want them, constitution etc.


If nothing changed after Sandy Hook - nothing will ever change.
 
The USA need those X-Ray metal detectors like on Total Recall

Set them up at all fast food outlets, and confiscate all weapons found
 
Bullet said:
The USA need those X-Ray metal detectors like on Total Recall

Set them up at all fast food outlets, and confiscate all weapons found
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problem being in many places open and concealed carry is perfectly normal - first you need to ban guns before you can confiscate them.
 
r-u-s-x said:
problem being in many places open and concealed carry is perfectly normal - first you need to ban guns before you can confiscate them.
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Well that's what I meant, obviously... ban them, then scan for them. As many others have said, first you need to get rid of the auto and semi-autos and sniper rifles.
Personally I don't mind if low-life scum are shooting one another, but when they start shooting good/nice/contributing citizens, that is not on, even though they are Americans.
 
Yermiyahu said:
This thread really shows me how little the bulk of the people posting in it know about America. Our constitution and our national psyche. I moved to the US 14 years ago and am now an American citizen and a gun owner.

I also have a concealed carry permit. I always carry, and have a shotgun in the house just in case we get any unwanted visitors( and yes,I would have absolutely no compunction in shooting someone should G-d forbid, my family be attacked) For what its worth I am in favour of banning automatic and semi automatic guns of any type, and this surely has to happen but it is going to be very very difficult. Nobody needs an Uzi or an M16. Handguns, Shotguns and hunting rifles I am fine with

My wife also carries and both my kids have been taught to handle and shoot handguns. It's just part of life here. The feeling of helplessness I had in the UK after Tony Martin was jailed for protecting his property was a small factor in my deciding to emigrate. Under Florida law I am authorised to shoot an intruder in my home. I must stress that I don't particularly like any of this but it is what it is and I feel safer at night armed. Questions welcome.
Click to expand...

A question from me - to what extent is the American dedication to guns due to:

A) a dedication to the sanctity of the constitution as a document
B) a broader obsession with freedom, particularly from government (presumably because the country was born through escaping the British government)
C) for some other reason Americans just really like guns - how they look, feel, make them feel etc
D) because everyone else has one, everyone feels unsafe without having one themselves

I find it quite fascinating really.
 
elltrev said:
A question from me - to what extent is the American dedication to guns due to:

A) a dedication to the sanctity of the constitution as a document
B) a broader obsession with freedom, particularly from government (presumably because the country was born through escaping the British government)
C) for some other reason Americans just really like guns - how they look, feel, make them feel etc
D) because everyone else has one, everyone feels unsafe without having one themselves

I find it quite fascinating really.
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I can answer this for you even though I'm not from there:


Because PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW (THROWS PENIS ON TABLE) PEW PEW PEW 'MURICA. WOOOOOOOOOOO SPRIIIIIIIING BREAAAAAAAK!!!!!
 
I can't ever see them changing their gun laws. If Sandy Hook couldn't be the catalyst for them to change their outdated, archaic laws on guns then nothing will.

The right wing in America are totally fudging nuts!

It's "not the right time to discuss gun control" according to some. When the hell is the right time then?
 
elltrev said:
A question from me - to what extent is the American dedication to guns due to:

A) a dedication to the sanctity of the constitution as a document
B) a broader obsession with freedom, particularly from government (presumably because the country was born through escaping the British government)
C) for some other reason Americans just really like guns - how they look, feel, make them feel etc
D) because everyone else has one, everyone feels unsafe without having one themselves

I find it quite fascinating really.
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I think its mixture of all those things, ask 100 Americans and you'd probably get many different answers. Of course America is largely small towns so a lot of people hunt, and I think if owning and using guns is something that you have grown up with then having them around is just part of normal life. I would add though that there are a large percentage of Americans who don't own guns and a even larger percentage who would like to see a ban on Automatic/ machine gun types of weapons.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
You may as well have stopped there.

Why do they have guns? Because in the 1700's it was a good idea. Everything has changed since, including any actual justification to own guns, except the American view of the need to have killing tools in everyones hands.
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I actually disagree with the reason for continued gun ownership you have reached - the protection narrative is just part of the sales line.
America knows it has to constantly go to war to stay powerful (sales line = protect itself). This creates an atmosphere of paranoia.
Add the swashbuckling nature of it and tenuously link it to the limited positive history America has (ie something to believe in) and you have the reason - the govt needs people to live in fear of everything so they can stay in power.
 
monkeybarry said:
I actually disagree with the reason for continued gun ownership you have reached - the protection narrative is just part of the sales line.
America knows it has to constantly go to war to stay powerful (sales line = protect itself). This creates an atmosphere of paranoia.
Add the swashbuckling nature of it and tenuously link it to the limited positive history America has (ie something to believe in) and you have the reason - the govt needs people to live in fear of everything so they can stay in power.
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And big corporations pay the politicians to ignore vital issues so they can keep profiting.
 
monkeybarry said:
I actually disagree with the reason for continued gun ownership you have reached - the protection narrative is just part of the sales line.
America knows it has to constantly go to war to stay powerful (sales line = protect itself). This creates an atmosphere of paranoia.
Add the swashbuckling nature of it and tenuously link it to the limited positive history America has (ie something to believe in) and you have the reason - the govt needs people to live in fear of everything so they can stay in power.
Click to expand...

Look at their attitude to other nations, to war, to guns, to religion... It basically just hasnt changed.

In 300 years they have barely evolved socially, and yet the whole world has changed.

American gun laws and attitudes are an anachronism.

Maybe it is because of this paranoia. Personally I think its more likely no one was ever brave enough to take their guns away and now they cant.
 
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