Tottenham vs Manchester United OMT

[billyiddo]

And Chelsea weren’t when they sacked Lampard. There still in it
I’m just referencing the example Finney is using

You said Jose got us back in to Europe, i was just pointing out we were never out of Europe.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If a club running a debt to turnover ratio of over 2 to 1 can structure its debt to be on a mixture of terms at a decent rate of interest then why can another club (with a bigger turnover) not do so even though they are running a debt to turover ratio of less than half of that?

How would Man Utd fund a £200m acquisition of Kane?.... Well they could do so simply by turning their debt to turnover ratio from 0.89 to 1 to 1.29 to 1.... Still comfortably below our ratio.

(not that Kane's transfer fee will be anywhere near £200m anyway IMO).

You either have to accept that Man Utd can easily afford Kane if they want him or accept that we are running an unsustainable level of debt mate.... you can't have it both ways.

So United can buy Kane by borrowing more money?
Yep
Would be great business sense to increase their debt by 25% to buy a 28 year old
Hey... they might
It’s a £200m transfer because of his wages, transfer fees and bonuses
You said yourself what you thought he would have to get paid on the Kane thread

 

[Junior19]

If only we had one of those at the club, like a Toby Alderweireld for example.

The problem with Toby is who do you play him with! He will take the right hand spot as his. He has not been able to organize the defense as well as we could like. I totally agree, he is the best ballplaying centerback we've got at the moment, and should play much more then he has this season. But the future solution to our problem? Not quite.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The problem with Toby is who do you play him with! He will take the right hand spot as his. He has not been able to organize the defense as well as we could like. I totally agree, he is the best ballplaying centerback we've got at the moment, and should play much more then he has this season. But the future solution to our problem? Not quite.

Toby also struggled against physical players and pacey players

 

[Junior19]

Toby also struggled against physical players and pacey players

He'd be fine against Peter Crouch, then...

 

[Finney Is Back]

True
Although when we sacked Poch after a record transfer people said it was bad
And Jose came in and got us back into Europe

You say 'back in' like we had been out of it?

I think the difference between Lampard's £169m net spend on transfers and Pochettino's £69m net spend on transfers (aside from a whopping £100 million) was that Lampard actually got to use his signings for half a season.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Assets
It’s what you secure the debt on
But they would well do it as you say
Still doesn’t give them money to spend now
I mean that’s the key
Same problem we have

Mate.... If Man Utd wanted to borrow another £200m then they would have no problem at all finding that finance. It absolutely gives them the money to spend now. If they decide they want Kane above all others then they would be able to fund just about any amount to purchase him. The problem is more likely to lie in the fact that Levy will demand something that a huge amount above Kane's actual value. I think it is that which may cause some ructions this summer (if Kane does want to go).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You say 'back in' like we had been out of it?

I think the difference between Lampard's £169m net spend on transfers and Pochettino's £75m net spend on transfers (aside from a whopping £94 million) was that Lampard actually got to use his signings for half a season.

Sorry your relating Lampard half a season Poch whole time here then... ok then!!!
Hey I didnt want Poch gone
The board acted quickly to fix a negative position (exactly as Chelsea did) and we got a better league position (exactly what Chelsea have so far)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Mate.... If Man Utd wanted to borrow another £200m then they would have no problem at all finding that finance. It absolutely gives them the money to spend now. If they decide they want Kane above all others then they would be able to fund just about any amount to purchase him. The problem is more likely to lie in the fact that Levy will demand something that a huge amount above Kane's actual value. I think it is that which may cause some ructions this summer (if Kane does want to go).

I agree
I just don’t see a club that’s run for the money it makes it’s owners getting into more debt to buy quickly depreciating asset
They may... but I don’t think they will

 

[Finney Is Back]

So United can buy Kane by borrowing more money?
Yep
Would be great business sense to increase their debt by 25% to buy a 28 year old
Hey... they might
It’s a £200m transfer because of his wages, transfer fees and bonuses
You said yourself what you thought he would have to get paid on the Kane thread

Ah I see.... So they wouldn't actually have to add £200m of debt to buy him.... Just the transfer fee. Let's say that transfer fee is £130m. That would elevate Man Utd's debt level to 1.35 to 1... a huge magnitude lower than ours.

Also if you're saying it is a bad move for Man Utd to add that debt to buy Harry Kane (which I think you are saying?) then by that same metric surely it would also be bad business sense for us to keep him? You can't have both sides of the coin mate. You need to pick a side of the argument and stick to it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The problem with Toby is who do you play him with! He will take the right hand spot as his. He has not been able to organize the defense as well as we could like. I totally agree, he is the best ballplaying centerback we've got at the moment, and should play much more then he has this season. But the future solution to our problem? Not quite.

I've been pretty clear since before this season started that I thought we needed two new first choice centre backs. At present Toby is our best one (and our best passer of the ball). I'd been advocating playing him and Rodon as a natural right/left combination for a little while now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sorry your relating Lampard half a season Poch whole time here then... ok then!!!
Hey I didnt want Poch gone
The board acted quickly to fix a negative position (exactly as Chelsea did) and we got a better league position (exactly what Chelsea have so far)

I'm relating that last transfer window (the first time that both Poch and Lampard were able to have a reasonable level of net spend... well reasonable in Poch's case, huge net spend in Lampard's case). I could be wrong but I don't think Lampard's new players all came in injured?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ah I see.... So they wouldn't actually have to add £200m of debt to buy him.... Just the transfer fee. Let's say that transfer fee is £130m. That would elevate Man Utd's debt level to 1.35 to 1... a huge magnitude lower than ours.

