glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I'm pretty sure on of the more reliable ITKs (yeah i know!) last summer said that Konoplyanka was likely to be avoided like a bee swarm due to an issue with his off-field character....
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Squad for 2015-16 season
- Thread starter mazda80
- Start date
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
So it's off to Hull City for him then?
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
You know, from my point of view, your posts are usually well worth reading...but when this sort of stuff comes up, I do wonder if you're trolling.
My GHod, we'd be lucky to finish in the top half at that rate. Especially with just TWO goddamned strikers, one of whom is a free transfer from relegated Burnley.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
You know, from my point of view, your posts are usually well worth reading...but when this sort of stuff comes up, I do wonder if you're trolling.
We'd be adding 5 players to the squad that finished 5th/7th this season
- Ings - probably the closest thing to Kane-lite. An ideal like-for-like backup
- Ayew - a superb hardworking penetrating LWF
- Wimmer - very likely a more stable 4th CB than Chiriches
- Pritchard - the best player in the championship last season
- Alli - the best player in league 1 last season
None of the 13 players we'd be getting rid of made any real contribution last season - 2 or 3 decent games from Lennon, Paulinho and Dembele and a few sub run-outs from Soldado - is about it
So we'd be growing our effective squad from about 15 to about 20.
The main thing that will strength us though is that the youngest squad in the league will be a year older and a year more streetwise. Poch will also have a whole pre-season with a relatively settled squad of players - something we've not given a manager in over a decade.
We need to grow organically, not by another cycle of upheaval.
And re strikers - we just played a season with about 1.2 strikers. Coulthirst will be able to make as big a contribution as Ade did. Chadli can also be our 3rd CF if we bring in a LWF like Ayew
Cochise
Steve Carr
See I look at the Chelsea squad and see a great example of how to build a squad, mainly down to the flexibility of the players. They only really have 17 outfield players who play and most appear twice a week when they are in Europe. Not only that but Mourinho does rotate every now and then and has players who can come in and do a job should he need to change things up tactically.
Defence:
Firstly, our system is different in that we do expect more width to be supplied by our fullbacks than Chelsea do. In previous seasons (and this one at times) we have seen how having a unsuitable players at fullbacks has limited us. Chelsea have three fullbacks worth mentionning. Azpilicueta is their first choice LB, but can cover RB. Ivanovic is their first choise RB but can cover at CB. Luis is the backup LB. Chelsea also only really use three different CB's. Terry and Cahill start nearly every game in every competition. Zouma has been rotating in and out as the season has progressed but outside of these three players we rarely see anyone other than Ivanovic. It is really quite a tightly woven group where the players are all fully aware of one anothers strengths and weaknesses.
Midfield:
Matic has been their DM for much of the season, with backup provided by Mikel and Zouma. Ramires comes in occasionally as a hard working box to box midfielder, but the really important member of that group is Fabregas who is their creator in chief. The thing here is that the versatility of these last two allow Chelsea to tinker yet keep a strong centre.
On the attacking front, Willian and Hazard have been starting virtually every game. Oscar has faded over recent weeks but he has played often as their #10. Remy and Cuadrado are the other two players who rotate in when needed.
Up top:
Costa is their #9 with Drogba as the third choice backup. Chelsea are blessed with Remy who works either has their second choice #9 or as a wing forward when required.
In my eyes they have a blueprint that we could actually follow, which would actually help us to spend bigger with regards to wages. I'm not saying we have the ability to match them with regards to quality, but we do have personel who can cover in a number of positions. Not only that, but by cutting away the squad players we don't need we can offer better chances to youth players.
Ivanovic ----- Walker
Terry ----- Vertonghen
Cahill ----- Wimmer
Zouma ----- Dier
Azpilicueta ----- Rose
Luis ----- Davies
Here is where we overstock ourselves with the extra fullback (Yedlin) and extra CB (Fazio). If we wanted to trim down a little bit then we could sell Fazio and expect Davies to be the 4th CB option, but we are woefully short of experience in CB and probably could do with signing a real top draw player.
