What Would You Do? - Summer Ins and Out

[Yiddo]

I'll go with the flow.

Outs

Dawson - 7
Naughton - 3.5
BAE - 4.4
Livermore - 2.2
Townsend - 6.2
Kane - Loan

= 23.3m

In

Badelj - 4.4
Finnbogason - 7.9
Ben Davies - 4.8
Calum Chambers - 1.8
Caulker - 6.6

= 25.5m


Team

Lloris

Walker Kaboul Verts Davies

Sandro
Badelj Dembele

Lamela Ade Eriksen​

 

[SpurMeUp]

Out: Sig, Holtby, Livermore, Naughton, and Capoue and Kaboul if the right offers come in for them.

In:

-One player who can compete and/or cover both fullbacks.
-A manager to settle a team.
-Possibly a CB.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Out: Sig, Holtby, Livermore, Naughton, and Capoue and Kaboul if the right offers come in for them.

In:

-One player who can compete and/or cover both fullbacks.
-A manager to settle a team.
-Possibly a CB.

You think we can lose 3 of our 6/7 CMs?

Are you wanting to play only two CMs (4-4-2), or do you think Carroll and Bentaleb are ready for promotion (cf lower EPL loans)?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Sandro, Dembele, Paulinho, Bentaleb, Carol, as well as Chadli and Eriksen who are able to play in the middle is more than enough no? I might keep Capoue, he hasn't had much of a run out. But with Capoue that's 8 players, for two or three positions, more than enough.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Sandro, Dembele, Paulinho, Bentaleb, Carol, as well as Chadli and Eriksen who are able to play in the middle is more than enough no? I might keep Capoue, he hasn't had much of a run out. But with Capoue that's 8 players, for two or three positions, more than enough.

Not for 4-3-3 IMO.

You need proper domineering CMs in that, especially as they'll need to drop in to defence because of the overlapping fullbacks. I'd always have two of Sandro, Paulinho, Capoue and Dembele. Then Eriksen or Holtby as the third one.

Personally I don't think Bentaleb and Carroll are near ready for this level yet. I'd like to see them both get prem loans next season and re-evaluate the following summer.

Siggy for me is the one CM I can't find room for/who I think is totally superfluous. I'd be up for upgrade Dembele too. But for me I'd want 6 senior CMs (for 3 positions).

 

[Yiddo]

Not for 4-3-3 IMO.

You need proper domineering CMs in that, especially as they'll need to drop in to defence because of the overlapping fullbacks. I'd always have two of Sandro, Paulinho, Capoue and Dembele. Then Eriksen or Holtby as the third one.

Personally I don't think Bentaleb and Carroll are near ready for this level yet. I'd like to see them both get prem loans next season and re-evaluate the following summer.

Siggy for me is the one CM I can't find room for/who I think is totally superfluous. I'd be up for upgrade Dembele too. But for me I'd want 6 senior CMs (for 3 positions).

Who says we are going to play 4-3-3??? Pretty sure in the summer you were talking about us playing 4-3-3 this season and i have not seen it very often.

 

[braineclipse]

Not for 4-3-3 IMO.

You need proper domineering CMs in that, especially as they'll need to drop in to defence because of the overlapping fullbacks. I'd always have two of Sandro, Paulinho, Capoue and Dembele. Then Eriksen or Holtby as the third one.

Personally I don't think Bentaleb and Carroll are near ready for this level yet. I'd like to see them both get prem loans next season and re-evaluate the following summer.

Siggy for me is the one CM I can't find room for/who I think is totally superfluous. I'd be up for upgrade Dembele too. But for me I'd want 6 senior CMs (for 3 positions).

Assuming Sherwood is gone, do you think a new manager like FdB or Pochettino would be able to get the kind of passing play they want from two out of Sandro, Paulinho, Capoue and Dembele. Or in other words has it just been from a failing of our managers this season that those players haven't been able to contribute towards that? Or might we have to look for some fresh players?

I agree about 6 players for a midfield 3, but I think at least 1, possibly 2, of those can be younger players like Bentaleb and Carroll. And I actually think that's better for squad harmony. Look at Holtby this season, out on loan because he didn't get enough games. And that's with massive injury problems in the squad.

