***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Wolves OMT***

[Bedfordspurs]

I dreaded reading this after yesterday but surprisingly most posts are positive and level headed. With the team we played it was going to be tough, there were too many of the old guard on the pitch at the end and it seemed they lost confidence in the new way and reverted to the old ways. This just confirmed what we all know and that we need time, new faces and a bit of luck.

Too many old guard
And not enough ballers

Just seen the MOTD highlights and watching Hojberg stop to put his hands behind his back whilst his man scores was typical of how he plays

He has a role Imo but that midfield today was poorly set up.

 

[Junior19]

This was always going to be a difficult one. The main point about Ange-ball is to be brave enough, and Ange-brave is a huge step up from Poch-brave, in terms of compressing the playingfield and force the play on the oppositions half.

Yesterday our right side pushed higher while the left dragged behind, most often Davies. There's a discussion to be had about whose "fault" that is that the line becomes disjointed, but Anges instructions were obviously clear, "Push up, get up!"

We got away with it a on a couple of occations in the game, but in the end the punishment had to come.
However, this was not our only problem. If you compare the pace on the ball, the accuracy of the passes, and the speed of movement, yesterdays game was like wading through mud compared to our previous games. And that is of course to be expected, once you take out players like Romero, Udogie, and most importantly Maddison and replace them with "not like-for-like". Also, games are not played in a vacuum, and Wolves countered our style very well.
If we had our first 11, I'm certain that we would have more than enough quality to finish them off anyway. In a years time, I think our rotated 11 also will, if all goes well. But our current emergency rotation did not, and it showed rather well.

To anyone who think we lost yesterdays game due to a single player, be it Davies, Dier or [insert name of your favourite culprit here], I'd like to quote the former norwegian minister of local goverment and regional development: "Du veit ikkje kva du snakkar om!" (translates roughly to "stop talking through your arsehole")

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This was always going to be a difficult one. The main point about Ange-ball is to be brave enough, and Ange-brave is a huge step up from Poch-brave, in terms of compressing the playingfield and force the play on the oppositions half.

Yesterday our right side pushed higher while the left dragged behind, most often Davies. There's a discussion to be had about whose "fault" that is that the line becomes disjointed, but Anges instructions were obviously clear, "Push up, get up!"

We got away with it a on a couple of occations in the game, but in the end the punishment had to come.
However, this was not our only problem. If you compare the pace on the ball, the accuracy of the passes, and the speed of movement, yesterdays game was like wading through mud compared to our previous games. And that is of course to be expected, once you take out players like Romero, Udogie, and most importantly Maddison and replace them with "not like-for-like". Also, games are not played in a vacuum, and Wolves countered our style very well.
If we had our first 11, I'm certain that we would have more than enough quality to finish them off anyway. In a years time, I think our rotated 11 also will, if all goes well. But our current emergency rotation did not, and it showed rather well.

To anyone who think we lost yesterdays game due to a single player, be it Davies, Dier or [insert name of your favourite culprit here], I'd like to quote the former norwegian minister of local goverment and regional development: "Du veit ikkje kva du snakkar om!" (translates roughly to "stop talking through your arsehole")

Was listening to a reaction pod whilst walking the dog and it dawned on me we had one new signing on the pitch yesterday and he scored

The rest were old guard and in some cases very old guard

But I still think Ange got his selection wrong and didn’t give us that attacking outlet in midfield that was missed

 

[Junior19]

That is a valid point, and one I’m certain Ange is concidering right now as well.

The composition was not good enough. If it had been we would have won. The question only he and time can answer is wether this was the best choice of a bad selection of choices, or if he got it wrong.

Untill I see evidence of the latter, or he acknowledges it, I’m going with the first.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Was listening to a reaction pod whilst walking the dog and it dawned on me we had one new signing on the pitch yesterday and he scored

The rest were old guard and in some cases very old guard

But I still think Ange got his selection wrong and didn’t give us that attacking outlet in midfield that was missed

What were the options in midfield though? Bentancur looked poor when he came on as he has done in all his cameos this season. That’s probably down to a lack of match-fitness. That leaves GLC. Personally I’d have played him but it’s a long time since he’s had a good spell for us.

I don’t really blame Ange but I think how he wants to play the game was part of the reason we lost. And that’s fine. There is no perfect way to play football and his approach comes with risks. You often hear “spurs wouldn’t have won that game last year”. Well, to be honest, under Mourinho or Conte, we wouldn’t have lost that game IMO.

Think @Junior19 makes a good point as well. Wolves were very good yesterday and good value for their win. I think the amount of diagonal balls dropped over our high line is something we will need to get used to.

