Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He doesn't make any good points

TS picked Naughton, Rose, Kaboul, Dawson, nobody else, not the fans, not Levy, no ****ing one else. He could have started with 3 CBs, he could have added Sandro, He could have played Dembele, he could have played a youth team player.

He also should have known that Pool would have come out the blocks very quickly, so we didn't need to start with the high line and have their players run behind us 900 times in first 15 minutes.

He also should have gotten off his ****ing ass in the stand and got to the pitch once he saw his team being overrun.

At what point is it TS's fault?

you think im defending tim? how can i defend that...

His points regarding our defence being poo is one I agree with, he admits the cm pairing was daft, and his points about pool being shi** hot atm are true.

i said we would look better under pulis today.

Tim is not the answer, Avb wasnt the answer...gawd knows what the question is...our defence is an absolute crock of sh** how many of us want to persist with Rose, Naughton Kabs & Dawson? most of us want verts to do one as well.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Hahaha....I nominate the Pirate for the "Tim Sherwood need more time" badge award. Anyone out there object?

I wonder if we had the Pirate55 spouting such "we need a reality check people" posts after our drubbings with AVB?
Nah doubt it, then injuries and the 'cost of the players who are missing' was irrelevant.

Keep it up good sir. "Always someone else, it's never Tim's thought" :lol:

The players were poor under AVB and are poor under TS. One is not a maestro and one a clown Can't even you see the simple common denominator? Our players just aren't good enough. One point from 24 against the four top teams should lead even you to this conclusion.

Regarding Verts. Last year he was a good central defender. AVB insisted on playing him (against his own stated wishes) at left back. IMO he ruined him and he has never been the same player since.

Does TS deserve more time? I don't know - as I don't know whether he has what it takes or not. One can only realistically judge a head coach once he has had a fair chance. A reasonable time to bring in his own players and employ his own tactics using those players - not just try and work with the dying embers of someone else's failed experiment.

While I am as disappointed as anyone with today's result and performance, to lay all the blame on TS is far too simplistic IMO.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

if that's true I want him to stay and get a 10 yr contract

:ross:

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

While I am as disappointed as anyone with today's result and performance, to lay all the blame on TS is far too simplistic IMO.

agreed, that meeting of the top brass last summer...in Jamaica or wherever it was...the grand meeting where we planned out all our season...thats where poo must have started.

Tim can be blamed for today and for other results under his tenure...Levy,Baldini,AVB before that...if you want my order of blame it goes:

Levy
Baldini
Players
AVB/Sherwood

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

While I am as disappointed as anyone with today's result and performance, to lay all the blame on TS is far too simplistic IMO.

And in my opinion to blame it on the players is too simplistic.

Really, does anyone think if Pullis, Steve Bruce or a number of other managers were in charge today, or against Benfica or against "insert ****ing here" at this point we would have been tonked like that?

Defenders look like **** when you expose them, leave them open to passes that take them out of the game and put them under immediate and sustained pressure, I totally agree that Rose and Naughton aren't good enough (see weeks ago when I said they should never play in the same side together), but Kaboul, Vert, Dawson aren't suddenly **** defenders who get tonked every game against a decent side because of lack of personal ability.

Poor squad, poor formation, poor tactics, poor substitutions all point to manager for me.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The players' mental attitude was unacceptable today, and Sherwood needs to take some of the blame for that.

But the match stats are interesting:

Goals
4-0

Total Shots
11 - 15

Shots On Target
5 - 4

Shots from outside the box
6 - 8

Shots from inside the box
5 - 7

Shot Accuracy (excluding blocked shots)
45.5% - 40%

Total Passes
526 - 362

Passing Accuracy (%)
86.5% - 82.3%

Passing Accuracy opp. Half (%)
72.4% - 72%

Total Crosses
12 - 16

Successful Crosses (%)
25% - 31.3%


Fine margins, individual mistakes and everything going wrong that could go wrong explain a hell of a lot.

Don't you know that these stats show that it is ALL the managers fault! :-k

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The players were poor under AVB and are poor under TS. One is not a maestro and one a clown Can't even you see the simple common denominator? Our players just aren't good enough. One point from 24 against the four top teams should lead even you to this conclusion.