Depends on who our manager will be, but quite a few managers seem to prefer working with slightly slimmer squads rather than the "double cover for all positions" approach seemingly wanted by Emirates Marketing Project for example. I think a lot of that is because of squad harmony and because a double cover approach means that some of the cover players will be lacking in match experience come the time when they're needed.

I think with Sandro as a first choice DM a player like Dembele is capable of being both his cover as DM and also an option for a more box to box role. Then have a different type of player come in to give us the option of another passer in midfield. Options, options options, not first choice and backups (not saying that's what you're advocating).

It's tough to pick the ins and outs for me because our midfielders are a bit much of a muchness Not much between them in terms of who should leave. I would probably say a midfield 6 of: Sandro, Dembele, Eriksen, Holtby, Bentaleb along with one new creative passing type would do the trick. Although I wouldn't be against keeping Paulinho or Capoue instead of Dembele or Holtby for example.

Eriksen would then also be an option for the wide left role, if another wide left option is Chadli that would also give us another player that can cover central positions so beyond those 6 listed we would have one more option at least without dipping into the reserves or changing formations. Would also mean that if we go with 2 strikers for a period (or consistently for that matter) we won't have 4 first team central midfielders sitting around doing **** all, regressing and getting sick of their situation.

I would possibly even argue that Carroll replacing Holtby in that (instead of going on loan again) could be even better...

Difficult decisions for sure...

 

[Cochise]

You could argue that the 4231 is a dervative of 433 I guess, but I do agree with GB when he says we are likely to setup with three CM's. Most of the top candidates for our 1st team coach post we have been linked with play 433 (FDB, LVG) or 4231 (Pochettino), whilst the coaches that may use two strikers (Allegri, Moyes) are not at the front of the pecking order. I'd say it's a safe bet in this thread to work on a similar assumption.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Who says we are going to play 4-3-3??? Pretty sure in the summer you were talking about us playing 4-3-3 this season and i have not seen it very often.

vFDB, Poch and LVG are all exponents of it. Benitez plays 4-2-3-1. But that's still 3 out of the 4 candidates who play 4-3-3.

Our squad is really built for 4-3-3 too - Lennon is the only player in our squad who it doesn't suit.

I still think AVB would have moved to it if he'd had a LB. He spoke that his two formations would be 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 and that he'd switch between using a #10 and not, so it was obviously very much in his mind.

 

[SpurMeUp]

For me, Bentaleb is ready to play a bit part (and potentially work his way into a first team spot). Paulinho, Sandro, Dembele, Capoue, Chadli and Bentaleb is 6, Eriksen 7, and with Carol 8. The eighth wouldn't get many starts until they prove themselves. Chadli maybe a fantastic midfielder - not setting things alight regularly out wide, he can dribble, pick a pass, get forward and shoot. Big and strong, he can defend the likes of wham and stoke.

One of Holtby or Capoue should be sold as well as Sig. Or both if the right offers come in. Especially if the manager thinks we need a new midfielder with better passing ability.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Assuming Sherwood is gone, do you think a new manager like FdB or Pochettino would be able to get the kind of passing play they want from two out of Sandro, Paulinho, Capoue and Dembele. Or in other words has it just been from a failing of our managers this season that those players haven't been able to contribute towards that? Or might we have to look for some fresh players?

I agree about 6 players for a midfield 3, but I think at least 1, possibly 2, of those can be younger players like Bentaleb and Carroll. And I actually think that's better for squad harmony. Look at Holtby this season, out on loan because he didn't get enough games. And that's with massive injury problems in the squad.

Depends on who our manager will be, but quite a few managers seem to prefer working with slightly slimmer squads rather than the "double cover for all positions" approach seemingly wanted by Emirates Marketing Project for example. I think a lot of that is because of squad harmony and because a double cover approach means that some of the cover players will be lacking in match experience come the time when they're needed.

I think with Sandro as a first choice DM a player like Dembele is capable of being both his cover as DM and also an option for a more box to box role. Then have a different type of player come in to give us the option of another passer in midfield. Options, options options, not first choice and backups (not saying that's what you're advocating).

It's tough to pick the ins and outs for me because our midfielders are a bit much of a muchness Not much between them in terms of who should leave. I would probably say a midfield 6 of: Sandro, Dembele, Eriksen, Holtby, Bentaleb along with one new creative passing type would do the trick. Although I wouldn't be against keeping Paulinho or Capoue instead of Dembele or Holtby for example.

