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2015/16 Europa League - Round of 16: Borussia Dortmund

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I think the difference between an Adebayor and a Parker is that the latter would WANT to get out of the club if not being picked rather that sit around picking up his wages. Personally I would put Milner in the same category as Parker as he could easily stay on at Emirates Marketing Project, pick up his wages and no doubt pick up more trophies.

I think £15 million to £20 million over a 4 year period for a player of Milner's experience and proven quality in the Premier League is great value. To find better value that that it has to be something of a gamble from a foreign league. As an example consider Paulinho as a comparison. He cost us £17 million and I would imagine that he is on at least £40k a week in wages. Over a 4 year period that is a package £25 million.... Or put another way £5 million to £10 million more than the prior stated amount for Milner over the same 4 year period. I know which of the two players I would rather have in my squad.

Isn't Paulinho considered just about the worst value midfield signing we've ever made as a club at this point? And also considered a completely failed signing... If that is the comparison you have to go to to justify your point I'm not particularly convinced.
 
Do Sevilla, Dnipro, Fiorentina or Napoli? Probably not but they seem to be making a go at winning it. I agree with S1 when he said its all about a winning mentality and until Spurs develop one we'll all have to sit back and settle for best loser.

Fiorentina dropped their entire first team for their weekend Serie A game between the first and second legs of our game with them.
We were playing most of our second string.
 
Isn't Paulinho considered just about the worst value midfield signing we've ever made as a club at this point? And also considered a completely failed signing... If that is the comparison you have to go to to justify your point I'm not particularly convinced.
Surely that accolade should instead go to Capoue.... After all he makes Paulinho look like a decent player! We could also pick Lamela - after all he cost a whole £9 million more than Paulinho and probably earns another £500k to £1M each season in wages.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that while it's good to gamble with a few exciting signings from overseas, we shouldn't rule out getting the odd player who we know can come straight in and improve the team immediately. Those players will obviously cost a premium in terms of wages (especially if on a free transfer). Imagine how much our extremely young team could learn off of a Milner type of player?
 
Fiorentina dropped their entire first team for their weekend Serie A game between the first and second legs of our game with them.
We were playing most of our second string.
Didn't the Italian league also let them move one of their games to a Monday to give them the best chance of progressing?
 
Isn't Paulinho considered just about the worst value midfield signing we've ever made as a club at this point? And also considered a completely failed signing... If that is the comparison you have to go to to justify your point I'm not particularly convinced.

Bentley

Didn't the Italian league also let them move one of their games to a Monday to give them the best chance of progressing?

Yeah - it's a strange English quirk not rating the EL - teams and players from every other country take it very seriously.

I'm sure I read something the other day about Schar not being interested in us because we couldn't even compete with Basel in it - we're viewed as not good enough for the serious end of the EL, rather than too good for it
 
I didn't compare Milner to Adebayor in terms of their character. But we've seen in the past that a player can go from very effective to "get out" rather quickly when they start losing their pace in a position like that (Parker).

I wouldn't classify the above as "great value". Perhaps "just about acceptable value", but more likely "we should be able to find better value elsewhere". Which is why I don't think we'll end up signing him.
I'm not disagreeing with any of what you're saying, but it's still from a financial perspective. Better value means from a lower league or abroad, and invariably a year to settle in the PL (if at all). In that year we've had another transition, another wait for CL and our star player leaves. Then hopefully the 'better value' player eventually becomes our star player and...continues ad infinitum.
 
Should just be the u21s. Finish 5th or 6th and they'll go straight into the groups. Send the u21s mangered by the under 21 coach. Job done. Yes we'll go out in the groups. But we'd pretty much get the same money as going out in the next round (like we did this year).

Good idea. Do the EL have the 'rule' the Premier League has about having to play your best side?
 
I'm not disagreeing with any of what you're saying, but it's still from a financial perspective. Better value means from a lower league or abroad, and invariably a year to settle in the PL (if at all). In that year we've had another transition, another wait for CL and our star player leaves. Then hopefully the 'better value' player eventually becomes our star player and...continues ad infinitum.

I think Ings could be a great value deal from a (currently) PL club.

If we're going to really go all the way for a PL player for immediate impact and say "value schmalue" I would prefer it be Schneiderlin.
 
