Ross Barkley

[Gutter Boy]

You never know what happens during a season. We cannot compete on 4 fronts by playing Eriksen and Dele every game.

That's why we have Son, Lamela, GKN, Edwards + Sissoko's replacement.

My point is really just that we need 1 AM (Sissoko's replacement), not 2.

 

[AdamB]

That's why we have Son, Lamela, GKN, Edwards + Sissoko's replacement.

My point is really just that we need 1 AM (Sissoko's replacement), not 2.

GKN has done nothing to show that he's at the right standard, Edwards is reportedly as likely to leave as he is to stay and has barely played in men's football yet and Sissoko's replacement doesnt exist as yet

 

[DeleHarry]

That's why we have Son, Lamela, GKN, Edwards + Sissoko's replacement.

My point is really just that we need 1 AM (Sissoko's replacement), not 2.

Lamela has injury issues, GKN has proved nothing so far. Like i said Edwards is out of the picture it seems until he resolves the contract issue.

So to soley rely on Son, Dele and Eriksen is not good enough

 

[glasgowspur]

Let's take a look at the games Lamela started in last year

Everton a drew 1-1 Lamela scored
Palace h won 1-0
Liverpool h drew 1-1
Monaco h lost 1-2
Gillingham h won 5-0 Lamela scored
CSKA Moscow h won 1-0
City h won 2-0
WBA away drew 1-1
Bayer L away drew 0-0
Bournemouth away drew 0-0

So, ignoring the minnows of Gillingham, Lamela started 9 games. We won three, drew 5 and lost one. We scored a total of 8 goals in those 9 games he started. So much for his creativity and game changing skills! It was in this period we effectively lost the title.

Away draw to Everton on the first day and a home draw to Liverpool can hardly be out reason for losing the league.
Blaming 1 player out of at least 11 more is not really proving a point. What if lamela sets up a chance for kane to tap in during one of those draws and he blazes it over the bar, is that lamela fault?
I don't remember us playing great during any of those games, that not down to one player, that's a team issue.

 

[Pirate55]

Away draw to Everton on the first day and a home draw to Liverpool can hardly be out reason for losing the league.
Blaming 1 player out of at least 11 more is not really proving a point. What if lamela sets up a chance for kane to tap in during one of those draws and he blazes it over the bar, is that lamela fault?
I don't remember us playing great during any of those games, that not down to one player, that's a team issue.

I agree - but drawing away to Bournemouth and West Brom were key results at the end of the season. 4 dropped points.

The point I was making was that Lamela is hardly the creative, game changing player as had been claimed. With Eriksen not there (or off form) we woefully lack creativity. The team generally were off form at the beginning of last season. However, Lamella is not the answer and the above statistics demonstrate that clearly.

 

[Baleforce]

I agree - but drawing away to Bournemouth and West Brom were key results at the end of the season. 4 dropped points.

The point I was making was that Lamela is hardly the creative, game changing player as had been claimed. With Eriksen not there (or off form) we woefully lack creativity. The team generally were off form at the beginning of last season. However, Lamella is not the answer and the above statistics demonstrate that clearly.

we absolutely battered west brom iirc, it was profligate finishing that cost us an easy win, there was no creativity issue on the day

I honestly can't remember what happened in the Bournemouth game though

 

[glasgowspur]

I agree - but drawing away to Bournemouth and West Brom were key results at the end of the season. 4 dropped points.

The point I was making was that Lamela is hardly the creative, game changing player as had been claimed. With Eriksen not there (or off form) we woefully lack creativity. The team generally were off form at the beginning of last season. However, Lamella is not the answer and the above statistics demonstrate that clearly.

I don't disagree about lamela, at best in that position he is unproven.
I do however have issues with how you are illustrating the point. I can't see that your figures above prove lamela isn't the answer.
Eriksen played in those matches which means lamela wasn't playing in eriksen position or as a replacement.

 

[Pirate55]

we absolutely battered west brom iirc, it was profligate finishing that cost us an easy win, there was no creativity issue on the day

I honestly can't remember what happened in the Bournemouth game though

I was at the Bounemouth game and we were really poor. Lamela had a long range effort crash off the bar but apart from that we created diddly squat. Lamela was charging around like a headless chicken and was lucky not to get sent off. We didn't deserve to win this game and hardly looked like scoring as we had no creativity. It was the game that Sissoko got a retrospective ban for an elbow over the touch line.

 

[Pirate55]

I don't disagree about lamela, at best in that position he is unproven.
I do however have issues with how you are illustrating the point. I can't see that your figures above prove lamela isn't the answer.
Eriksen played in those matches which means lamela wasn't playing in eriksen position or as a replacement.

Fair point. But in a fluid three AMs behind the single striker, they inter-change positions a lot during games and so Lamela has ample opportunity to demonstrate his creativity in this formation, irrespective of whether Eriksen is there or not.

 

[billyiddo]

Let's take a look at the games Lamela started in last year

Everton a drew 1-1 Lamela scored
Palace h won 1-0
Liverpool h drew 1-1
Monaco h lost 1-2
Gillingham h won 5-0 Lamela scored
CSKA Moscow h won 1-0
City h won 2-0
WBA away drew 1-1
Bayer L away drew 0-0
Bournemouth away drew 0-0

So, ignoring the minnows of Gillingham, Lamela started 9 games. We won three, drew 5 and lost one. We scored a total of 8 goals in those 9 games he started. So much for his creativity and game changing skills! It was in this period we effectively lost the title.

