***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Chelski OMT***

[braineclipse]

yeah, it's the making it easy for them that hurts, how many times have we seen the sides right at the bottom go there and nick a point by just doing the basics doggedly

Not that many.

So far this season against bottom half teams Chelsea have played 4 and won 4. Scored 9, conceded 1.

Last season out of 10 games at home to bottom half teams they won 6, drew 3 and lost 1. But that was a significantly weaker Chelsea side not at their current level of form or ability. By comparison Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool won 9 and drew 1 out of 10 games at home to bottom half teams last season (teams that then were performing at a level at least comparable to Chelsea this season).

The fact is the runaway league leaders do not drop points at home very often. If they did they wouldn't be runaway league leaders. It's just that there's a rather large number of "other sides" that play them and just by chance one of them gets away with something once in a while. We on the other hand only play them away once per season (luckily).

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Chelsea might underestimate Sunderland, but Mourinho won't let them underestimate us. They've also got the fans providing a semblance of an atmosphere.

This, historically Chelsea hate us as much as anyone, they'll always be putting 100% focus and effort in unfortunately.

 

[NWND]

Not that many.

So far this season against bottom half teams Chelsea have played 4 and won 4. Scored 9, conceded 1.

Last season out of 10 games at home to bottom half teams they won 6, drew 3 and lost 1. But that was a significantly weaker Chelsea side not at their current level of form or ability. By comparison Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool won 9 and drew 1 out of 10 games at home to bottom half teams last season (teams that then were performing at a level at least comparable to Chelsea this season).

The fact is the runaway league leaders do not drop points at home very often. If they did they wouldn't be runaway league leaders. It's just that there's a rather large number of "other sides" that play them and just by chance one of them gets away with something once in a while. We on the other hand only play them away once per season (luckily).

Yeah, plus we drew with them the season before last at the Bridge. We get the odd draw there and beat them on the odd occasion at home in recent times.

Chelsea have an absolutely outstanding squad. Even teams of the quality of Arsenal and Liverpool rarely get points there.

 

[clevelandspur]

yeah, it's the making it easy for them that hurts, how many times have we seen the sides right at the bottom go there and nick a point by just doing the basics doggedly

We aren't really set up to play that way though. Those teams at the bottom are well drilled and used to backs to the wall defending.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

The change of formation was covered extensively in the pochetino thread, you should check it out, most of the points you've made have been argued back and forth there.

If he plays soldado on Saturday it most certainly won't be because he's somehow learned from a "mistake"! Chelsea away and palace at home are two completely different fixtures!!!

I haven't read the thread but I don't think swapping Soldado for Lamela really makes us any more compact or combative ... it was a needless change imo, either swap Soldado out for an actual centre mid or not at all.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

I haven't read the thread but I don't think swapping Soldado for Lamela really makes us any more compact or combative ... it was a needless change imo, either swap Soldado out for an actual centre mid or not at all.

Exactly this. We all pretty much expected to lose against Chelscum away. So, as most of us thought in the pre Chelscum OMT, the same team as against Everton would be best to allow for some bedding in at last and let some partnerships begin to flourish- Verts/Fazio, Mason/Bentelab, Kane/Solly and importantly a Midfield with settled strikers in front so as to get used to their movement etc .

To those using the "tired" argument, look at Chelsea who have played the same core players in virtually every game. Hasn't done them any harm.

 

[harr1984]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

Exactly this. We all pretty much expected to lose against Chelscum away. So, as most of us thought in the pre Chelscum OMT, the same team as against Everton would be best to allow for some bedding in at last and let some partnerships begin to flourish- Verts/Fazio, Mason/Bentelab, Kane/Solly and importantly a Midfield with settled strikers in front so as to get used to their movement etc .

To those using the "tired" argument, look at Chelsea who have played the same core players in virtually every game. Hasn't done them any harm.

Well it was the same core of players - there was only one change and Lamela has featured in most games...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[braineclipse]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

Exactly this. We all pretty much expected to lose against Chelscum away. So, as most of us thought in the pre Chelscum OMT, the same team as against Everton would be best to allow for some bedding in at last and let some partnerships begin to flourish- Verts/Fazio, Mason/Bentelab, Kane/Solly and importantly a Midfield with settled strikers in front so as to get used to their movement etc .

To those using the "tired" argument, look at Chelsea who have played the same core players in virtually every game. Hasn't done them any harm.

One of the people bringing up the "tired" argument was Pochettino. Since he sees these players every day in training I'm leaning towards listening to what he says.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

One of the people bringing up the "tired" argument was Pochettino. Since he sees these players every day in training I'm leaning towards listening to what he says.

