Tottenham - Southampton Official No match thread ?

[Jordinho]

Southampton fans are weird.

They apparently dominated possession, despite the stats showing the opposite.

If they only put away half their shots on goals they would have had 6 or 7. Four shots on target, divided by two. Yeah, I can see that. Even if you add in the one that hit the bar it's not even close.

Best song of the day: 'Clap if you hate Tottenham' *clap clap clap*

We were poor and they were back to being a fluent attacking side. Thought they were mostly hitting long balls to Mane.

Pelle back to his excellent self. First goal he got lucky and there was a push on Davies as well. Apart from the second goal I don't think he did much at all.

Our support is alright, but lacks a bit of identity.

 

[Pirate55]

How on earth you can watch us and make this statement beggars belief. I think you should go back and see how many times Bentaleb is in deep defensive positions covering/seeing potential problems/eliminating them. Mason is absolutely knackered IMO. I wouldn't disagree that an upgrade in that department would be great if (say) Schneiderlein was a potential option, as it would give us a little more quality strength in depth in this area (Mason is a current walk-in due to lack of competition).

General comments here for the board...I think people also need to remember these two are TWENTY and TWENTY-THREE respectively. They will get better as they get older. I am still prepared to say that when Bentaleb is Scheniederlin's age, he will have gone significantly further in his career. As ever in these discussions, the escapees are the likes of Chadli, who is the most frustrating player I have seen in recent years. Aside from his clear lack of dedicated covering when we're defending, the lad has SO much talent and ability which simply does not flicker into life nearly enough. Add to that the fact that we again played with a different defensive line-up, neither of our first-choice FBs available plus our back up LB stretchered off, and I think it is clear to see why we have issues back there currently. I must also say I thought Pelle pushed Davies over a bit.

I am making every allowance for their ages. However, just because they are young doesn't negate the reason not to critisise and make constructive suggestions. If you go back and watch the game closely, you will see that on so many occasions there is a yawning gap in front of the back four. We are so open to the pull back to the edge of the area where there is simply no-one covering.

Yesterday amply demonstrated my point that they don't complement each other well. Neither provided adequate defensive cover and neither offered anything going forward to help our attack. Without Mason against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Bentaleb was a force going forward. Yesterday, I have hardly any recollection of him going into Southamptons half never mind making any sort of positive contribution there. Mason seems to curtail Bentelab's natural attacking instincts. That is why I would prefer him to be partnered by a more naturally defensive minded DM.

 

[Pirate55]

The whole point of the system is that they are both alrounders - capable defensively/pressers but good passers/quick transitioners too. A specialist DM just brings back all the turgid problems. All the other CMs we have signed (Stambouli) or have been linked with (Schneiderlin) under Poch are alrounders too

Disagree entirely. A specialist DM (who can still pass, like Song for example) would give Bentelab even more opportunity to get forward. That will increase our attacking potency not diminish it.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

The whole point of the system is that they are both alrounders - capable defensively/pressers but good passers/quick transitioners too. A specialist DM just brings back all the turgid problems. All the other CMs we have signed (Stambouli) or have been linked with (Schneiderlin) under Poch are alrounders too

Emmmmm is that not what Sherwood said he wanted, and you hammered him for it?

 

[parklane1]

I agree. Mason and Bentaleb just don't complement each other. I would like a designated DM who has as his first priority cover of the back four. This would release Bentaleb to play slightly further forward and join in more attacking moves like he did against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. That is his best position imo. I would like someone like Song from Wet Spam. His experience would be really beneficial to our young team. He has been well schooled at the other place. We need a Davids, terrier type desperately to solidify our vacant area immediately in front of the back four. Davies really exploited that space today and could have had a hat trick.

Been saying he same thing for ages, our CM is weak and unless Poch makes changes there we will be talking about this next season as well.

 

[Roland Beurre]

We are so open to the pull back to the edge of the area where there is simply no-one covering.

At least one of those was down to Lamela electing not to track Davis, despite turning his head and apparently noticing the run.

I thought Bentaleb made at least two very good defensive interventions in the second half (don't make me go and watch the game again to determine when they occurred; it wasn't that good a game!).

I am not sure it is the DMs' job, exclusively to cut these out.

Yesterday amply demonstrated my point that they don't complement each other well. Neither provided adequate defensive cover and neither offered anything going forward to help our attack. Without Mason against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Bentaleb was a force going forward. Yesterday, I have hardly any recollection of him going into Southampton's half never mind making any sort of positive contribution there. Mason seems to curtail Bentelab's natural attacking instincts. That is why I would prefer him to be partnered by a more naturally defensive minded DM.

Mason seems to get forward more frequently than Bentaleb. I would love to know whether that volley that hit Fonte in the face was on target.

I think Mason is far more likely to provide the extra man in the box (the Martin Peters role) than Bentaleb, whereas the latter is probably more likely to provide an incisive pass in the final third.

At the risk of sounding like Les Ferdinand, I prefer a system where the players have the wit to know when to cover for the other's attacking forays, and where both have the ability to get forward to good effect.