Matic ----- Bentaleb
Fabregas ----- ????
Mikel ----- Stambouli atm
Ramires ----- Mason
If we do pay up for Schneiderlin, we could very well have a decent partnership with him and Bentaleb. It won't be as strong as Chelsea's but we would have quality and balance. Mason can do a job in here, but also higher up the pitch should we wish to add a bit more bite in the centre of the park, whilst Stambouli is the backup DM. Alli will get games as well.
Hazard ----- ????
Willian ----- Lamela
Oscar ----- Eriksen
Cuadrado ----- Chadli
Remy ----- ????
Firstly, we miss the game changing player that is Hazard. No matter which way we look at it, we miss that player who will stretch the opponent and for me it is the second position we need to cover (after the CM). We have been linked with so may tricky wingers of late, I think we will find a new first choice started for this spot over the summer. Lamela needs to step up next year if he is to occupy that role next season, whilst Chadli will rotate in an out. The wide forward that can play up front is the third most important buy imo. Rodriguez looks to be a no go, but we have been linked heavily with Ayew, Lavezzi, Beavue and Berahino who can all do both jobs. This is without accounting for the impact that Pritchard may have on the team next season (could displace Lamela imo).
Costa ----- Kane
Drogba ----- ????
We have the first choice #9, the backup is probably the last piece of the jigsaw, but could be someone like Ade, Lambert, Gignac (on a free atm).
From that template we can identify who can leave.
Kaboul
Chiriches
Dembele
Capoue
Paulinho
Carroll
Townsend
Soldado
Holtby
Even with conservative pricing I can see us getting in who we need without having a net spend.
Defence:
Firstly, our system is different in that we do expect more width to be supplied by our fullbacks than Chelsea do. In previous seasons (and this one at times) we have seen how having a unsuitable players at fullbacks has limited us. Chelsea have three fullbacks worth mentionning. Azpilicueta is their first choice LB, but can cover RB. Ivanovic is their first choise RB but can cover at CB. Luis is the backup LB. Chelsea also only really use three different CB's. Terry and Cahill start nearly every game in every competition. Zouma has been rotating in and out as the season has progressed but outside of these three players we rarely see anyone other than Ivanovic. It is really quite a tightly woven group where the players are all fully aware of one anothers strengths and weaknesses.
Midfield:
Matic has been their DM for much of the season, with backup provided by Mikel and Zouma. Ramires comes in occasionally as a hard working box to box midfielder, but the really important member of that group is Fabregas who is their creator in chief. The thing here is that the versatility of these last two allow Chelsea to tinker yet keep a strong centre.
On the attacking front, Willian and Hazard have been starting virtually every game. Oscar has faded over recent weeks but he has played often as their #10. Remy and Cuadrado are the other two players who rotate in when needed.
Up top:
Costa is their #9 with Drogba as the third choice backup. Chelsea are blessed with Remy who works either has their second choice #9 or as a wing forward when required.
In my eyes they have a blueprint that we could actually follow, which would actually help us to spend bigger with regards to wages. I'm not saying we have the ability to match them with regards to quality, but we do have personel who can cover in a number of positions. Not only that, but by cutting away the squad players we don't need we can offer better chances to youth players.
Ivanovic ----- Walker
Terry ----- Vertonghen
Cahill ----- Wimmer
Zouma ----- Dier
Azpilicueta ----- Rose
Luis ----- Davies
Here is where we overstock ourselves with the extra fullback (Yedlin) and extra CB (Fazio). If we wanted to trim down a little bit then we could sell Fazio and expect Davies to be the 4th CB option, but we are woefully short of experience in CB and probably could do with signing a real top draw player.
Matic ----- Bentaleb
Fabregas ----- ????
Mikel ----- Stambouli atm
Ramires ----- Mason
If we do pay up for Schneiderlin, we could very well have a decent partnership with him and Bentaleb. It won't be as strong as Chelsea's but we would have quality and balance. Mason can do a job in here, but also higher up the pitch should we wish to add a bit more bite in the centre of the park, whilst Stambouli is the backup DM. Alli will get games as well.