 

[Robspur12]

The disappointment from yesterday is still raw hence I have not posted on the match thread. But actually that's a good thing because for the past 3 years I have struggled to care. That I care again is down to our brilliant manager

Suffice I am totally behind Ange and the team. COYS!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The disappointment from yesterday is still raw hence I have not posted on the match thread. But actually that's a good thing because for the past 3 years I have struggled to care. That I care again is down to our brilliant manager

Suffice I am totally behind Ange and the team. COYS!

That’s the big change now
We care
Because we have a manager and players that care
It looks like they share our pain

 

[Legohamster]

I'm just going to be perfectly honest now and say that those who are having a whinge really are stupid for letting yourself think we were going to challenge for the title this season. It's still early days yet you have let the first 10 games convince you we were going to do something special, you feeling like that is on you and no one else. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knew this wasn't going to last but here comes the toxicity that we saw last season creeping in again.

I don't think many are being unreasonable, I think the only criticising I've seen is around Dier playing above a youngster and moving Sarr

Both valid points.

Think my frustration is more aimed at the players than anything Ange has done.

 

[Legohamster]

What did Davies do wrong today?

Thought he and Dier were decent albeit Dier was poor for the second. The biggest problem was in midfield for me and that’s not all on Hojbjerg albeit he wasn’t great. We had 2 shots on target and one of them was in the third minute. We never had any control of the game at all either in terms of possession or making life difficult for them. The lack of creativity comes down to Maddison for me. You could question Ange’s selection of PEH over Bentancur or GLC but Bentancur doesn’t look match fit to me. Bissouma was also pretty poor.

Yeah Dier could have done better. Ange could have done better. PEH could have done better. Bissouma could have done better.

But what we’re seeing is a pretty light squad being stretched to its limits by circumstance.

Davies and Dier are not brave enough for this system, they just drop deep as a go to as the pressure mounts.

Davies was playing everyone on for first goal and Dier was all over the place for most of the game.

Neither stepped out with the ball either

Listening to Ange after the game about aggression, I think dropping too far is part of that.

If Ange doesn't trust the youngsters, we need a new face in Jan.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Davies and Dier are not brave enough for this system, they just drop deep as a go to as the pressure mounts.

Davies was playing everyone on for first goal and Dier was all over the place for most of the game.

Neither stepped out with the ball either

Listening to Ange after the game about aggression, I think dropping too far is part of that.

If Ange doesn't trust the youngsters, we need a new face in Jan.

Where were they meant to step out into?
The midfield was too deep
The whole set up starts with them moving progressive forward

We did that much lore when lo celso and Gil came on and almost scored

Bentacur did some great footy to win it back too

 

[Legohamster]

Where were they meant to step out into?
The midfield was too deep
The whole set up starts with them moving progressive forward

We did that much lore when lo celso and Gil came on and almost scored

Bentacur did some great footy to win it back too

If the CBs don't drop so much the CM doesn't follow.

In the first half we started like this, then just stopped as the pressure built

Son being absent didn't help either

 

[markysimmo]

I know so many Celtic fans and they have all said, normally it takes at least 6 months for Ange's methods to totally come through
I know we have better players than Celtic but we've been lucky for how quick we've seen real glimpses
Anybody getting on his back is a drongo

 

[glasgowspur]

What were the options in midfield though? Bentancur looked poor when he came on as he has done in all his cameos this season. That’s probably down to a lack of match-fitness. That leaves GLC. Personally I’d have played him but it’s a long time since he’s had a good spell for us.

I don’t really blame Ange but I think how he wants to play the game was part of the reason we lost. And that’s fine. There is no perfect way to play football and his approach comes with risks. You often hear “spurs wouldn’t have won that game last year”. Well, to be honest, under Mourinho or Conte, we wouldn’t have lost that game IMO.

Think @Junior19 makes a good point as well. Wolves were very good yesterday and good value for their win. I think the amount of diagonal balls dropped over our high line is something we will need to get used to.

The diagonal balls is something a Celtic supporting mate of mine goes on about as Ange's one weak spot in his system. Yesterday was the first time I actually thought it was an issue, we can negate it with the correct line up, we just didn't have it yesterday.

 

[parklane1]

I know its been said ( probably by me) but we are a work in progress and it WILL take time. Lets be honest the team overall have been a mess over the last couple of years with a lot of players who are past their best. It will take Ange a while to stop the rot which has been happening over the last couple of seasons and we have seen signs that he will get it done.