Regarding Verts. Last year he was a good central defender. AVB insisted on playing him (against his own stated wishes) at left back. IMO he ruined him and he has never been the same player since.

Does TS deserve more time? I don't know - as I don't know whether he has what it takes or not. One can only realistically judge a head coach once he has had a fair chance. A reasonable time to bring in his own players and employ his own tactics using those players - not just try and work with the dying embers of someone else's failed experiment.

While I am as disappointed as anyone with today's result and performance, to lay all the blame on TS is far too simplistic IMO.

On many occasion I've argued his corner against various posters who clearly have an agenda against him and twist everything so that it's all his fault. I try to take a fairly objective and reasonable view on things;

You are right, the blame can't all lie on him for Kaboul etcs performances. But relying on a 19 year old and a player who's barely played all season to protect the area in front if your back four, against a team very very good at exploiting this space, when you have someone who last year was thought of as the best defensive midfielder in the prem on the bench??? That is criminal. He's been shown up there, there is no defending that.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And in my opinion to blame it on the players is too simplistic.

Really, does anyone think if Pullis, Steve Bruce or a number of other managers were in charge today, or against Benfica or against "insert ****ing here" at this point we would have been tonked like that?

Defenders look like **** when you expose them, leave them open to passes that take them out of the game and put them under immediate and sustained pressure, I totally agree that Rose and Naughton aren't good enough (see weeks ago when I said they should never play in the same side together), but Kaboul, Vert, Dawson aren't suddenly **** defenders who get tonked every game against a decent side because of lack of personal ability.

Poor squad, poor formation, poor tactics, poor substitutions all point to manager for me.

See stats above.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

but Kaboul, Vert, Dawson aren't suddenly **** defenders who get tonked every game against a decent side because of lack of personal ability.

that is exactly what they are.

though I give you qdos they wouldnt look so bad with adequate midfield protection.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The players were poor under AVB and are poor under TS. One is not a maestro and one a clown Can't even you see the simple common denominator? Our players just aren't good enough. One point from 24 against the four top teams should lead even you to this conclusion.

Regarding Verts. Last year he was a good central defender. AVB insisted on playing him (against his own stated wishes) at left back. IMO he ruined him and he has never been the same player since.

Again, blaming AVB for 'breaking a player'. Laughable, but not unexpected from you of course.

Does TS deserve more time? I don't know - as I don't know whether he has what it takes or not. One can only realistically judge a head coach once he has had a fair chance.

Stone the crows...you've changed your tune

A reasonable time to bring in his own players and employ his own tactics using those players - not just try and work with the dying embers of someone else's failed experiment.

Did you notice we had a transfer window in January? Tim said "we had enough quality players we didn't need any more". So what changed since then eh? He didn't think we needed players...so you have to assume he thought he could employ his own tactics with those available (what most good managers have to do at least in part). What are his own tactics btw?
Bolded bit: Again, always "AVB's fault, you can't make Tim responsible for anything" :lol:

While I am as disappointed as anyone with today's result and performance, to lay all the blame on TS is far too simplistic IMO.

Who the hell is laying ALL the blame? Those who are laying any blame, are putting the most important issue at TS's door: his management of our team, which has been poor.

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. We didn't play a high line today.

2. Bentaleb and Siggy were not playing as a DM shield.

3. None of their 4 goals had anything to do with tactics.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

On many occasion I've argued his corner against various posters who clearly have an agenda against him and twist everything so that it's all his fault. I try to take a fairly objective and reasonable view on things;

You are right, the blame can't all lie on him for Kaboul etcs performances. But relying on a 19 year old and a player who's barely played all season to protect the area in front if your back four, against a team very very good at exploiting this space, when you have someone who last year was thought of as the best defensive midfielder in the prem on the bench??? That is criminal. He's been shown up there, there is no defending that.

As I said above, I agree with that. But only if both Sandro and Dembele were 100% fit. To me Dembele still does not look right. I have no idea on Sandro. If he was fit, then I would certainly have played him. TS can rightly be criticized for that if that was indeed the case.

 

[kanoute16]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And in my opinion to blame it on the players is too simplistic.

