WTF 9 year old girl with an uzi.....

[Mulletperm]

People don't tend to kill other people just because they own a gun in some weird "Well, I bought it, so I may as well use it" twist of logic.

They do it because they want the other person dead - that will happen with or without guns.

A lunatic with a grudge against the world will do a lot more damage with something like an AR-15 assault rifle than they would with a knife or baseball bat.

 

[Richie]

I can set all 4 of my guns on my kitchen table, loaded, and just watch them for years and they won't kill a single person. Now, if a stupid person comes and illegally takes the gun and does some stupid **** with it? Yeah, that I can't help.

Im generally on your side on the gun issue, guns are too engrained in American society for anything to change, but if someone is able to so steal your gun then by British standards you aren't a responsible gun owner. In the UK you need to keep firearms in a locked safe separate from ammunition, or you don't get to have them at all. That to me seems perfectly reasonable, but would be at odds of the idea of keeping a gun for home protection.

Personally I think you're right about a lot of things, and I think if you banned guns overnight the homicide rate would likely barely change as most people committing such crimes own them illegally anyway. You'd have to at least concede that the accidental death rate from guns would decrease substantially.

I think the biggest problem in the US in the perception that lawful possession of a gun makes the owner safer, which I don't think is true at all. I don't think your ownership of guns makes you any less or more likely to be a victim of gun violence, which is why I think banning guns would make little difference to homicide figures.

 

[Richie]

Jesus Christ there are actually people on here who think guns are not an issue in the States? This is probably the single most bewildering thing I've read on this board.

The best commentary I've seen on the issue (and it IS an issue) is this:

[video=youtube;9pOiOhxujsE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE[/video]

[video=youtube;TYbY45rHj8w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbY45rHj8w[/video]

[video=youtube;mVuspKSjfgA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuspKSjfgA[/video]

I really dislike the use of clips from shows like The Daily Show, Bill Maher etc... in these kinds of debates, these programs are comedies and are there to mock people. They all too often simplify the issue in an attempt to make the opposition argument look foolish, although with many NRA lobbyists I doubt it's that hard.

The pro-gun guy did make at least one good point, and that is the fact that Australian gun culture is very different to that of the US. A government must serve the will of the people, and in the States there is very little interest in Australian or UK style gun control. A group of politicians could implement them, but they'd be voted out and the laws reversed very quickly.

It's also fair to say that Australia naturally has a much tighter control over its borders. I'd be interested to know how many guns possessed illegally are a result of smuggling over the Mexican border. Either way I imagine if gun laws were tightened up it would lead to more guns being illegally imported.

 

[scaramanga]

A lunatic with a grudge against the world will do a lot more damage with something like an AR-15 assault rifle than they would with a knife or baseball bat.

That's true, but I suspect it's a rare case.
Doesn't make it right, but from a "stopping the worst harm" POV, taking guns away from criminals will do far more good than taking them away from (mostly responsible) legal owners.

 

[monkeybarry]

And people wonder why I didn't decide to stay in the US?!

I don't want to make this anti-US, as I love a lot about it, but the gun situation is ridiculous.
Your govt is not going to attack you, so you don't need the right to bear arms.
And if you do genuinely believe your govt is that way inclined and oppressive, surely its time to rise and create a new one?

 

[spasm]

@IowaSpur

All of these things you mention are fundamentally different from guns. Neither tobacco, alcohol or cars are weapons of war designed to kill people. Many things kill people, but a gun is specifically built for that purpose and is being used correctly when it does kill someone. A car is not being used correctly when it kills someone, and if someone wants to drink or smoke to death that's their business.

You say the problem is illegal guns, but most of the illegal guns started out legally, and work their way onto the black market.

America will be awash with guns for a long time yet, not a lot to say about it, other than it will only change when people stop getting a hard on by playing around with them.

good post..

 

[papaspur]

And people wonder why I didn't decide to stay in the US?!

I don't want to make this anti-US, as I love a lot about it, but the gun situation is ridiculous.
Your govt is not going to attack you, so you don't need the right to bear arms.
And if you do genuinely believe your govt is that way inclined and oppressive, surely its time to rise and create a new one?

glocks can't kill tanks? i wonder if i can buy mortars...

 

[johnola]

And people wonder why I didn't decide to stay in the US?!

I don't want to make this anti-US, as I love a lot about it, but the gun situation is ridiculous.
Your govt is not going to attack you, so you don't need the right to bear arms.
And if you do genuinely believe your govt is that way inclined and oppressive, surely its time to rise and create a new one?

Wasn't the recent brouhaha in Michigan the state v the people?

 

[billyiddo]

[video=youtube;EBpuLlw4Xjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EBpuLlw4Xjs[/video]

 

[Jurgen the German]

[video=youtube;okHwe36hZbk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHwe36hZbk[/video]

 

[thingonaspring]

Banning smoking, and chewing tobacco,
Banning alcohol
Banning planes
Banning cars

Do you see how absurd this can be?



I can set all 4 of my guns on my kitchen table, loaded, and just watch them for years and they won't kill a single person. Now, if a stupid person comes and illegally takes the gun and does some stupid **** with it? Yeah, that I can't help.

funny how all of those things mentioned (i'm going to take the line of driving a car and flying a plane) are all age restricted in some way.
just saying.


and if those guns weren't on your table to be taken in the first place, then that's exactly how it could be helped, surely?