Hazard ----- ????
Willian ----- Lamela
Oscar ----- Eriksen
Cuadrado ----- Chadli
Remy ----- ????
Firstly, we miss the game changing player that is Hazard. No matter which way we look at it, we miss that player who will stretch the opponent and for me it is the second position we need to cover (after the CM). We have been linked with so may tricky wingers of late, I think we will find a new first choice started for this spot over the summer. Lamela needs to step up next year if he is to occupy that role next season, whilst Chadli will rotate in an out. The wide forward that can play up front is the third most important buy imo. Rodriguez looks to be a no go, but we have been linked heavily with Ayew, Lavezzi, Beavue and Berahino who can all do both jobs. This is without accounting for the impact that Pritchard may have on the team next season (could displace Lamela imo).
Costa ----- Kane
Drogba ----- ????
We have the first choice #9, the backup is probably the last piece of the jigsaw, but could be someone like Ade, Lambert, Gignac (on a free atm).
From that template we can identify who can leave.
Kaboul
Chiriches
Dembele
Capoue
Paulinho
Carroll
Townsend
Soldado
Holtby
Even with conservative pricing I can see us getting in who we need without having a net spend.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
a) Those aren't exactly stunning qualifications to display when staking a player's claim to a first-team spot at Tottenham Hotspur, a club that still at least pretends to have some ambitions of challenging the rest.
b) Given that we will likely make an enormous profit if we follow your suggestions (50, perhaps even 60 million quid), is this really something that can be justified as 'backing' Poch? All you've given him is 'a relatively settled squad of players', which is apparently something we haven't seen in a decade. A relatively settled side full of mediocrity will still be mediocre, you know, and I can't see Poch happy and beaming with two free transfers, one Dier-esque young CB, one promoted youth-teamer and a League One player signed in January as the only reinforcements he gets to achieve his vision.
c) You've kept Stambouli in your side, and there's considerable doubt as to whether Poch actually wants him at the club at all. So, what...add him to the outgoings list and replace him with Winks? Great show of ambition that'll be.
d) How do we pretend to Eriksen and Lloris that we still have any ambitions of reaching the levels they want to play at with this sort of farcically cheap transfer strategy? I suppose we could easily sell them both too and replace them with Jordan Archer and Josh Onomah, but then that would lead to the same upheaval that you've stated you'd like to see us avoid.
e) So your proposal when it comes to avoiding burning out Kane next season is...to burn him out regardless, by only keeping two strikers around? We were forced to rely on him to an absurd degree this season because of our lack of strikers - that was forced on us, it wasn't something we did by choice. It is inconceivable that you want to turn that into a permanent situation by choosing to only have two strikers around, plus the morbidly terrifying option of playing Chadli upfront if both of them are injured or otherwise unavailable. And one of those two strikers is apparently going to be Danny Ings, a player who has what, ten goals this season? For a relegated Burnley side? Come on man, this is terrifying stuff.
This is sort of why I think you're trolling. I get the feeling that you genuinely think that having a team packed full of free transfers and U-18 players won't have horrific consequences, but...honestly, can you not see for yourself the kinds of situations that sort of transfer strategy would create?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
What's the alternative? Spend loads of money on not very good players, who raise expectations but never settle. Sack the manager when we are underperforming in November, and go through the whole 2 year cycle again.
We've been doing that crap for the last 25 years and getting nowhere.
Lets just have some patience and properly back this Ajax/Dortmund/Porto model we always talk about but never commit to.
what model do you talk of with those three clubs because i can't see any parallels with their transfer activities : Ajax rely heavily on youth, Dortmund spend big money most windows in the market and Porto import from south america and sell at big profits whilst reinvesting modestly.
we should learn from our mistakes definitely but we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater as we have got a lot right in the market over the years, we just need to be sensible. invest in potential whilst supplementing it with experience - don't take risks on high earners with dodgy reputations or big money transfers on players who have never kicked a ball in the premiership as we can't afford to take those kinds of risks as a club not established in the top 4.