Also if you're saying it is a bad move for Man Utd to add that debt to buy Harry Kane (which I think you are saying?) then by that same metric surely it would also be bad business sense for us to keep him? You can't have both sides of the coin mate. You need to pick a side of the argument and stick to it.

He has zero value to us.
We own him and he cost us salary per year at £11m ish
So United outlay would be £150m in year one for his transfer abs wages assuming what doubles his salary or £10m to us

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm relating that last transfer window (the first time that both Poch and Lampard were able to have a reasonable level of net spend... well reasonable in Poch's case, huge net spend in Lampard's case). I could be wrong but I don't think Lampard's new players all came in injured?

Ziyexh did I think
I think Pulisic did too
But that doesn’t matter
What cost Lampard was he wasn’t very good

 

[Mikey10]

It won't take anything like £175m IMO.

I’d be surprised if Levy lets him go for anything less - especially to a domestic rival. If he does, there’s another thing the fans will hold against him and ENIC.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I've been pretty clear since before this season started that I thought we needed two new first choice centre backs. At present Toby is our best one (and our best passer of the ball). I'd been advocating playing him and Rodon as a natural right/left combination for a little while now.

Rodon IMO looks better than Toby

 

[Pirate55]

A team that contains of Lloris Kane, Son, Ndombele, Holbjerg, Lo Celso Bale Moura Reguillon with Lamela, Vinicius in reserve should be doing better. I think Aurier is pretty decent too. Dele can also be pretty good too. Mourinho hasn't been good enough by any stretch of the imagination this season. I am surprised you are giving him such an easy ride given some of your posts about the performance of the previous manager.

I am certainly not giving Mourinho an "easy ride". The players you refer to have been assembled over several years by a recruitment process that has failed us dismally. Where I hold Poch culpable is that he was part of that process for over five years. Mourinho has had less than a full season so far.

I don't agree with much of Mourinho's team selections, tactics and general management of our club, but he largely can't be held responsible for the players he had no input in buying. What was evident to me on Sunday was that Man U players ( as with other teams this season such as West Ham and Leicester) look so much taller, stronger and more physical than our team. It was like pygmies against giants . Also, even though they had a game away in Europe on Thursday, they looked fitter and stronger than many of our players who were palpably tiring in the second half.

Why isn't Hichens doing his job? He needs to go and a decent DoF needs to be recruited asap.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He has zero value to us.
We own him and he cost us salary per year at £11m ish
So United outlay would be £150m in year one for his transfer abs wages assuming what doubles his salary or £10m to us

It wouldn't be £150m in year one at all. Large transfers do not work anything like that. Any club that purchases Harry Kane is likely to be paying the fee off over 3 or 4 years.

If Man Utd purchase him for (lets say to make the maths easy) £150m on a 5 year deal. Kane will show on their books as a £150m asset depreciated over 5 years. Man Utd would likely pay the fee in 3 equal installments....
In year one Man Utd will have paid £50m of fees to Spurs and have a £150m asset on their books (but show a further £100m of short term debt for his remaining instalments).
In year two Man Utd will have paid £100m of fees to Spurs and have a £120m asset on their books (and now show £50m of short term debt for his remaining instalment).
In year three Man Utd will have paid £150 of fees to Spurs and have a £90m asset on their books (no longer having any short term debt left on the books for Harry Kane.

That actually shows that Man Utd don't actually have to borrow a large amount up front to purchase Kane.... they can just provision for the payments in their accounts and borrow whatever they need for each instalment

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It wouldn't be £150m in year one at all. Large transfers do not work anything like that. Any club that purchases Harry Kane is likely to be paying the fee off over 3 or 4 years.

If Man Utd purchase him for (lets say to make the maths easy) £150m on a 5 year deal. Kane will show on their books as a £150m asset depreciated over 5 years. Man Utd would likely pay the fee in 3 equal installments....
In year one Man Utd will have paid £50m of fees to Spurs and have a £150m asset on their books (but show a further £100m of short term debt for his remaining instalments).
In year two Man Utd will have paid £100m of fees to Spurs and have a £120m asset on their books (and now show £50m of short term debt for his remaining instalment).
In year three Man Utd will have paid £150 of fees to Spurs and have a £90m asset on their books (no longer having any short term debt left on the books for Harry Kane.

That actually shows that Man Utd don't actually have to borrow a large amount up front to purchase Kane.... they can just provision for the payments in their accounts and borrow whatever they need for each instalment

That’s if we would sell on the never never... don’t see it happening myself
Especially not if we were selling to clear debt
Wouldn’t make sense

 

[Finney Is Back]

I’d be surprised if Levy lets him go for anything less - especially to a domestic rival. If he does, there’s another thing the fans will hold against him and ENIC.

I expect he'll make it look like Kane is refusing to play etc when in actual fact he is being told to stay away (like with Bale) to try to turn the fans against the player so that he isn't judged as badly on the sale.

Just as long as the words 'special relationship' don't get mentioned!