Eriksen would then also be an option for the wide left role, if another wide left option is Chadli that would also give us another player that can cover central positions so beyond those 6 listed we would have one more option at least without dipping into the reserves or changing formations. Would also mean that if we go with 2 strikers for a period (or consistently for that matter) we won't have 4 first team central midfielders sitting around doing **** all, regressing and getting sick of their situation.

I would possibly even argue that Carroll replacing Holtby in that (instead of going on loan again) could be even better...

Difficult decisions for sure...

We know Sandro and Paulinho can do quick short passing as they do it regularly for Brazil. I don't think Capoue is a bad ball player either. Dembele for me is the one who is a bit of a disabler for us, and I would look to switch him for a deep-sitting ballplayer like Claise if possible.

For me the beauty of Holtby (like you say about Eriksen) is that they can play as a wide forward as well (he played wide right last time I watched Fulham).

I think all teams playing in Europe need 22 senior players. Only without it can you get away with an 18 man squad. If you use your squad well, you can keep 22 happy (Holtby and Eriksen were interchanging under AVB - it was Timmeh who wanted Holtby out).

Carroll's injuries and slow progress at QPR since has meant he's not come on this year. I think he needs to get some serious football under his belt (ideally in the prem rather than the championship; remember he's still not played 50 competitive matches yet over his 3 loans combined).

 

[Cochise]

Agree on Carroll. Before he went out on loan to QPR I had been impressed with him, but this year in the Championship he hasn't looked as good. I'd rather see him back with us working under our manager next season.

 

[braineclipse]

We know Sandro and Paulinho can do quick short passing as they do it regularly for Brazil. I don't think Capoue is a bad ball player either. Dembele for me is the one who is a bit of a disabler for us, and I would look to switch him for a deep-sitting ballplayer like Claise if possible.

For me the beauty of Holtby (like you say about Eriksen) is that they can play as a wide forward as well (he played wide right last time I watched Fulham).

I think all teams playing in Europe need 22 senior players. Only without it can you get away with an 18 man squad. If you use your squad well, you can keep 22 happy (Holtby and Eriksen were interchanging under AVB - it was Timmeh who wanted Holtby out).

Carroll's injuries and slow progress at QPR since has meant he's not come on this year. I think he needs to get some serious football under his belt (ideally in the prem rather than the championship; remember he's still not played 50 competitive matches yet over his 3 loans combined).

When I watched Brazil last summer in the conferderations cup it was Primarily their centre backs along with Luiz Gustavo who were responsible for their buildup play from the back. They looked for passes to the creative attacking 4 and full backs. Paulinho largely drifted in and out of games and wasn't involved much in their buildup play. Internationals are a bit different anyway, often deep midfielders will get more time. If we want to be able to play through pressure I don't think Brazil internationals are illustrative.

I'm confused about Capoue. Started really well I thought, but then drifted dramatically. I would be willing to give him time for sure as I think there's a real player in there. But if we bring in another central midfielder and we want to give gametime to Bentaleb (I think we should) we have to cut somewhere.

22 senior players, that means 6 central midfielders? I Want to see some pictures of my cat? But I think we can start counting Bentaleb as a senior player at least. And I would like to see us move more towards giving some youngsters game time in the EL if we qualify. So I think a player like Carroll could do a job in that tournament at the very least.

 

[Cochise]

Anyone else want to see Pritchard as our no.2 LWF if we can't find him a decent loan option?? I have only watched highlights from the League 1 this season and some of his games for the U21's the year before but I genuinely think with the right guidance in a football playing team, this lad could come along quite nicely.

 

[braineclipse]

Agree on Carroll. Before he went out on loan to QPR I had been impressed with him, but this year in the Championship he hasn't looked as good. I'd rather see him back with us working under our manager next season.

Getting close to off topic, but I'm interested as you've been watching them a bit.

I've seen very contradicting reports on Carroll, which in a way isn't surprising to me. He's the kind of player that usually seems to sit a bit deep and control play. Give him the number 10 shirt and say he's on loan from Spurs after what Townsend did last season and I think a lot of expectations will unrealistically be set for the kid.