Fiorentina dropped their entire first team for their weekend Serie A game between the first and second legs of our game with them.
We were playing most of our second string.

Which to me says they wanted to win the EL more than we did. Again down to a winning mentality and accepting that winning the EL is more achievable than winning the league.
 
Which to me says they wanted to win the EL more than we did. Again down to a winning mentality and accepting that winning the EL is more achievable than winning the league.

Schhhhhh do you not know that its better to finish among the runners up ( top four) then to actually win a trophy, or at least it is for some. ;)
 
Which to me says they wanted to win the EL more than we did. Again down to a winning mentality and accepting that winning the EL is more achievable than winning the league.

I said at the time we should have played our first team and we didnt have a chance in the league. But we are never gonna take the competition seriously. With that in mind we shouldn't bother with it at all as far as I'm concerned.
 
The vicious cycle of being in a competition we might actually be able to win, the horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We will play the crap like Tromso and Maribor, at this point in the competition we use players on the fringes of the squad and it gives them a chance above reserve football to show what they can do. Whilst some were slagging off Harry Kane for being fudgeing useless and clumsy two seasons ago against some Cypriot part timers, I was watching with interest, to see players from our academy as well as other young talent brought in. Alongside the youth that will play, if we are in the CL our regular XI will be expected to perform in a European game as well as a tough premier league fixture so why not start practicing now? Obviously the quality of the opposition will be harder in the "Elite" European competition so we should find it even easier, if we are undone by the Cypriots or the Ukranians then we would have got royally fudgeed by quality opposition.

Oh but it matters more in the CL so the players will be more up for it I hear. We pay our players substantial wages to represent us on the football pitch, whether it's a pre season friendly or an FA Cup final they should feel the honour and privilege of being in this position and should show 100% commitment and pride in how they assert themselves. If we have got players that can't really be bothered because there's less of an appearance fee then we should simply get rid of the lazy fudgeers.

I hate to bring up Chelsea again, but when they dropped down in to the competition did they say "Actually, can't be arsed, let's take an arse raping and get ourselves out of this competition? No. They won it. Because they are winners. Our mentality of not wanting to be in a competition we might be able to win is fudgeing embarrassing, it really indicates how much our thinking as football fans has changed yet it's ourselves that are the problem. What fudgeing difference should playing on a Thursday and Sunday instead of a Saturday Wednesday? Is that really an argument against the Europa league?! Precious little flowers, having to play on a Thursday instead of a Wednesday, how can they cope?

What I have got out of the Europa league is seeing some good games at White Hart Lane, seeing Eriksen's first goal for Spurs against Tromso was definitely something I got out of it. Were you there? Would you have been if it was a champions league competition? And if so, does that tell you something about your mentality in support of our club. It's an honest question, please answer it if possible. If you are trying to claim we haven't benefited in terms of giving players game time to find form then there's barely any point continuing this discussion.

That's okay to "glow" in fondness for our run in the CL, I'm in no way saying I didn't enjoy it, but I think that many would suddenly be glowing about the EL if we did win it. Although we make it harder to do so with our ridiculous apathy towards it. I'm actually desperate for you to provide a thought out argument of why you feel the way about this, because although I am happy to talk about it in a reasonable manner, I find it an absolute fudgeing disgrace the way in which we perceive the competition, there appear to be many who yearn for us to emulate Arsenal, with the idea that supporting Spurs will only be worth it when we're able to jerk each other off whilst the "Champions" league theme music plays. Ooooooh the ambition. I feel like many who have this bizarre notion that EL is the thing stopping us from getting CL will be looking a bit silly with their trousers down and lube at the ready when we have a season out of Europa, yet don't surge to a majestic, high flying fourth place, what will we blame then? I'd say Bassong's suspension because it's as valid of an argument.


Ok, lets address these points one by one.

You don't need to be involved in the Europa league to blood players, thats what the League cup and the loan system is there for, and they'd probably get better experience playing in the championship then against pigfarmer fc.

I don't care if the players are up for it, I didn't make that point, but the average player we are looking to pursue in the xfer windows has little interest in playing in the Europa.

Don't bring up chelsea because they're in a different football stratosphere to us, like others have pointed out, their depth of squad means they are able to fight their battles on multiple fronts and thats my point about the Europa which I keep banging home, yeh players can play 3 times a week in the but that leads to more injuries and puts us at a disadvantage to who we're competing against in the league which should be our bread and butter.