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DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
You don't seem to understand: you are proposing that we weaken the team to such an extent that Southampton, Everton, Swansea and even Stoke will likely have stronger squads than us heading into the 2015-2016 season. Furthermore, you then say that this will be a welcome development to Poch's eyes, and would actually constitute 'backing' for Poch, as if it is a good thing that he will be expected to outdo not just the top four and Liverpool, but even S'oton and the other aforementioned clubs with a profoundly weak squad comprised of, among others, the so-called 'best' players from the Championship and even League One, to say nothing of the youth teamers all over the place.
Eh? A free transfer from relegated Burnley, a couple of lower-league players, a sprinkle of U-18s....and this is what constitutes progress? This is something that will satisfy Poch? This is something that will persuade Lloris and Eriksen that we have ambitions? Mate, what?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It's putting faith in Poch and the academy setup. Not reaching for the short-termist panic button
The chasing pack won't have stronger squads than us - we will gather pace as the group matures together. The next - Veljkovic, 2CV, KWP, Winks, Onomah, Alli, Pritchard, Oduwa - generation is supposed to be the best youth cohort since the United Class of 92. Lets give them the space to emerge, instead of blocking their paths with journeymen.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
I think we can discern who we are most keen to shift, in bold:
Of the rest I think we'll have to be flexible. In other words, we'll only sell if there are decent offers. Soldado will be hard to shift, and Stambouli probably a lot easier due to wage demands. But if we sell half of the unbold list, then that's 8 out the door. We might need to be creative and offer loans.
When Poch took over I was banging on about our midfield. It was, and probably still is, the key conundrum. Last summer we had too many similar level midfielders with none of them stand out, first on the team sheet players. If you think about it all that's changed now is we have even more midfielders! Bentaleb, Mason, Alli etc. While I think Poch wouldn't mind working with Stambouli, Dembele, Paulinho, Carroll we just have too many decent, not outstanding, players. And Dembele and Paulinho are likely on 40-50k wages as Finny outlined. The big question is, what does Poch think of Bentaleb and Mason? My guess is Bentaleb has a first team place. Yes he needs to develop, but Poch thinks he is good enough to do so. Mason is also in his squad plans, but we need one quality midfielder. The rest have to go.
Of the rest I think we'll have to be flexible. In other words, we'll only sell if there are decent offers. Soldado will be hard to shift, and Stambouli probably a lot easier due to wage demands. But if we sell half of the unbold list, then that's 8 out the door. We might need to be creative and offer loans.
When Poch took over I was banging on about our midfield. It was, and probably still is, the key conundrum. Last summer we had too many similar level midfielders with none of them stand out, first on the team sheet players. If you think about it all that's changed now is we have even more midfielders! Bentaleb, Mason, Alli etc. While I think Poch wouldn't mind working with Stambouli, Dembele, Paulinho, Carroll we just have too many decent, not outstanding, players. And Dembele and Paulinho are likely on 40-50k wages as Finny outlined. The big question is, what does Poch think of Bentaleb and Mason? My guess is Bentaleb has a first team place. Yes he needs to develop, but Poch thinks he is good enough to do so. Mason is also in his squad plans, but we need one quality midfielder. The rest have to go.
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Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I would be surprised if more than two of those make it with us and even if we were lucky enough for it to be 3 or 4 of them it would take a good 3 years.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Funny you should say that as I've just watched the Class of 92 and foumd it intriguing
The key for them was a drive from their coaches and we do appear to have a better level of coach at youth level know
The players recognised the need for sacrifices too which all highlighted as the biggest challenge for modern young players
We may well end up with an outstanding crop (looks like that vs their own age) but they could easily disappear into the lower leagues too
Personally I like the idea but we shouldn't weaken ourselves. If the youngsters are good enough they will get a chance and if we can sell enough dross to strengthen with genuine quality rather than semi social tube cheap imports then we could progress nicely
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
That is excessive hyperbole, imo, but I won't challenge that statement. What I will challenge is the (imo) lunacy of giving Poch a squad of free transfers, bargain bins and U18s and then claiming that doing so so involves us 'putting faith' in the guy. Yes, perhaps, in the same way that locking some ordinary schmoe in a warehouse full of ticking explosives can be portrayed as showing 'faith' in that person's escapist abilities: but it just looks like lunacy to most people.