If this is the case, then there is something inherently wrong with our training and fitness set up.

 

[Baleforce]

shouldn't every side be drilled thusly?

 

[Pirate55]

It's good to look at positives, but to get the best long term out of the team you also have to look at the negatives. It's no disgrace to lose to Chelski, but why not go out and get the result in the same manner we also tried to get the result away at Arsenal? We frustrated Arsenal before starting to turn the screw and it nearly worked in getting us all three points. In the end it partially worked in that we got a very creditable draw. We played from a very solid base, whist yesterday we seemed to fire ourselves out of the blocks and attack them from the get go. And Chelski are a FAR better team. Why not be similarly cautious against them?

Yes, we were a whisker from taking the lead, but against a Jose team you have to play the long game and I don't think we did at all. It we played similarly to Arsenal but still lost say 1-0 or 2-0 late on, I don't think things would feel so bad.

Remember that these were young players whose confidence of knowing that they 'went toe-to-toe with Chelski for 20mins' could easily be shattered by a final scoreline that actually says 'yeah, yeah, play around all you like but in the end you're nowhere near touching us'

However, if we beat Palace AND play well, them all will feel better again...however if we don't (and that's NOT inconceivable) then this result will feel all the worse imo /QUOTE]

Agree with this.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

If this is the case, then there is something inherently wrong with our training and fitness set up.

Well, Poch has had significantly shorter with our players than Mourinho has had with his, quite possibly reasonable to think that our fitness levels will improve over time.

But in this particular case we played EL on Thursday, then PL again on the Sunday before facing Chelsea on the Wednesday. Chelsea on the other hand played Tuesday, Saturday, Wednesday. Perhaps a small difference, but a significant one to me at least. We also put a massive shift in against Everton. Running 5km more than any other team in that match round was it? Again, a smallish difference, but not an insignificant one.

It's not like Mourinho never rotates either. When they beat Liverpool away last season whilst in a congested period with important CL games against Atletico Madrid Mourinho changed most of his team.

Again. It was one change. One player. And we ended up playing rather well, we were unlucky not to score first and the scoreline flattered them. That's essentially what Mourinho said anyway. I really don't get what the big issue is with that one change from Poch.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

Well, Poch has had significantly shorter with our players than Mourinho has had with his, quite possibly reasonable to think that our fitness levels will improve over time.

But in this particular case we played EL on Thursday, then PL again on the Sunday before facing Chelsea on the Wednesday. Chelsea on the other hand played Tuesday, Saturday, Wednesday. Perhaps a small difference, but a significant one to me at least. We also put a massive shift in against Everton. Running 5km more than any other team in that match round was it? Again, a smallish difference, but not an insignificant one.

It's not like Mourinho never rotates either. When they beat Liverpool away last season whilst in a congested period with important CL games against Atletico Madrid Mourinho changed most of his team.

Again. It was one change. One player. And we ended up playing rather well, we were unlucky not to score first and the scoreline flattered them. That's essentially what Mourinho said anyway. I really don't get what the big issue is with that one change from Poch.

But that's the WHOLE point. It wasn't just one change. It disrupted the entire team. We completely changed just about everything in an attacking sense for no gain whatsoever.

On the one hand you are arguing that our players were tired because of the effort they put in against Everton, the more congested fixture schedule and the lesser time Poch has had with them compared to Mourinho and use this to somehow "explain" their tiredness. Yet on the other hand, you say it was only one change.

So, if the players were tired, why not make wholesale changes and save them for Palace? If they weren't tired, keep the same team, formation and strategy that worked so well against Everton?

To make the one change that fundamentally disrupts the whole team shape makes little sense to me.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

what was effect on our attacking play that Lamela in for Soldado brought about Pirate, in your view?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

what was effect on our attacking play that Lamela in for Soldado brought about Pirate, in your view?

Completely different type players, playing in completely different positions necessitating a complete reshuffle of the team.

Apart from that, er let me see......... Would be like replacing Drogba with Hazard maybe?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

can you expand on what effect you think it had on our play?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

what was effect on our attacking play that Lamela in for Soldado brought about Pirate, in your view?

Completely different type players, playing in completely different positions necessitating a complete reshuffle of the team.

Apart from that, er let me see......... Would be like replacing Drogba with Hazard maybe?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

i'll take that as a no then.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

can you expand on what effect you think it had on our play?

What effect do you think it had?

 

[Baleforce]

Re: ***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

personally, I think Soldado offers the quicker more direct ball where Lamela would look to get his foot on it and beat someone before getting his head up