Of course you see some good games in the EL, half the time its playing dross that are just trying to keep the score down but how have we progressed in any way playing in this competition? I don't really think it benefits us much to be honest, Lamela for example looked like Ronaldo against the cypriot team I've forgotten the name of but can't show anything like that sort of form against decent opposition.

I'm not a fan of the new anachronism either that finishing 4th is a success but I just don't think we can win the EL in its current format unless we get knocked out of both domestic cup competitions early on and I crave success for tottenham, I want people to recognise us as a force again, that won't come from reaching the semis and losing to Zenit, it'll come from being knocked out in the Champions League QF's by Real Madrid no less.
 
I would love us to get Schneiderlin.... Over a 4 year
Which to me says they wanted to win the EL more than we did. Again down to a winning mentality and accepting that winning the EL is more achievable than winning the league.
i wonder whether their Europa league run has affected their form though? I notice that they have just lost 5 games in a row and now sit 7th in Serie A after going along quite nicely beforehand. If they end up winning he Europa then it will definitely have been worth it. If they don't win it though then it looks like they might not make Europe at all next year.
 
i wonder whether their Europa league run has affected their form though? I notice that they have just lost 5 games in a row and now sit 7th in Serie A after going along quite nicely beforehand. If they end up winning he Europa then it will definitely have been worth it. If they don't win it though then it looks like they might not make Europe at all next year.

Since the 90s I remember Italian teams prioritising Europe over the league.

This is especially the case if the league leaders build up a bit of a gap in the first half of the season - the chasing pack switch their attention to other honours.
 
I said at the time we should have played our first team and we didnt have a chance in the league. But we are never gonna take the competition seriously. With that in mind we shouldn't bother with it at all as far as I'm concerned.

Bookmaker's odds at the time indicated that a top 4 finish was more likely for us than a EL win.
 
...The sheer amount of games really catches up with english teams who have to play in 2 domestic cup competitions already, to win the Europa requires a minimum of 6 extra games compared to reaching the CL final...
4th place: CL play-off to CL final = 15 games
5th place: EL group stage to EL final = 15 games
 
4th place: CL play-off to CL final = 15 games
5th place: EL group stage to EL final = 15 games

Said this before, the old " its lots more games" excuse is as big a myth as the " its harder to play Thursday/Sunday then on a Wednesday/ Saturday" and used by those who think we are above the EL and the chance to win a Trophy.
 
4th place: CL play-off to CL final = 15 games
5th place: EL group stage to EL final = 15 games

You play an extra 2-legged tie in the knockout phases of the EL (17 games total).

Also, unless you win a the FA Cup, you must partake in a playoff round of 2 legs - even if you come 5th (19 games total).

If you come 6th, you have to play the third qualifying round, a playoff, and then the usual 17 games (21 games total).

Not to mention the trips to far-flung places that usually aren't represented in the CL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_League#Format
 
Said this before, the old " its lots more games" excuse is as big a myth as the " its harder to play Thursday/Sunday then on a Wednesday/ Saturday" and used by those who think we are above the EL and the chance to win a Trophy.

And to add to the above here is " all the extra miles we fly in the EL gonads" this research was done by a fan who goes to all the EL games, now I have not done the checking but from my own travelling to these games I think he has the sums right.


Since we got back into Europe in 2006/07 we-have done the Following Europa League mileage: -



2006/07 to 4307 miles (861 average per game)

2007/08 to 5,308 miles (1,061 average per game)

2008/09 to 3547 miles (886 average per game)

2011/12 to 3941 miles (985 average per game)

2012/13 to 4651 miles (avaerage 775 per game)

2013/14 to 9,056 miles (1,509 average per game)



As you can see this season has-been an anomoly with us traveling 3748 miles more than we've ever done in one season before!



Over Our entire time in the Europa League over the above seasons (30 games) we-have on average Travelled 1,027 miles per game. If you take out this season All which has-been high abnormaly Then it works out at an average of 906 miles per game (24 games).



In contrast the average distance from London for the teams in this years CL group stage is 757 miles.



So leaving aside this seasons abnormaly long trips the average game away Europa is just 149 miles further than the average CL away game. To Put That in perspective it's about 20-30 minutes flying time along. Hardly I think that's going to make much difference!
 
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