 

[scaramanga]

Southampton fans are weird.

They apparently dominated possession, despite the stats showing the opposite.

If they only put away half their shots on goals they would have had 6 or 7. Four shots on target, divided by two. Yeah, I can see that. Even if you add in the one that hit the bar it's not even close.

Best song of the day: 'Clap if you hate Tottenham' *clap clap clap*

We were poor and they were back to being a fluent attacking side. Thought they were mostly hitting long balls to Mane.

Pelle back to his excellent self. First goal he got lucky and there was a push on Davies as well. Apart from the second goal I don't think he did much at all.

Our support is alright, but lacks a bit of identity.

They're all inbred.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't give a crud about how Southampton played their football. The matter of the fact is that they managed to create 6 or 7 clear cut opportunities against us. Whether they did that through long balls or not is relevant, we need to cope better with it. And I think they created chances in various ways. On the counter, on set pieces, on crosses, through combination play centrally and we couldn't defend against any of these things. Our defending is not good enough.

And when we play against settled defences, we have nothing to offer. What are we trying to do? I don't see anything that seems to be planned or practiced. It's been that way all season. One players receives the ball, looks around, doesn't see any good alternatives, passes to another player, the same happens and in the ball ends up at Hugo's feet. It seems like it is always up to the individual player to try to get something going. What do we practice in training? Is it all about running around, being aggressive and working hard?

I agree that Southampton had some good chances, not sure on created 6-7 clear cut opportunities, but they had their chances. But remember that we too had our chances, like Mason's well struck shot that was blocked rather coincidentally and Eriksen and another player were in good positions in the box to let fly, but chose to take extra touches. I also think that a couple of the chances Southampton had were a bit overstated by commentators and fans. Overall in terms of chances they edged it I think, but not by much.

How on earth you can watch us and make this statement beggars belief. I think you should go back and see how many times Bentaleb is in deep defensive positions covering/seeing potential problems/eliminating them. Mason is absolutely knackered IMO. I wouldn't disagree that an upgrade in that department would be great if (say) Schneiderlein was a potential option, as it would give us a little more quality strength in depth in this area (Mason is a current walk-in due to lack of competition).

General comments here for the board...I think people also need to remember these two are TWENTY and TWENTY-THREE respectively. They will get better as they get older. I am still prepared to say that when Bentaleb is Scheniederlin's age, he will have gone significantly further in his career. As ever in these discussions, the escapees are the likes of Chadli, who is the most frustrating player I have seen in recent years. Aside from his clear lack of dedicated covering when we're defending, the lad has SO much talent and ability which simply does not flicker into life nearly enough. Add to that the fact that we again played with a different defensive line-up, neither of our first-choice FBs available plus our back up LB stretchered off, and I think it is clear to see why we have issues back there currently. I must also say I thought Pelle pushed Davies over a bit.

Agreed steff!

Mason doesn't seem to have the energy levels he had earlier in the season. Perhaps not a surprise for a young player we've relied fairly heavily on in his first season in the PL.

I am making every allowance for their ages. However, just because they are young doesn't negate the reason not to critisise and make constructive suggestions. If you go back and watch the game closely, you will see that on so many occasions there is a yawning gap in front of the back four. We are so open to the pull back to the edge of the area where there is simply no-one covering.

Yesterday amply demonstrated my point that they don't complement each other well. Neither provided adequate defensive cover and neither offered anything going forward to help our attack. Without Mason against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Bentaleb was a force going forward. Yesterday, I have hardly any recollection of him going into Southamptons half never mind making any sort of positive contribution there. Mason seems to curtail Bentelab's natural attacking instincts. That is why I would prefer him to be partnered by a more naturally defensive minded DM.

It seems to me that Bentaleb is being developed in that more holding role, I think that's perfectly fine. He's made massive strides this season and is much better defensively than he was last year.

He's good going forward, but I'm not sure he's good enough to become a world class creator or goalscorer in that more attacking role. In the holding role he seems to me to have more potential. Perfectly happy to see him continue playing there.

 

[King of Norway]

I agree that Southampton had some good chances, not sure on created 6-7 clear cut opportunities, but they had their chances. But remember that we too had our chances, like Mason's well struck shot that was blocked rather coincidentally and Eriksen and another player were in good positions in the box to let fly, but chose to take extra touches. I also think that a couple of the chances Southampton had were a bit overstated by commentators and fans. Overall in terms of chances they edged it I think, but not by much.

1. Schneiderlein volley from rehearsed corner kick.
2. Low ball into the box from the left, Steven Davis mibricks shot unmarked in a great position
3. Pelle 1-0
4. Davis shoots wide/over from a great position after move involving Mane and Pelle
5. Davis scuffs his shot wide after walking his way into a great shooting position centrally 18 yards out.
6. Pelle 2-0
7. Header just over the bar from corner or free kick in the dying minutes.

That was from the top of my head. They also had an umarked header on the far post that Fazio headed clear.

