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Tottenham vs Orient OMT

Raziel said:
He didn't stand out against a league 2 side in preseason and made too many mistakes.

Not bricking on the guy, but this is why he struggles to get game time, with his quality at that level he should be a stand out, he wasn't. Yes the effort was there, but effort is a minimum bar.

I know people will bitch about this statement, but Lucas looked like a player from a different level yesterday, and I'm sure if we had stuck in Lamela it would have been the same, able to be above lower level opposition.
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Lamela? Likely to have stood out for holding onto the ball for too long, refusing to use his right foot, doing 5 foot rolls over the ball for no reason every time he received it and then losing it.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Lamela? Likely to have stood out for holding onto the ball for too long, refusing to use his right foot, doing 5 foot rolls over the ball for no reason every time he received it and then losing it.
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He would do a better job against garbage teams than Winks/Dele seem to manage to (Lamela actually has more goals in cups than Dele for us, more than half his goals have come in cups)

As you often take the contradictory view to anything I say, I'm not making an argument that Lamela is a better player than Dele, it's that Lucas and Lamela seemingly can impose themselves on lower level opposition where Dele seems to struggle, hence since he's not impressing, it's hard to justify playing him at an even higher level.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Lamela? Likely to have stood out for holding onto the ball for too long, refusing to use his right foot, doing 5 foot rolls over the ball for no reason every time he received it and then losing it.
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When is we Olise going for £8m and think we could get doubles that for lamela …. I have to say shipping him off ASAP is quite key
 
Raziel said:
He would do a better job against garbage teams than Winks/Dele seem to manage to (Lamela actually has more goals in cups than Dele for us, more than half his goals have come in cups)

As you often take the contradictory view to anything I say, I'm not making an argument that Lamela is a better player than Dele, it's that Lucas and Lamela seemingly can impose themselves on lower level opposition where Dele seems to struggle, hence since he's not impressing, it's hard to justify playing him at an even higher level.
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Its a lot easier to argue selecting and off form Dele instead of a one footed Lamela who's one attribute appears to be kicking people. I had high Hope's for Lamela but he still hasn't scored more goals for us than he did for Roma and he's played almost twice as many games.
 
All depends on who’s interested, but I’d sell Dele and keep Lamela. Lamela won’t raise much in funds and he’s an accomplished squad player who can deliver. When he’s on form he’s not bad (and a waste of space when off form or injured). Dele maybe has some cache still. Is only 25 and should offer a lot. Whether any one would fork out 30m+ idk? Where would you peg his value?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Raziel said:
He would do a better job against garbage teams than Winks/Dele seem to manage to (Lamela actually has more goals in cups than Dele for us, more than half his goals have come in cups)

As you often take the contradictory view to anything I say, I'm not making an argument that Lamela is a better player than Dele, it's that Lucas and Lamela seemingly can impose themselves on lower level opposition where Dele seems to struggle, hence since he's not impressing, it's hard to justify playing him at an even higher level.
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Dele has proven himself to be an excellent player numerous times against PL opposition…. Lamela far less often.
 
SpurMeUp said:
All depends on who’s interested, but I’d sell Dele and keep Lamela. Lamela won’t raise much in funds and he’s an accomplished squad player who can deliver. When he’s on form he’s not bad (and a waste of space when off form or injured). Dele maybe has some cache still. Is only 25 and should offer a lot. Whether any one would fork out 30m+ idk? Where would you peg his value?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Dele has proven that he is of high enough standard to be a brilliant player in the PL. Lamela has proven that he isn’t.

If we actually want to be finishing in the top echelons of the PL then we should first get rid of the players that we know aren’t good enough before moving on to the ones that have proven they can be. Otherwise there is a big risk of ending up with a whole squad of not good enough players (especially with our policy of never buying top players from the PL).
 
Finney Is Back said:
Dele has proven that he is of high enough standard to be a brilliant player in the PL. Lamela has proven that he isn’t.

If we actually want to be finishing in the top echelons of the PL then we should first get rid of the players that we know aren’t good enough before moving on to the ones that have proven they can be. Otherwise there is a big risk of ending up with a whole squad of not good enough players (especially with our policy of never buying top players from the PL).
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As outlined previously, I think Dele needs a particular setup and people to play-off for him to show his best. Even when everything was flying for him under Poch, he'd spend most of the 90 frustrating, but then come up with a magic goal or assist. To be honest it didn't look sustainable even then, but with Eriksen and Kane it worked. You obviously think he has value, so where would you peg his value at? Dele is not a guaranteed starter yet would command a decent fee that we could reinvest.
 
