Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand

[jts1882]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

It is still in the interest of the club to offer good terms to Archway, both for the PR and for speed. They went to the trouble of building a new facility for them (at least I assume it has been built given the time since the planning permission) so might as well use it. If the club agrees to pay of all relocation costs and a good-will (sic) payment then Archway could be in newer and possibly larger premises very quickly with minimal disruption to their business. They could argue they need new machining equipment installed so they can keep production going duriing the move. Using the old where they are, then using the new while they move the old equipment. That way they would end up with expanded capacity.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

It is still in the interest of the club to offer good terms to Archway, both for the PR and for speed. They went to the trouble of building a new facility for them (at least I assume it has been built given the time since the planning permission) so might as well use it. If the club agrees to pay of all relocation costs and a good-will (sic) payment then Archway could be in newer and possibly larger premises very quickly with minimal disruption to their business. They could argue they need new machining equipment installed so they can keep production going duriing the move. Using the old where they are, then using the new while they move the old equipment. That way they would end up with expanded capacity.

I thought they got offered a free lot, but had to pay for the building themselves? Plus a couple of million for their current site no doubt.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

Does anyone know the time line for archway. Like how long have they got to appeal and when they have to **** off by?

6 weeks.

But again, they can't appeal the decision. They can only appeal if they have strong grounds that the process was conducted improperly.

Does not mean they cannot try and hold things up

Who is purchasing Archway?

Haringey Council is compulsory purchasing the site of their factory.

It is still in the interest of the club to offer good terms to Archway, both for the PR and for speed. They went to the trouble of building a new facility for them (at least I assume it has been built given the time since the planning permission) so might as well use it. If the club agrees to pay of all relocation costs and a good-will (sic) payment then Archway could be in newer and possibly larger premises very quickly with minimal disruption to their business. They could argue they need new machining equipment installed so they can keep production going duriing the move. Using the old where they are, then using the new while they move the old equipment. That way they would end up with expanded capacity.

We don't offer terms.

Haringey Council buy it from them at independent valuation + a premium (say 10%).

They'll get the same price now as they were always going to get for it. They've just ****ed a big chunk of it up the wall on legal costs.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

I thought they got offered a free lot, but had to pay for the building themselves? Plus a couple of million for their current site no doubt.

I've no idea what they were offered. What is known is that Spurs got planning permission for the 500 WHL site and it stated that it was partially for Archway Steel.

How the deal would have been structured is another unknown. I assumed that as time is important Spurs would have developed the site and kept it as a carrot for Archway. My thinking was that if there was a complete building for Archway to move into then they can move quickly, while if they have to build it themselves there little incentive to cooperate. Does anyone know if the building works went ahead?

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

It is a bit Batteries Not Included isn't it.

It is. I was thinking more ordering something online, then tracing the package a few days later only to see that it hasn't left the supplier yet. But you analogy is perfect, at least in the old-timey world where all shops were closed when you opened your Christmas present.

It seems inevitable at this point that it will happen, just desperate for that one big final announcement from the club. I will keep the cigar safely in it's humidor until then. (or actually at the shop, I don't have a ****ing humidor, nor do I have cigars lying around unsmoked)

6 weeks.

But again, they can't appeal the decision. They can only appeal if they have strong grounds that the process was conducted improperly.


Haringey Council is compulsory purchasing the site of their factory.


We don't offer terms.

Haringey Council buy it from them at independent valuation + a premium (say 10%).

They'll get the same price now as they were always going to get for it. They've just ****ed a big chunk of it up the wall on legal costs.

Cheers.

So the fastest we could expect a final announcement from the club about everything being good and the building work commencing for realsies would be in 6 weeks? Or?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

So the fastest we could expect a final announcement from the club about everything being good and the building work commencing for realsies would be in 6 weeks? Or?

The chance of them appealing further is very small. The chance of them having any success is even tinier. So if we put in the revised planning permission and went out to tender for a builder on Monday, there's only a minute risk that we could come unstuck - probably not one worth hanging around for.

I wouldn't expect cranes on site etc. for 6-9 months anyway though. The planning permission and tendering stage will still take a while to get through.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

The chance of them appealing further is very small. The chance of them having any success is even tinier. So if we put in the revised planning permission and went out to tender for a builder on Monday, there's only a minute risk that we could come unstuck - probably not one worth hanging around for.

I wouldn't expect cranes on site etc. for 6-9 months anyway though. The planning permission and tendering stage will still take a while to get through.

Cheers again!

How confident are you on the time frame you suggest here? Any chance that the planning permission and tendering has been handled alongside the CPO work?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

Cheers again!

How confident are you on the time frame you suggest here? Any chance that the planning permission and tendering has been handled alongside the CPO work?

Btw I'm not especially knowledgeable about this - I'm largely just doing Jimmyb's job of synthesising bits I've read on SSC and other places.

My understanding is both planning permission and tendering have to be done in the public domain, so won't have happened yet.

But, we already have planning permission from 2009-10 for a marginally smaller stadium with a similar footprint. We've negotiated past all the listed buildings and the S106 issues. And the new Crossrail 2 plans for Northumberland Park also work in our favour re any concerns about the extra 4-9000 we want to add to the capacity. So getting the new Populous plans through should be a formality.

The tendering can be done in 2-3 months if our spec is all sorted. It has to go EU-wide because of the sums involved, but I expect our old pals McLaren will end up with contract.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

Btw I'm not especially knowledgeable about this - I'm largely just doing Jimmyb's job of synthesising bits I've read on SSC and other places.