My question is more about style of play. At least some reports I've seen have stressed that QPR haven't managed to play pretty football. That it's been more push and run than pass and move and direct play bypassing midfield. What's your take on that?

For me Carroll depends on a team and system that fits him. If he goes on loan again next season that should be our first priority. Might sound a bit strange, but I would rather see him go on loan to a smaller league than to see him struggle away at Norwich or Villa watching hoofballs flying over his head.

Anyone else want to see Pritchard as our no.2 LWF if we can't find him a decent loan option?? I have only watched highlights from the League 1 this season and some of his games for the U21's the year before but I genuinely think with the right guidance in a football playing team, this lad could come along quite nicely.

Interesting question.

My gut reaction is "no" and that he will need a loan at a higher level before can expect him to make an impact for us.

Same as for Carroll he needs the right type of loan, why I think he was sent to Swindon in League one when there was clear interest from the Championship.

Wouldn't be against both him and Carroll staying at Spurs at least for the first half of the season and us just saying "right, you'll play all of the EL group stage games, the Carling cup game(s) and occasionally get a run out in the league. If we can't find them the right loan deal.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Anyone else want to see Pritchard as our no.2 LWF if we can't find him a decent loan option?? I have only watched highlights from the League 1 this season and some of his games for the U21's the year before but I genuinely think with the right guidance in a football playing team, this lad could come along quite nicely.

No. I want Chadli as our no.2 LWF, because I think we really need a new no.1 LWF (Konoplyanka, Griezmann or Fischer etc.).

I'm all for bringing through young players, but they have do it at the right time (for their sake, as well as ours). I want them to get a good 18-24 months regular football in the championship and EPL before they feature for us. This worked very well with Walker and Townsend, and to a lesser extent Rose.

For me Carroll and Bentaleb are still a good year off it. And Pritchard, Ceballos and Coulthirst are probably two years away.

 

[braineclipse]

No. I want Chadli as our no.2 LWF, because I think we really need a new no.1 LWF (Konoplyanka, Griezmann or Fischer etc.).

I'm all for bringing through young players, but they have do it at the right time (for their sake, as well as ours). I want them to get a good 18-24 months regular football in the championship and EPL before they feature for us. This worked very well with Walker and Townsend, and to a lesser extent Rose.

For me Carroll and Bentaleb are still a good year off it. And Pritchard, Ceballos and Coulthirst are probably two years away.

I think if young players are showing themselves up for it we should be brave and give them chances. One of the things I've liked about Sherwood.

Bentaleb has at very least shown himself to be at a PL level already, and he's only 19. Assuming a new manager like Poch, FdB or LvG that wants us to play a particular system and has shown himself very capable of bringing through young players and developing players. I think that along with our supposedly world class training centre adds a lot of value to keeping young players at the club and giving them match time here over sending them out to a club with inferior facilities, working under what should be inferior managers playing a different system.

I think a lot of the younger players used by Ferguson at his time at United, by Wenger at Arsenal, by Liverpool this and last season, by Dortmund and by Barca would have fit your "a good year off it" description. We're not in the same situation as all those clubs, but as it now looks like we're starting to produce good youngsters I think we should also be brave with integrating those players into the squad.

 

[Cochise]

I'm not going to pretend that I have watched a lot of QPR games but if I had to put a number to it I'd say I've watched Carroll play around 5-10 times this season for teams other than Spurs (QPR and England U21's). For the U21's he was deployed in what was more of a #10 role knitting play together between the midfield and attack. He probably should've had a couple of goals and assists from those games but the shooting quality of the team and himself was poor in those games. For QPR he has been given the job of being one of the deeper midfielders and seems to drift in and out of games. A lot of their fans (reading forums etc) say all he does is pass it sideways and offers next to nothing defensively. Morrison is their #10 and has a free role, yet everytime I have seen Carroll get into positions around the box he has had the ability to pick out a pass to the striker. I honestly don't think he is a good fit for QPR and is not good in the role Redknapp has him playing.


Edit: On reading a few QPR forums I have found the hate they have for him amazing. They really, really don't rate him and think he'll never be Premier League standard.

 

[Kingdawson]

btw i would take Ben Arfa if we don't sign Rakitic.

 

[Nezza]

btw i would take Ben Arfa if we don't sign Rakitic.

Currently getting the "AVB-Ade" treatment from Pardew.