Well if you were to look at his creative stats over that 9 game period you'd see he was creating chances at a similar rate to what Eriksen managed over the course of the season (3.16 v 2.72 per 90) and that's despite not playing the role of chief creator - seeing as it's his creativity which you are calling in to question I find it strange you wouldn't actually look in to that yourself tbh

 

[Pirate55]

Well if you were to look at his creative stats over that 9 game period you'd see he was creating chances at a similar rate to what Eriksen managed over the course of the season (3.16 v 2.72 per 90) and that's despite not playing the role of chief creator - seeing as it's his creativity which you are calling in to question I find it strange you wouldn't actually look in to that yourself tbh

And comparing that to Barkley's?

As you know, I don't hold much by subjective stats rather than actual facts.

 

[billyiddo]

And comparing that to Barkley's?

As you know, I don't hold much by subjective stats rather than actual facts.

But those 'facts' and their relevance to the topic at hand are as subjective as anything else - Eriksen struggled to create chances and score goals in the same games so does that mean he isn't creative?

On the topic of our lack of creativity when Eriksen is out of the side and Lamelas suitability to cover him you would need to look at the games in which Lamela has played in place of him in that role, which doesn't really amount to many games as Eriksen is pretty good injury wise but from memory Eriksen was often left out of European games early on when he joined with Lamela filling.in and usually doing well iirc as it was often said on here that those types of games were his level (because he played well) Can he do it in the league? Can't say until he us given a chance to do it, but he creates plenty in league games despite not having the central creative role which our play goes through so I see no reason why he wouldn't be as productive, if not more so, if he was seeing more of the ball...

Lamela has higher creativity stats than Barkley but that's hardly a surprise for anyone that has seen them both play over the past three seasons or so

 

[Pirate55]

Lamela has had one good season for us. He struggled in his first then got a series of longish term injuries.He was ok in the subsequent year and then only managed to start 6 PL games last season. Hardly the epitome of creative consistency over the last three seasons you claim.

 

[Benny_Lad]

I think its quite clear that at Premier League level Lamela is not going to be a 20 combined goals/assists man. I'd say that was the absolute top of his range actually. The decision you make is whether you give up his work rate, and team play (which cannot be doubted) for a gamble on someone like Mahrez who is well capable of 25 goals/assits from that side of the pitch (allbeit maybe not with Lamela's work rate). I trust Poch and I think Poch trusts Lamela.

 

[Pirate55]

Well if you were to look at his creative stats over that 9 game period you'd see he was creating chances at a similar rate to what Eriksen managed over the course of the season (3.16 v 2.72 per 90) and that's despite not playing the role of chief creator - seeing as it's his creativity which you are calling in to question I find it strange you wouldn't actually look in to that yourself tbh

To follow your logic in those 9 games, Lamela would have created 24.48 chances. Yet we only scored 8 goals in total and how many of those did he actually assist? Our finishing must have been absolutely diabolical for those to make any sense at all - especially with Eriksen apparently also creating over 28 chances if he was on average creativity form.

 

[billyiddo]

Lamela has had one good season for us. He struggled in his first then got a series of longish term injuries.He was ok in the subsequent year and then only managed to start 6 PL games last season. Hardly the epitome of creative consistency over the last three seasons you claim.

He actually has been a picture of creative consistency and it is something I have argued since he has arrived - had had plenty of weaknesses in his game when he came here and especially in his first season but he always created chances for his team mates, it was just his weaknesses like giving the ball away and getting caught in possession often overshadowed the positive parts of his game - as he adapted to the league and ironed out the flaws in his game it allowed people to see what was always there ie creativity

 

[billyiddo]

To follow your logic in those 9 games, Lamela would have created 24.48 chances. Yet we only scored 8 goals in total and how many of those did he actually assist? Our finishing must have been absolutely diabolical for those to make any sense at all - especially with Eriksen apparently also creating over 28 chances if he was on average creativity form.

Eriksen went a whole season with 2 assists the other year - that on its own doesn't tell you much as despite that he was consistently creating - we just never had much up top that year. See also Kane being injured early last season...

 

[StephenH]

Lamela is 'the' marmite player, can be poor to average but very very occasionally excellent.

His languid style along with his habit of losing possession make it difficult for some of us.

 

[Vega]

The Spurs Brain‏@TheSpursBrain 4m4 minutes ago
Koeman "I expect Barkley to leave, 100%"

Mirror Football‏Verified account@MirrorFootball 50s50 seconds ago
Koeman: Barkley has told me he wants a new challenge

 

[DeleHarry]

Lamela is 'the' marmite player, can be poor to average but very very occasionally excellent.

His languid style along with his habit of losing possession make it difficult for some of us.

Agree with that, somehow though I don't mind too much. I like that he can come up with something unpredictable to unlock a defence or score a goal so I accept his other failings.

Big problem with Erik right now is how and when he fully recovers from his hip issues.