There were some suggestions Nuno was preparing players to press high (could have just been a way to train the teams fitness so take with a pinch of sodium chloride). But if we do play with a high press, I think it does suit Dele's game. He can try stuff, it not work out, and we can press and win the ball back. Often under Poch goals came from giving up possession, and forcing mistakes when pressing.
 
parklane1 said:
I would try and sell both Alli and Lamela.
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Lamela yes. Alli I would give one more season. If he doesn’t produce then that is four managers he has regressed under (Poch, Southgate, Jose, Nuno) or four managers who he has stagnated under. I think a lot of people still think the Alli of today is the Alli we all know and loved from 2017.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Lamela yes. Alli I would give one more season. If he doesn’t produce then that is four managers he has regressed under (Poch, Southgate, Jose, Nuno) or four managers who he has stagnated under. I think a lot of people still think the Alli of today is the Alli we all know and loved from 2017.
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The problem with that is he would be worth even less if he bombs again. Not sure how much we can get for him now but another season of poor form will see him worth less.
 
parklane1 said:
The problem with that is he would be worth even less if he bombs again. Not sure how much we can get for him now but another season of poor form will see him worth less.
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Alli or lamela?

Have you seen how much Palace have just paid for an unproven kid?

dele would never go “cheap”.

lamela we would take whatever we can for him now due to his injury record
 
Finney Is Back said:
Dele has proven that he is of high enough standard to be a brilliant player in the PL. Lamela has proven that he isn’t.

If we actually want to be finishing in the top echelons of the PL then we should first get rid of the players that we know aren’t good enough before moving on to the ones that have proven they can be. Otherwise there is a big risk of ending up with a whole squad of not good enough players (especially with our policy of never buying top players from the PL).
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When? Bale used to tear apart the best teams in the world for fun, now?

You really don't read anything I write, you just read two words and decide on an opposite view. my point
- Dele isn't in first team
- He gets a chance against lesser opposition, he fudges it up (unlike Lucas and Lamela who often play well at lower levels and data backs that up)
- If he fudges up, how do you justify giving him a run at top level? because he used to? that is the same fudging reason Dier & Winks are here, because they used to be half decent.

Dele, Winks, Dier, Sanchez, Lamela, Sissoko, Doherty, Davies should all be sold in the order of who gets an offer first.
 
Raziel said:
When? Bale used to tear apart the best teams in the world for fun, now?

You really don't read anything I write, you just read two words and decide on an opposite view. my point
- Dele isn't in first team
- He gets a chance against lesser opposition, he fudges it up (unlike Lucas and Lamela who often play well at lower levels and data backs that up)
- If he fudges up, how do you justify giving him a run at top level? because he used to? that is the same fudging reason Dier & Winks are here, because they used to be half decent.

Dele, Winks, Dier, Sanchez, Lamela, Sissoko, Doherty, Davies should all be sold in the order of who gets an offer first.
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My fairness, this is a general reply to those who feel Dele should be sold versus those who don't (I am in the latter camp).
My points.

-Lamela wasn't a first team regular either, and that was despite being one of the players Mourinho liked. Dele was always onto a bomb with Mourinho, thus unfair to judge his status based on that time-frame.
- Lesser opposition chances and he fudges it up? You sure he does any more than anyone does in the eyes of expectant supporters? He repeatedly played well in the EL until Xmas when it was clear he wanted to go to Paris to be with Poch, Mourinho wanted him out but DL refused. FWIW one of the goals he scored (bicycle against Wolfsberger) is a contender for UEFA Goal of the Season.
-Depends on your definition of 'fudges up' I suppose. I remember a player who for several seasons showed skill, intelligence and workrate which earmarked him as a brilliant talent. Injuries and that old demon drop in form for a young superstar hit him, and he certainly needed to pick himself up and get his brick together too. It appears he has endeavored to take that path. If he finds similar form to before, he is an 80 mill player minimum. Natural talent and pitch intelligence like his is rare. You do all you can to reignite it, and with the player himself now back on board, I think selling him would be an enormous mistake.
 
SpurMeUp said:
As outlined previously, I think Dele needs a particular setup and people to play-off for him to show his best. Even when everything was flying for him under Poch, he'd spend most of the 90 frustrating, but then come up with a magic goal or assist. To be honest it didn't look sustainable even then, but with Eriksen and Kane it worked. You obviously think he has value, so where would you peg his value at? Dele is not a guaranteed starter yet would command a decent fee that we could reinvest.
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This is a good summary of the Dele situation imo.

He has proven himself to be pretty reliant on having other top quality players around him. I did some analysis previously on how his dips in form always aligned to Kane/Eriksen being out of the team, and Son also.

The BIG + with Dele is that his ceiling is so high when we do have all the ingredients in the team and can play in a way that suits him. Last season even with limited game time he made so many runs into the box that Eriksen previously would have found but the current midfield just recycled and passed sideways - and you could see Dele frustrated. And touching on the above point about relying on other players, he didn’t get a whole lot of ‘Kane time’ last season - most of his minutes before the end of the season were in the lesser games - similar to the Orient game.

If people think Dele should be able to go out and rip it up on his own against Orient then they really havent acknowledged the type of player that he is over the last 5 years. Someone like Son or Moura could totally do that. Dele on the other hand needs class around him - but the rewards are high when that is the case.

With Bale going I really hoped we could solve the Eriksen puzzle and maybe find a player that could knit things together - it screams Lamela but he can’t be relied upon.

Going back a few seasons we managed to get in Kane, Son, Dele, Eriksen and because they were all good players they would swap around and we would never look out of shape. Since Eriksen went downhill/left we haven’t been able to fix that.
 
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