Really, does anyone think if Pullis, Steve Bruce or a number of other managers were in charge today, or against Benfica or against "insert ****ing here" at this point we would have been tonked like that?

Defenders look like **** when you expose them, leave them open to passes that take them out of the game and put them under immediate and sustained pressure, I totally agree that Rose and Naughton aren't good enough (see weeks ago when I said they should never play in the same side together), but Kaboul, Vert, Dawson aren't suddenly **** defenders who get tonked every game against a decent side because of lack of personal ability.

Poor squad, poor formation, poor tactics, poor substitutions all point to manager for me.

Finally a sensible post, players can only be as good as the manager leading them! TS has no idea how to do this - his time is drawing to an end, I can't wait for this nightmare to be over

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

A question: apart from Ade and Benbtaleb, who have actually played better overall under Sherwood? I'm really struggling with this tbh and I think the team as a whole have gotten worse under TS.

Is there ANYBODY that thinks he should continue in the job after the end of the season? If so please detail your reasons

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Don't you know that these stats show that it is ALL the managers fault! :-k

It does .. why is it so hard to understand?

Fact (or at least accepted)- Kaboul/Dawson/Vert all look like ****

TS apologist version - all our CBs are ****
My view - they were left completely exposed by poor FBs (that TS picked), the opposition manager targeted (Rose especially), and the fact that the team was obviously instructed to play a high line with some combination of not pressing the midfield (more time for better pass that can put CB under pressure) and not having the personnel to play that tactic (Siggy/Eriksen/Lennon/Townsend are not pressers)

Fact (or supported by stats) - our passing game is ****

TS Apologist version - 11 full international players, some with CL experience and wanted by other clubs can't ****ing pass a ball
My view - similar to Southampton, somehow everytime Pool had the ball, there was a pass on, everytime we had the ball, no opening, simple answer, we are not set up right, and we are not tactically aware of what we are supposed to be doing (and you can't tell me Southampton has a better team)


What else was wrong for TS, couldn't ****ing see from up there in the stand? how come in extra time, 4-0 up the opposition manager is telling his players what to do and TS is sitting in the stand?

 

[kanoute16]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. We didn't play a high line today.

2. Bentaleb and Siggy were not playing as a DM shield.

3. None of their 4 goals had anything to do with tactics.

Why do very good defenders look so poor then? are they doing it to spite us?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. We didn't play a high line today.

2. Bentaleb and Siggy were not playing as a DM shield.

3. None of their 4 goals had anything to do with tactics.

So did we have a DM shield at all?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It does .. why is it so hard to understand?

Fact (or at least accepted)- Kaboul/Dawson/Vert all look like ****

TS apologist version - all our CBs are ****
My view - they were left completely exposed by poor FBs (that TS picked), the opposition manager targeted (Rose especially), and the fact that the team was obviously instructed to play a high line with some combination of not pressing the midfield (more time for better pass that can put CB under pressure) and not having the personnel to play that tactic (Siggy/Eriksen/Lennon/Townsend are not pressers)

Fact (or supported by stats) - our passing game is ****

TS Apologist version - 11 full international players, some with CL experience and wanted by other clubs can't ****ing pass a ball
My view - similar to Southampton, somehow everytime Pool had the ball, there was a pass on, everytime we had the ball, no opening, simple answer, we are not set up right, and we are not tactically aware of what we are supposed to be doing (and you can't tell me Southampton has a better team)


What else was wrong for TS, couldn't ****ing see from up there in the stand? how come in extra time, 4-0 up the opposition manager is telling his players what to do and TS is sitting in the stand?

I like how you've broken it down to Fact, TS Apologist version and your view!

 

[diego_maradona]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1. We didn't play a high line today.

2. Bentaleb and Siggy were not playing as a DM shield.

3. None of their 4 goals had anything to do with tactics.

Would you say we looked like a well drilled side today with an understanding of what we were all supposed to be doing?

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

surely we cant be blaming a poor squad on timbo.

wtf was he meant to do??? a fly sale in January while every other club laughed at us and over inflated their prices?

yes he should have brought in a LB but I doubt Levy would have let him sell those who were not up to it in January...the time to get your business done is in the summer...January is for tweeking...adressing a crucial need.