indospurs
Young-Pyo Lee
oppo's rightback
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***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Arsenal OMT***
- Thread starter Lemonade Money
- Start date
Mulletperm
Mauricio Taricco
A question about the handball/penalty (and handball in general).
This is the handball rule from the FA website, which is interesting. I'd suggest that the position of Romero's hand/arm was the consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement. It certainly wasn't an intentional movement to make the body bigger. So did the ref make a mistake, or was it correct.
When I first saw it I agreed definitely a penalty. It now reading the rules im not sure.
'touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised'
This is the handball rule from the FA website, which is interesting. I'd suggest that the position of Romero's hand/arm was the consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement. It certainly wasn't an intentional movement to make the body bigger. So did the ref make a mistake, or was it correct.
When I first saw it I agreed definitely a penalty. It now reading the rules im not sure.
'touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised'
The issue is consistency and clarity of what the fudging rule is
- At that range, and of a deflection (Maddison's boot), there was zero chance Romero knew where the ball was going or had any idea it was going to hit his hand
- It was however goal bound when it hit his hand
So make the rules clear, is it stopping a goal opportunity, is it intent (never a good call), is it range? consistent calls even if no one likes them is better that "who the fudge knows this week" which is what it seems to be right now
glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
If that Chelsea tackle today was a red card, flagged up by very BTW, then it's absolutely criminal that he got away with that.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
MOTD ( even Wright) say it was a red and he was a very lucky boy.
Wright is usually fair tbh.
yiddo37
Niko Kranjcar
I watched that a few times and still don't think it was a red (Gusto challenge).
Shay Given said the VAR got it right changing it from yellow to red. I get more confused by the week.
yiddo37
Niko Kranjcar
Such a shame we didn't score there, was quality.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
For me, the problem with all these contentious hand balls is that a penalty is too severe a punishment. It results in a goal the vast majority of the times. Maybe should be replaced by a free kick on the edge of the D. For it to be an actual penalty kick, there must be a degree of intention ( i.e. Like it was when all knew what a handball was!)
Just a suggestion
Just a suggestion
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
I didn't think Gusto's was a red.
tommysvr
Justin Edinburgh
I don't have a problem with the penalty. For me, the ball hit Romero's arm and we got an advantage from it. What I don't get is VAR not instructing the ref to look at the potential foul on Maddison right before it -- VAR clearly did, they looked at that about 5 times but obviously deemed it not a foul. So then why did they need the ref to deem it a handball? Surely VAR calls them both, or lets the ref decide both? It's just so hard to know how it all works.
Nketiah's tackle was an absolute disgrace though. How has VAR not flagged that one?
Nketiah's tackle was an absolute disgrace though. How has VAR not flagged that one?
metalgear
Nayim
Ref could see the whole sliding tackle it was reckless
The ref should have been sent off for a poor game overall or should have his eyesight tested
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metalgear
Nayim
He got the ball down the wing and had arsenal defenders tracking at the least.
Agree he is someone to upgrade on but who else on the left? Perisic is injured... Davies?
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metalgear
Nayim
Ange said that the rules and application are ambiguous and hope it evens out...might have that in mind in the interview
The nketiah tackle on vicario not picked up by var is a bigger issue to me.
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metalgear
Nayim
The stupid wording is in "unnaturally bigger". Players get into awkward and unnatural positions all the time. So unnatural/awkward positions need to be illustrated to avoid uncertainty
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tommysvr
Justin Edinburgh
I don't understand why handball is complicated so much in comparison with other fouls. There's a lot of talk about 'deliberate' and 'unnatural position', but no other foul is held to that level of judgment so I don't know why handball should be. It's simple for me: if it hits a player's arm and that team gains an advantage from that, then it's a foul. The only exception to that is when arms are fully by one's side.
Lemonade Money
Steffen Freund
Not for me, that's the Sissoko pen from the final, and you'll have players trying to hit a players arm again. It's got to be deliberate to be cheating and penalised. Hand moving to ball or unnatural arm (blocking) position. I think Romero's arm was in an unnatural position.
Agree it needs better definition though, it's a different and inconsistent interpretation every week.
tommysvr
Justin Edinburgh
I can understand that point of view. I also get the idea of 'you need your arms to jump' etc, but it's too hard to define deliberate and unnatural position. It depends on how the ref interprets it at that moment.
A good example of that was Saudi Sportswashing Machine's first goal against Sheffield United. Neither deliberate, nor in an unnatural position, but quite obviously it gave Saudi Sportswashing Machine a massive advantage.
Anyway...no complaints on the pen for me, lots on Nketiah not being sent off.
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Kandi1977
Terry Dyson
We already tried that. It was a disaster!
Mr Gogolak
Radek Cerny
No, it's exactly the same as other fouls. You don't give away a free kick every time a player falls over. The stakes are higher with a handball but it's even more true when the referee has to dish out a yellow or a red card. I think what people have a hard time agreeing with is the fact that it's up to the referee's interpretation. That's the point a lot of people are missing with VAR: it's not meant to replace the referee; it's there to avoid blatant mistakes (sending off the wrong player, giving away a penalty when the foul was outside the box and so on). If the ref had felt Nketiah's tackle on Vicario deserved a red card, VAR wouldn't have said anything either.
Personally, I think VAR don't add anything to the game but it's important to understand that in FIFA's view, the referee's interpretation remains central. Unless the ref himself asks for VAR, they're not supposed to overrule each and every decision he makes.
So, yes, there will be mistake and there will be disagreements and we all know 'bigger' clubs and home teams will benefit from such mistakes more often but it's nothing new. Football fans (myself included) always think they know the game better than the refs but that's simply not true. You have a better view on TV but nothing will ever replace the feeling you get when you're on the pitch. Otherwise, armchair fans' opinions would be more valuable than season tickets holders.