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***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

there is room in the game for wingers as much as there is foe wide forwards

What really helps is players who are quick and can run with the ball

Pace covers for all sorts of issues but between erisken, Lamella, Kane and Chaldi there is no pace at all so when it isn't working (which is frequent) we have no alternative.

It's naive to me not have a mix with this players of a pacy one, a technical own and a direct one

You could almost say
Technical : eriksen/Lamella
Pacey; lennon/Townsend
Direct: Chadli/Kane

Or
Technical: Oscar/hazard
Pacey: William
Direct: schurle
 
scaramanga said:
It's unlikely though. In all likelihood you'd have to get past at least two defenders to get behind their full back - at that point you're not behind their central defenders (when crosses are really dangerous) as they were defending very deep anyway. So your winger has to beat two defenders, put in a good cross (probably under pressure) and then the recipient of your cross has to beat a settled and prepared defence heading away from goal and a keeper who is also settled and prepared for a cross. The chances of this succeeding are just infinitesimally small.


I've already agreed that width is good when passing across/through a team - that's not what I'm arguing against. I just don't agree that sticking on a good old English style winger to lob in crosses is going to change our fortunes.

The problem is, crosses excite the crowd even when we don't get on the end of them. So even though we've massively reduced our chances of scoring, to those who don't know any better it seems like we're creating a lot. Most fans would consider a through ball our forward didn't quite get to and a cross he didn't quite get to as equal but they're far from it.
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Seems we more or less agree then. But two questions for you - a) do you think we should be playing with more width than we currently are (from midfielders or full-backs), and b) what do you think needs to change in order for us to get better at scoring against teams that park the bus?

Indeed, does anyone disagree that we need to play with more width than we generally are at the moment?
 
elltrev said:
Seems we more or less agree then. But two questions for you - a) do you think we should be playing with more width than we currently are (from midfielders or full-backs), and b) what do you think needs to change in order for us to get better at scoring against teams that park the bus?

Indeed, does anyone disagree that we need to play with more width than we generally are at the moment?
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I don't. But I also think it makes a lot of sense for that width to come from the full backs.
 
elltrev said:
Seems we more or less agree then. But two questions for you - a) do you think we should be playing with more width than we currently are (from midfielders or full-backs), and b) what do you think needs to change in order for us to get better at scoring against teams that park the bus?

Indeed, does anyone disagree that we need to play with more width than we generally are at the moment?
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a) Sometimes - depends on each individual circumstance. As has already been mentioned, it really should be coming from the full backs.

b) Faster, one-touch passing, better movement off the ball and better decision making.
 
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markysimmo said:
So many goals scored this weekend in the PL from wingers putting in crosses
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Statistical aberration I expect. Bit like buses.

(Me -I like a good cross -pull back, drifted to the far post, zipped across the box, curled in from deep, worked in around the edge of the area.)
 
markysimmo said:
So many goals scored this weekend in the PL from wingers putting in crosses
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Haven't seen all the matches but it sounds like they were all scored by underdogs.

I suppose you could consider intentionally getting relegated for a few seasons so that other teams stop parking the bus as a valid tactic..... Doesn't get my vote.
 
scaramanga said:
Haven't seen all the matches but it sounds like they were all scored by underdogs.

I suppose you could consider intentionally getting relegated for a few seasons so that other teams stop parking the bus as a valid tactic..... Doesn't get my vote.
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Who are you referring to when you say "underdogs" Scara? West Ham are one of those I assume?
 
scaramanga said:
a) Sometimes - depends on each individual circumstance. As has already been mentioned, it really should be coming from the full backs.

b) Faster, one-touch passing, better movement off the ball and better decision making.
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Trouble is, a) our full-backs aren't currently providing that width (and/or aren't effective at it because they don't have very good attacking attributes), and b) our attacking players don't currently seem to have the ability / quality to play that way. Whilst both of those things are true, I think Poch needs to start Lennon to at least give us that width on one side.
 
I don't think equating width with crosses is a sensible approach.
Wide players do much more than cross the ball.
What about wide players receiving the ball wide and then dribbling into the box, for example, -- not a cross- but still developed from an advanced player on the touchline.

The important question is does width from midfield/forwards improve your chances of scoring. I think it does, personally. But others may disagree.
 
elltrev said:
Trouble is, a) our full-backs aren't currently providing that width (and/or aren't effective at it because they don't have very good attacking attributes), and b) our attacking players don't currently seem to have the ability / quality to play that way. Whilst both of those things are true, I think Poch needs to start Lennon to at least give us that width on one side.
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I'm one of Lennon's biggest fans but it's not his width that makes me want him in the team. For me, his best attributes are his decision making and his one touch passing (far better than people think for some reason) .
 
Jurgen the German said:
They are 3rd and we are 10th. You can argue that we have a better side, but they are playing better than we are at the moment. We are both where we deserve to be in the league.
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Where do you think they'll finish this season?

In fact, what's the highest position you think a team playing BFS football is likely to finish?
 
scaramanga said:
I'm one of Lennon's biggest fans but it's not his width that makes me want him in the team. For me, his best attributes are his decision making and his one touch passing (far better than people think for some reason) .
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I think I must be too. At least I was reading some pages of the Lennon thread from last season and I was amongst those defending him against some pretty harsh criticism.

He's definitely a useful player, although not quite good enough to be an obvious first choice.

I disagree with you a bit, I think getting the width from a player like him can be very useful, at least in some games. At the same time though I think we've both seen enough games where he as a player and we as a team have been ineffectual against teams like Palace despite that width so I agree it's not some end all be all issue.
 
We had Bale on the left and Lennon on the right for years. And he struggled for years break down teams at home. We had an the width in the world.

Pointless cross after pointless cross headed away by a defence waiting for it.

But today it's "we need width", "Aaron Lennon" and I saw some goals from crosses on motd once.

I'm sure Soldado would have headed in a hatrick all assisted by England's up and coming 2006 works cup star. Tony Gale for Spurs manager.
 
Does working the ball wide, and passing/ crossing into the penalty area constitute a cross? If so we were also closest to scoring from crosses - Lamela to Davies to Soldado to blaze over first half. We could have stretched the pitch more, we could have a 'bigger' pitch if we had fullbacks or others receiving the ball in pace out wide in the final third. You don't have to have traditional wingers just be able to stretch teams and use the sides of the pitch to get in behind. The whole traditional wingers or not is a misnomer and not the issue.
 
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