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World Cup 2026: Mexico, USA and Canada

MartyFunkhouser said:
Garbage
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To be clear, I’m not saying there is no way we could have won. I am saying that there is no one perfect substitution or tactical plan that was guaranteed to nullify Messi and win it on its own. A lot of the talk has been about the space Messi found in the shape we had. But if we had a different shape, he would have found different space. The whole Argentina team moves around him.

Ultimately, at some point the players need to execute. And 12% possession after the first goal is a disaster way beyond tactics or subs. I feel they are getting off extremely lightly. You could tell after the first goal we pushed, but left the backline exposed and started acting nervously in our own box. I’m still not following how everyone has assumed it’s confirmed that Tuchel asked them to be that defensive, versus the players deciding they needed to fall back too. Especially considering multiple ex England players have talked about this exact dynamic, and especially considering it’s happened in 2018 and 2021 too. And on those occasions Southgate also said that the plan wasn’t to sit back and hit it long like they ended up doing.

I just think it’s odd that Tuchel is the complete spacegoat, and there seems no room for nuance in the debate around the game whatsoever. The whole country agrees with the simple explanation, and it is what it is.
 
harr1984 said:
He didn't tell them to do it, he said that wasn't the intention and even went back to give an example of how he wasn't happy when we went 2-1 up vs Croatia and reverted to a low block which he didn't like. But as has been said previously, many ex players has said it happens unintentionally getting deeper and deeper when under pressure against the wishes of the manager - and stems back to our ability to keep the ball.

Now obviously you can question/criticise why what Tuchel wanted wasn't translated onto the pitch but the idea that not just Tuchel, but 95% of managers want a team to go so deep when taking the lead is nonsense....
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Yes exactly, Tuchel has explicitly said he didn’t ask the players to do that. And yet the whole country seems to believe he did. So does it follow that everyone thinks Tuchel is bare faced lying?
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I suppose they meant to sit back and absorb pressure .... asking for it
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I don’t think it’s unreasonable to tell a team to sit in and don’t make mistakes.

Teams do it week in week out.

A different tactic may well have yielded a different result, but I think the players still need to be held accountable for their mistakes, both goals were shockers.
 
Baleforce said:
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to tell a team to sit in and don’t make mistakes.

Teams do it week in week out.

A different tactic may well have yielded a different result, but I think the players still need to be held accountable for their mistakes, both goals were shockers.7
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I think anyone reason would hold both into account, I don't want Tuchel sacked for one bad game either.

His subs were utterly ridiculous though and contributed to a negative feeling iMO
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
But this is where I keep coming back to, who says it was Tuchel that asked the players to do that? Because purely bringing on a third centre back does not also mean defend the box with 11 behind the ball.
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It's as much about who you don't bring on.
Saka was apparently fit.
Rashford was fit.
He had Reece James in midfield for 10 mins in order to accommodate an extra defender. He had a midfielder on the bench who profiled for what we needed.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that Tuchel was powerless and that this was a player/driven system collapse?

BTW, the guy cannot accept responsibility. It is a range of other faults, including English DNA. As the leader/manager/coach/mixologist of all we've looked to do for 2 years, does this mean his German DNA has been compromised?

He had two systems; speed and power in attack, wall in defense when pressure was on. That's it.
Without Bellingham and Kane we'd have been out in the group stages...
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Yes exactly, Tuchel has explicitly said he didn’t ask the players to do that. And yet the whole country seems to believe he did. So does it follow that everyone thinks Tuchel is bare faced lying?
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I think he is a gas-lighter, yes. IF this was a systemic issue, IF it was the same as previous tournaments (I don't agree with that BTW), then he had 2 years to prepare for such a potential moment.
Why is it so hard to accept what you saw? Or are you seeking balance for the ideal concept of balance?
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I think anyone reason would hold both into account, I don't want Tuchel sacked for one bad game either.

His subs were utterly ridiculous though and contributed to a negative feeling iMO
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He was limited in what he could bring on, partly his fault on squad selection (which I have criticised since the squad was confirmed), but also by what is actually available.

I think it’s to the credit of the manager and the few decent players he does have that England got so far.

I didn’t agree with the subs either, but if you are one of the eleven players on the pitch you still have to perform your role correctly. Some of them phoned it in.

I question the mentality of any player, who in that situation, can’t put a shift in and be perfect for 20 minutes.
 
Baleforce said:
He was limited in what he could bring on, partly his fault on squad selection (which I have criticised since the squad was confirmed), but also by what is actually available.

I think it’s to the credit of the manager and the few decent players he does have that England got so far.

I didn’t agree with the subs either, but if you are one of the eleven players on the pitch you still have to perform your role correctly. Some of them phoned it in.

I question the mentality of any player, who in that situation, can’t put a shift in and be perfect for 20 minutes.
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Not sure anyone phoned it in, we were devoid of outlets for them, its all well and good sitting back and taking a siege, but you have to be note perfect for too long, thats hard, massively hard. Not having legs to get the ball and keep it to get the team up the pitch or even give the defence a break is ridiculous. We literally played a 6 - 2 - 2
 
Baleforce said:
He was limited in what he could bring on, partly his fault on squad selection (which I have criticised since the squad was confirmed), but also by what is actually available.

I think it’s to the credit of the manager and the few decent players he does have that England got so far.

I didn’t agree with the subs either, but if you are one of the eleven players on the pitch you still have to perform your role correctly. Some of them phoned it in.

I question the mentality of any player, who in that situation, can’t put a shift in and be perfect for 20 minutes.
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They've just said in the studio it's a mentality thing regarding dropping deeper and deeper. Even Kanes interview said they constantly spoke past few weeks about not taking the lead and dropping deeper but 'easier said than done'.

Questioning the subs are fair game, but the retreating was not an instruction of the manager and nothing that's not been seen a hundred times before from an England team....
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Not sure anyone phoned it in, we were devoid of outlets for them, its all well and good sitting back and taking a siege, but you have to be note perfect for too long, thats hard, massively hard. Not having legs to get the ball and keep it to get the team up the pitch or even give the defence a break is ridiculous. We literally played a 6 - 2 - 2
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it is massively hard yes, but that was the plan, and possible, had individuals not made errors

anyway @MartyFunkhouser , I think we have done this to death without moving the other's opinion at all, fair enough, lets enjoy the final, hopefully a 0-0 and penalties
 
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