Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I wasn't playing that card. As I said in my original post, the manager is not absolved of all blame but it can never be solely his fault which is how some people are looking at it in here. If AVB or TS or whoever is our manager chooses to play the u18's from now until the end of the season and we lose every game, you could conclude that the blame lies with the manager. For experienced, established, professional players to go out and seemingly be unable to follow the manager's instructions, some of the blame (again, not all) has to lie with the players.

Your assumption suggests that the manager's instructions are better than what we're seeing. That may not be the case.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Your assumption suggests that the manager's instructions are better than what we're seeing. That may not be the case.

Define better?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Define better?

Well, it's entirely possible that the instructions are causing the way we're playing, not the players failing to follow them.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well, it's entirely possible that the instructions are causing the way we're playing, not the players failing to follow them.

I agree it could well be, certainly not ruling it out. However based on post match comments I'd say it's a fair assumption to make that we are not playing in the way TS want's us to.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree it could well be, certainly not ruling it out. However based on post match comments I'd say it's a fair assumption to make that we are not playing in the way TS want's us to.

I'm not sure.

It certainly looks better to stand in front of a camera and say "I told them to do all the right things, they just didn't do it" than to say "Well you see, the trouble is I don't really know what I'm doing. I thought this would be easy, but it turns out that football management is really hard. Frankly I'm way out of my depth and I've just had my tactical @rse handed to me by Clipboard Chris."

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree it could well be, certainly not ruling it out. However based on post match comments I'd say it's a fair assumption to make that we are not playing in the way TS want's us to.

It doesn't matter though, his job is to get the players to follow his orders in a way that leads to success, by its nature, players not following orders is a failure on his part (as it was for AVB).

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm not sure.

It certainly looks better to stand in front of a camera and say "I told them to do all the right things, they just didn't do it" than to say "Well you see, the trouble is I don't really know what I'm doing. I thought this would be easy, but it turns out that football management is really hard. Frankly I'm way out of my depth and I've just had my tactical @rse handed to me by Clipboard Chris."

That is harder to believe when he has Chris Ramsey as part of his set up who everyone seems to have a very high opinion of.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That is harder to believe when he has Chris Ramsey as part of his set up who everyone seems to have a very high opinion of.

I really hope Ramsey isn't too involved in the current shambles - I'd like him to be as good as people seem to think. Don't forget that Timmeh was also highly regarded apparently.

Timmeh is generally regarded as quite arrogant (certainly seems it in interviews), so you'd have to ask yourself how much he'll listen to the advice of his assistants. On balance, he does seem to have listened to Les "What's a DM?" Ferdinand a fair bit.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I really hope Ramsey isn't too involved in the current shambles - I'd like him to be as good as people seem to think. Don't forget that Timmeh was also highly regarded apparently.

Timmeh is generally regarded as quite arrogant (certainly seems it in interviews), so you'd have to ask yourself how much he'll listen to the advice of his assistants. On balance, he does seem to have listened to Les "What's a DM?" Ferdinand a fair bit.

What? he's been far from arrogant in his interviews since taking over. In fact, he's been brutally honest and hasn't attempted to swindle us with utter bull**** like the previous manager and the one before that.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What? he's been far from arrogant in his interviews since taking over. In fact, he's been brutally honest and hasn't attempted to swindle us with utter bull**** like the previous manager and the one before that.

Honesty and arrogance are mostly unrelated. Except where arrogance allows people to be more confident in speaking what they believe to be the truth. Anyway, my above post is just what I hope - I've heard a lot of good things about Ramsey and the less he has to do with the current administration the better IMO.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I really hope Ramsey isn't too involved in the current shambles - I'd like him to be as good as people seem to think. Don't forget that Timmeh was also highly regarded apparently.

Timmeh is generally regarded as quite arrogant (certainly seems it in interviews), so you'd have to ask yourself how much he'll listen to the advice of his assistants. On balance, he does seem to have listened to Les "What's a DM?" Ferdinand a fair bit.

I doubt that Ramsey would have been working with Sherwood in the first place if the relationship was like that. I would assume that he is not short on offers.

I think that you are doing Ferdinand a slight disservice there too. He didn't say that, he said that he liked midfielders to be able to attack as well as defend. He is not alone in this, even some "progressive" coaches like their teams to play like this.

When it comes to the team being a shambles, it is something that has happened several times this season and under both managers.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm not sure.

It certainly looks better to stand in front of a camera and say "I told them to do all the right things, they just didn't do it" than to say "Well you see, the trouble is I don't really know what I'm doing. I thought this would be easy, but it turns out that football management is really hard. Frankly I'm way out of my depth and I've just had my tactical @rse handed to me by Clipboard Chris."

I'm pretty sure this would alienate every single one of the players pretty much immediately. I know you think he's stupid, but I genuinely don't think he's that stupid.

If it was the case that he doesn't have a clue, he certainly wouldn't be saying the players didn't do as I told them, he'd probably be saying it just wasn't our day or something along them lines which removes blame from both him and the players.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It doesn't matter though, his job is to get the players to follow his orders in a way that leads to success, by its nature, players not following orders is a failure on his part (as it was for AVB).

If you read my original post, I said that both managers and players have to share the blame. That's my point.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I really hope Ramsey isn't too involved in the current shambles - I'd like him to be as good as people seem to think. Don't forget that Timmeh was also highly regarded apparently.

Timmeh is generally regarded as quite arrogant (certainly seems it in interviews), so you'd have to ask yourself how much he'll listen to the advice of his assistants. On balance, he does seem to have listened to Les "What's a DM?" Ferdinand a fair bit.

Had AVB done the same interview as Ferdinand (which said he likes center midfielders to have ability going forward and wants to develop a fluid system where anyone can drop in and out rather than 'Whats a DM?') you would be hailing it as 'progressive'.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That is harder to believe when he has Chris Ramsey as part of his set up who everyone seems to have a very high opinion of.

Ramsey was previously U16s coach. So the level between Inglethorpe (U18s/next gen) and Bradley Allen (U15s). And all under McDermott.

That's not a comment on his ability, just that he wasn't all that senior in/integral to the setup. McDermott and (till his departure to Liverpool) Ingelthorpe have been the key guys who have sorted out the academy of the past 5 or so years.

 

[Yermiyahu]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well, it's entirely possible that the instructions are causing the way we're playing, not the players failing to follow them.

Yes, Tim instructed Soldado to fire the ball over the bar and Chadli to shoot straight at the keeper. Sherwood must improve !

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes, Tim instructed Soldado to fire the ball over the bar and Chadli to shoot straight at the keeper. Sherwood must improve !

So the players are at fault for those errors, what about the other 80 minutes of the match?

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So the players are at fault for those errors, what about the other 80 minutes of the match?

Even if Sherwood gives them terrible instructions the amount of under-hit passes, misplaced passes, lack of runs to give available options are all down to the players. Yes, there are players coming back from injury and there are players played in positions they don't favour, but the lack of energy and desire shown at some point has to come down to the players.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well, it's entirely possible that the instructions are causing the way we're playing, not the players failing to follow them.

Why is everything now Sherwood's fault but under AVB nothing was his fault?

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Why is everything now Sherwood's fault but under AVB nothing was his fault?

Because people don't like him for a variety of reasons, some of it warranted, some of it unwarranted, in my opinion. They've made their mind up and will use angles that suit their agenda, and in some cases, the same way they would use angles to defend AVB.

I know that you know that already, since it was a rhetorical question