My understanding is both planning permission and tendering have to be done in the public domain, so won't have happened yet.

But, we already have planning permission from 2009-10 for a marginally smaller stadium with a similar footprint. We've negotiated past all the listed buildings and the S106 issues. And the new Crossrail 2 plans for Northumberland Park also work in our favour re any concerns about the extra 4-9000 we want to add to the capacity. So getting the new Populous plans through should be a formality.

The tendering can be done in 2-3 months if our spec is all sorted. It has to go EU-wide because of the sums involved, but I expect our old pals McLaren will end up with contract.

That makes you considerably more knowledgeable about this than me

Have been reading some articles today, but none of them particularly informative. What people share from SSC and other places seems like a much better source of information at the moment.

Sounds very promising. Can't wait to see Levy in a hardhat and suit with a shovel in his hand looking uncomfortable

 

[mouville]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

Pictures from Archway Steel tis morning

Made me laughso deserves a =D>=D>=D>

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

Haringey Council is compulsory purchasing the site of their factory.

So the council are purchasing the site in order for use to build a better building and earn more money from it.

That is state aid... and could be seen by European Government as being so.

This is why IMO it would have taken so long by Eric Pickles and his team.. would Europe determine that the purchase be for the greater good of a deprived area or for a private company to make money from.

I think this will be Archways plan, they will not contest the CPO with the British Govenment, that they cannot win.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

So the council are purchasing the site in order for use to build a better building and earn more money from it.

That is state aid... and could be seen by European Government as being so.

This is why IMO it would have taken so long by Eric Pickles and his team.. would Europe determine that the purchase be for the greater good of a deprived area or for a private company to make money from.

I think this will be Archways plan, they will not contest the CPO with the British Govenment, that they cannot win.

No - the councils are almost like an estate agent arranging the transfer.

This happens hundreds of times every week. Every time a developer wants to build a new shopping centre/housing estate - the local council CPOs all the houses/business premises to facilitate it. 100s, even 1000s, of them are due to happen for HS2.

One famous example I can think of - Sheffield City Council used public money to CPO the whole of their city centre and then passed the land over to a private company called Hammerson to build a shopping centre called Sevenstone (this has been in the news a lot because Hammerson then did bugger all with the land for about 5 years and SCC embarrassingly had to buy it back off them).

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

So the rumours about state aid are complete bull**** then lol

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

they wont be able to do anything until the chelsea pitch owners sell up as they own the chelsea football club name and when the corrupt ruskie tried the other year they said no

Not an issue currently since Chelsea have, for the moment at least, given up looking for a new site and are instead investigating the feasibility of redeveloping Stamford Bridge.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

We don't offer terms.

Haringey Council buy it from them at independent valuation + a premium (say 10%).

They'll get the same price now as they were always going to get for it. They've just ****ed a big chunk of it up the wall on legal costs.

That's true once a CPO has been served.

But Spurs would have made Archway an offer at the very beginning of the process, prior to Haringey serving the CPO. And that offer would have been for any amount above market value that Spurs were prepared to pay in order to hurry along the whole process.

It was Archway's choice to turn that offer down. Their bad.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

So the rumours about state aid are complete bull**** then lol

I think someone is just confusing the situation with West Ham.

West Ham were going to get £40m of public funding to refit their stadium (before Levy called foul and got a triple lock that they'd never be able to own it).

All we've gotten away with is not being forced to build affordable housing that Haringey didn't want in that area anyway.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

That's true once a CPO has been served.

But Spurs would have made Archway an offer at the very beginning of the process, prior to Haringey serving the CPO. And that offer would have been for any amount above market value that Spurs were prepared to pay in order to hurry along the whole process.

It was Archway's choice to turn that offer down. Their bad.

Yeah - the other 98% of the Wingate Estate jumped at our generosity when we bought it all up (which we've been doing piece-by-piece over the last decade)

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

Btw I'm not especially knowledgeable about this - I'm largely just doing Jimmyb's job of synthesising bits I've read on SSC and other places.

My understanding is both planning permission and tendering have to be done in the public domain, so won't have happened yet.

But, we already have planning permission from 2009-10 for a marginally smaller stadium with a similar footprint. We've negotiated past all the listed buildings and the S106 issues. And the new Crossrail 2 plans for Northumberland Park also work in our favour re any concerns about the extra 4-9000 we want to add to the capacity. So getting the new Populous plans through should be a formality.

The tendering can be done in 2-3 months if our spec is all sorted. It has to go EU-wide because of the sums involved, but I expect our old pals McLaren will end up with contract.

A project of that size could be a little above McLaren's pay grade. Might be too much of a risk to go with them on their own.

But there was a story six months or so back that McLaren would team up with Spanish construction giant FCC to tender for the contract. If so, they'd stand a good chance because, as you point out, we have a good relationship with them and they've done a good job for us on both the training centre and the supermarket / technical college.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

So the rumours about state aid are complete bull**** then lol

Yeah, we're not being helped with funds. This is just the bureaucratic mill we have to go through.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Northumberland Development Project - CPO Now Granted!!!

So the rumours about state aid are complete bull**** then lol

Not complete bull****. Iirc, it was one of the objections - one of five (?) put forward by lawyers for Archway - that was listed in the document approving the CPO. It was dismissed by the SoS, but could still be tried as the basis of an appeal to the European court. It's just unlikely to succeed. It could still be a cause for delay, though.