We had our two goals, and that shot from Mason if you are being kind. That was it. The Eriksen-incident you mentioned I can't recall to be honest, but I doubt it was a clear cut chance. If it was I would have remembered it.

 

[Gutter Boy]

But Mason isn't particular good defensively and his passing isn't the best. He's a squad player IMO.

I think people just remember Clemence, Marney, O'Hara and Livermore and lazily write-off Mason as one of them.

To me he's put in some of the best CM performances we've seen since Modric (albeit there's still inconsistency to iron out), and think he's just as good a player as the overhyped Schneiderlin or Wiltshire.

 

[ShelfLife]

I think people just remember Clemence, Marney, O'Hara and Livermore and lazily write-off Mason as one of them.

To me he's put in some of the best CM performances we've seen since Modric (albeit there's still inconsistency to iron out), and think he's just as good a player as the overhyped Schneiderlin or Wiltshire.

Agree with this. Mason, on balance, has been very good this season. It ought to be remembered that this is his maiden season in the first team, playing in what I expect is among the youngest sides to have played in the pl era. All signs point to both him, and a number of his teammates being stronger and more consistent next season. It's pretty disheartening see some writing him off as subtandard on the back off a few leggy performances.

 

[parklane1]

I think people just remember Clemence, Marney, O'Hara and Livermore and lazily write-off Mason as one of them.

To me he's put in some of the best CM performances we've seen since Modric (albeit there's still inconsistency to iron out), and think he's just as good a player as the overhyped Schneiderlin or Wiltshire.

I know you support the guy mate and Stop! Hammer time, but I could not disagree more with any post I have seen on here for a long time.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Consistency. Mason has been awesome in some games. Saved the game against Forest. Was instrumental in some performances after that. Seriously promising. But its hard to sustain that level. Initially younger players (and he's not that young and is actually pretty experienced now) play in the first team with adrenalin. But to put in top performances at the highest level each week is tough. Especially when your body tires.

Consistency, or lack of, is a theme for us. I think we need to keep quite a few players - like Paulinho, Lamela, Dembele maybe even Townsend. Let the management have a settled group that they know. That they can set targets for and develop. And the players can also start pre season with some consistency too. Knowing how they will need to train and being familiar with the club.

 

[thfcsteff]

I am making every allowance for their ages. However, just because they are young doesn't negate the reason not to critisise and make constructive suggestions. If you go back and watch the game closely, you will see that on so many occasions there is a yawning gap in front of the back four. We are so open to the pull back to the edge of the area where there is simply no-one covering.

Yesterday amply demonstrated my point that they don't complement each other well. Neither provided adequate defensive cover and neither offered anything going forward to help our attack. Without Mason against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Bentaleb was a force going forward. Yesterday, I have hardly any recollection of him going into Southamptons half never mind making any sort of positive contribution there. Mason seems to curtail Bentelab's natural attacking instincts. That is why I would prefer him to be partnered by a more naturally defensive minded DM.

OK.
It is plainly obvious we will never agree on the general points you are trying to make. So let's just move on eh? I will say, in closing, that it is worth considering that an away fixture at Newcash offer a different prospect than one at Southampton.

 

[Kandi1977]

I think people just remember Clemence, Marney, O'Hara and Livermore and lazily write-off Mason as one of them.

To me he's put in some of the best CM performances we've seen since Modric (albeit there's still inconsistency to iron out), and think he's just as good a player as the overhyped Schneiderlin or Wiltshire.

Yes, he's on par with wheelchair. I.e not very good.

 

[braineclipse]

1. Schneiderlein volley from rehearsed corner kick.
2. Low ball into the box from the left, Steven Davis mibricks shot unmarked in a great position
3. Pelle 1-0
4. Davis shoots wide/over from a great position after move involving Mane and Pelle
5. Davis scuffs his shot wide after walking his way into a great shooting position centrally 18 yards out.
6. Pelle 2-0
7. Header just over the bar from corner or free kick in the dying minutes.

That was from the top of my head. They also had an umarked header on the far post that Fazio headed clear.

We had our two goals, and that shot from Mason if you are being kind. That was it. The Eriksen-incident you mentioned I can't recall to be honest, but I doubt it was a clear cut chance. If it was I would have remembered it.

I could have been more clear. I remain unconvinced about them creating 6-7 clear cut opportunities. I wouldn't count the two corner chances, although good opportunities, as clear cut chances. I wouldn't count their opener as created by Southampton, it was gifted to them by us.

Had Eriksen swung a boot at the ball in the situation I'm talking about it would easily have had as much chance of going in as several of the chances you list.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Am i right in that Kane, Eriksen and Chadli have been involved in ALL the away goals we have scored this season? Any statto out there that can check this?
If true, very interesting...

 

[King of Norway]

Am i right in that Kane, Eriksen and Chadli have been involved in ALL the away goals we have scored this season? Any statto out there that can check this?
If true, very interesting...

Kane, Eriksen or Chadli have either scored or assisted all our away league goals this season, except Lamela's goal last Saturday, unless you give Kane the assist for getting a slight touch on Dier's cross.