But it/we/he were never going to turn a team that has really been on a downward slope for a while into a CONSISTANT performing team and it will be a long job, we have seen some REAL improvements so far ( better then most of us would have hoped for) but we will have days when it falls down.

Listening to some fans before the season started bemoaning us and expecting us to be a bottom half team ( and there were some suggesting this) was always a over the top opinion ( imo) and also i have heard/seen some fans ( after our first few games) saying a top four place is on the cards. The truth is we have a manager who inspires me and gives me hope that i will get my SPURS back but it will not happen overnight.

What i do know is that i am enjoying the ride and i have once again have smile on my face at games and long may it continue.

 

[Junior19]

Davies and Dier are not brave enough for this system, they just drop deep as a go to as the pressure mounts.

Davies was playing everyone on for first goal and Dier was all over the place for most of the game.

Neither stepped out with the ball either

Listening to Ange after the game about aggression, I think dropping too far is part of that.

If Ange doesn't trust the youngsters, we need a new face in Jan.

That we need new faces in january is a foregone conclusion. We knew that from way before this game.

Ange has said that as long as the players are following his instructions, and play in the manner he wants them to, any blame, fault or brick stops with him.
If that is true when the first 11 starts, it must also be true when players who _know very well_ that they are not as well suited to that style of play give it their best, and try to play in his style.

Courage and bravery takes many a form.

If I had seen Davies and Dier, or any other player for that matter, directly counter a directive from Ange yesterday, ie. activly pulling the line deeper, or starting to hoof balls over the top, I'd say that would warrant a gonad*ing. They did not. We clearly stuck to the same tactic, the same gameplan, and the same style of play. But we performed sub-par, and were beaten by a team who did well.

There is also a matter of long term effects. Phillips is a future prospect, same with Dorrington and any other academy person.
Our next games are Aston Villa, Emirates Marketing Project, West Ham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Nottingham Forest, Everton, Brigthon and Bournemouth, to bring us up to the transfer window.
We know Van der Ven is out at least that long, and Romero is suspended untill after Emirates Marketing Project.
Udogie can return for Villa.
So any center pairing for Wolves, was always to be likely for Villa and City as well. Throw a 18-year old in there, and risk a destroyed 18-year old talent, as well as lost games.
To come in for one game against City, with no expectations? Sure.
To be on a three-game losing streak, culminating with a heavy loss against City? Not exactly healthy for development. Dier and Davies are grown men, they can deal with it.
It might have been influencing the decision.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What were the options in midfield though? Bentancur looked poor when he came on as he has done in all his cameos this season. That’s probably down to a lack of match-fitness. That leaves GLC. Personally I’d have played him but it’s a long time since he’s had a good spell for us.

I don’t really blame Ange but I think how he wants to play the game was part of the reason we lost. And that’s fine. There is no perfect way to play football and his approach comes with risks. You often hear “spurs wouldn’t have won that game last year”. Well, to be honest, under Mourinho or Conte, we wouldn’t have lost that game IMO.

Think @Junior19 makes a good point as well. Wolves were very good yesterday and good value for their win. I think the amount of diagonal balls dropped over our high line is something we will need to get used to.

Bentacur was fine
Won the ball higher up which was something we were missing form the other players

 

[monkeybarry]

Was listening to a reaction pod whilst walking the dog and it dawned on me we had one new signing on the pitch yesterday and he scored

The rest were old guard and in some cases very old guard

But I still think Ange got his selection wrong and didn’t give us that attacking outlet in midfield that was missed

That's not true. Vicario.
And you can't really include Sarr or Porro in that analogy. It's harsh to include Biss, Kulu and Son.

Football is fine margins. Even having three players out of position and not suited to the style of football makes it very difficult in the PL. The tactical and technical quality is so high now that even one round peg in a square leaves significant gaps.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's not true. Vicario.
And you can't really include Sarr or Porro in that analogy. It's harsh to include Biss, Kulu and Son.

Football is fine margins. Even having three players out of position and not suited to the style of football makes it very difficult in the PL. The tactical and technical quality is so high now that even one round peg in a square leaves significant gaps.

I meant on the pitch so didn’t think about keeper
The rest played under previous coaches or were left to stagnate

 

[alekaras]

Really bummed after the weekend results. We were 5 mins away from going into the international break in first place.

 

[90291Spur]

Flipped as in blaming players and the style of football

What a shame for them, in my humble. While losing two on the spin - and in the manner we did - is upsetting, we're 12 games in and two points off the top at the very start of a radical new regime. It's much more fun to ride the ups and downs and remain optimistic.