You don't show faith in someone by putting him/her in an impossible situation that they themselves probably do not want, and then demanding that said person outperform other people placed in far more favorable situations to boot.
I agree, people overdo the youth/academy thing a great deal
There needs to be 3-4 real buys this summer, proven talent, some experience, ok to have potential upside, but really known product. Personal opinion is those would be CB, DM, Striker & RW.
Youth/Academy players should be leveraged more to add depth and unknown/wildcard equation to side
This season -> Dier, Mason, Bentaleb, Kane have made the step up. To expect those 4 to continue progress and to add even 1 or 2 more from the academy/youth ranks would be an amazing (and highly unlikely) achievement for a side in the top 6.
Even that class of 92, how many players was that?
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Butt, Neville (x2), Beckham, Scholes, Giggs (and I think Lee Sharpe and Robbie Savage were also part of that crop).
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
In truth it's a bit more spread out for us:
Townsend, Rose, Caulker and Mason were the class of 2008-9.
Kane, Livermore and Carroll were more 10-11
Bentaleb and Pritchard more 12-13
And Veljkovic, 2CV, KWP, Winks, Onomah, Oduwa 14-15
But that's the idea - a production line where every year 1-3 come into the first team squad.
The point is that because of the fantastic work of McDermott and Inglethorpe over the past decade, the players are getting better and more numerous with every cohort.
rosenthal
Sebastien Bassong
I've thought a lot about Chelsea's options up front when it comes to who we should have, considering we play one up front and the emergence of Harry Kane.
They have their one star striker who play if fit (Costa), a veteran back up player who is ready to fill in when needed and don't complain about lack of game time (Drogba), and then a third forward who's also capable of playing out wide (Remy)
If we manage to offload Soldado and Adebayor this summer then i'd like us to look at similiar options, with youth providing the additional depth if needed (Oduwa, Coulthirst).
For long I almost expected the versatile option to be Jay Rodriguez and was disappointed when he signed a new contract, now we're linked with Lavezzi
The veteran striker that immediately strike me is Miroslav Klose, who I believe is out of contract this summer. Think he could have an excellent impact on Harry Kane, and still produce the goods when called upon.
Our team is in need of some experience, and I'd love for both Klose and Cambiasso to sign on bosman and provide it in squad roles. I'd also consider signing them an investment in our youth - especially Bentaleb, Amos and Kane would improve with these guys
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
To me, it looks like we had four players emerge from our youth ranks in 2008-2009, three in 2010-2011, and two in 2012-2013 (although both those players only 'emerged' last season, imo), with Kane emerging this season. It's a regression more than an improvement in the quantity of youth players coming through. And then you claim that all those players mentioned above 'emerged' in 14-15: none of them (none) have impressed either out on loan or in the first-team/Europa League games we've been in, and none have managed to step up to take some squad spaces in a year when half our side was effectively exiled by the manager. And yet these are the players you want to hand Poch as reinforcements next season? This is the 'Class of '92' reborn?
Horribly illogical, mate. Surely even you can see that, when you're not tying yourself into logical knots: here on this thread you mention that the reason why you only want to toss Poch some bargain basement free transfers to work with is that doing so would 'provide a pathway to the first-team' for those youth players, but on the Transfer Rumour Thread, you say this...
So make up your mind: do you want us to go for the high wage bracket free transfers like Khedira and Milner (which was your justification for wanting us to spend literally nothing in transfer fees on the transfer rumor thread) or the bargain basement ones like Ings and Ayew to allow for youth to come through (which was your justification for wanting to spend nothing in this thread)? Or is it just that you'd happily see us finish 17th if it meant not spending a penny and filling the side with sub-standard U-18s and free transfers instead, 'backing' for Poch be damned?
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Of those that GB names IMO the only one who is remotely close to being ready for PL football is Veljkovic. The rest are all one (or in most cases) two loans away from even getting a chance.