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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Finney Is Back said:
Also doesn't help that the manager is hanging on to his job by a thread. He probably doesn't feel confident to go and demand players the way that (say) Redknapp would right now.
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What's to say these players wouldn't just laugh at the lovable old codger?

Why would they take Harry seriously?
 
Muttley said:
What's to say these players wouldn't just laugh at the lovable old codger?

Why would they take Harry seriously?
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You've missed my point entirely. The manager needs help (I think he needs sacking, but if not sacking him then at least give him help). However, in the precarious position he is in due to our terrible form he may not feel brave enough to be demanding that the board go and sign a player or two that he needs. I could imagine Redknapp in this scenario demanding the players our squad needs to fight their way out of a relegation battle (as happened in that January window when he came in with us in a spot of bother in the league).
 
Finney Is Back said:
You've missed my point entirely. The manager needs help (I think he needs sacking, but if not sacking him then at least give him help). However, in the precarious position he is in due to our terrible form he may not feel brave enough to be demanding that the board go and sign a player or two that he needs. I could imagine Redknapp in this scenario demanding the players our squad needs to fight their way out of a relegation battle (as happened in that January window when he came in with us in a spot of bother in the league).
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A lot of water under the bridge since then. In reality, we had 2 points from 8 games and by January we were not looking like relegation. It was such a shame that we didn't get Bellamy, instead of Robbie back. I'm trying to remember who we bought in that Jan window but I do remember a bunch of writing off debts with other clubs and bringing our old players back.

I think Harry turning up would just undermine the entire structure. Some would be OK with that I guess,
 
Muttley said:
A lot of water under the bridge since then. In reality, we had 2 points from 8 games and by January we were not looking like relegation. It was such a shame that we didn't get Bellamy, instead of Robbie back. I'm trying to remember who we bought in that Jan window but I do remember a bunch of writing off debts with other clubs and bringing our old players back.

I think Harry turning up would just undermine the entire structure. Some would be OK with that I guess,
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Again, you miss my point.... I'm saying that I doubt Frank is going and demanding that the board go out and sign players. He is probably avoiding any contact with them in case they suddenly happen to remember their duty to the club and sack him... Out of sight out of mind and all that!

As for your point about undermining the entire structure.... WTF?!?... What structure!
 
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At present Thomas Frank is rated our 4th worst manager since the premier league started in terms of points per game. Even Christian Gross had a better record.

The bad news is that after the next 4 games I suspect he'll slip below Santini and become our 3rd worst manager of the PL era, perhaps even our 2nd worst.

The good news is that if he continues picking up points at his same magnificent rate of 1.22 per game then we'd be long odds on to keep our PL status intact for another year!

Full list of Spurs PL managers with their PL PPG record (I have only listed managers who were in charge for at least 10 games).
  1. Sherwood: 1.91 (22 games)
  2. Poch: 1.89 (202 games)
  3. Conte: 1.88 (56 games)
  4. AVB: 1.83 (54 games)
  5. Redknapp: 1.74 (144 games)
  6. Mourinho: 1.64 (58 games)
  7. Ryan Mason: 1.58 (12 games)
  8. Jol: 1.51 (113 games)
  9. Nuno Santo 1.5 (10 games)
  10. Ray Clemence 1.40 (42 games)
  11. Gerry Francis 1.39 (119 games)
  12. Ange: 1.37 (76 games)
  13. George Graham 1.31 (98 games)
  14. Christan Gross 1.31 (26 games)
  15. David Pleat 1.29 (38 games)
  16. Hoddle 1.28 (89 games)
  17. Thomas Frank: 1.22 (23 games)
  18. Jacques Santini 1.18 (11 games)
  19. Ossie Ardiles: 1.15 (54 games)
  20. Juande Ramos: 1.14 (36 games)
 
Robspur12 said:
As worse for me would be JP Mateta. Who we will probably panic buy on the last day of the transfer window. I wouldn't mind bringing in someone like Omar Mamoush who we were linked to earlier in the Transfer Window.
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Marmoush is staying to fight for his place in one of the best sides in the country apparently, can't blame him
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Yeah agreed. We aren’t conceding goals on the break due to leaving too many men forward. That’s what is maddening about the goals we are conceding. Burnley’s first, Bournemouth’s…these were open play goals where we had plenty of men back. It’s a lack of confidence or assertiveness. When that ball is on the air and you need to decide what to do, do you freeze or do too take charge. I think our players are freezing. And it’s also happening at the other end when we do create chances, they are snatched at.
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When we have gone behind especially we have definitely been exposed more to the counter because we have committed players up front.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Again, you miss my point.... I'm saying that I doubt Frank is going and demanding that the board go out and sign players. He is probably avoiding any contact with them in case they suddenly happen to remember their duty to the club and sack him... Out of sight out of mind and all that!

As for your point about undermining the entire structure.... WTF?!?... What structure!
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I'm always thinking that Harry is the darling of the fans but not for the folks in the game itself. I think he is marmite to them. If he came to Spurs in the second half of the season to lend a helping hand, what exactly does he do? Does he become assistant manager or part of Frank's coaching team? Does Frank get to approve that? Does he get to circumvent the "typical process" and go straight to VV demanding Frank gets players? Does he just want players that Harry wants or will he represent his main stakeholder Frank? That's all a bit late now anyway with a few days left of the window.

Perhaps you should tell me in detail what Harry would be doing if he came back with Frank still in situ. It's obvious if Frank isn't, but nothing is obvious to me about bringing a marmite guy like Harry in when we have a structure in place.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I disagree, Xavi going in there closes down the zone of space for the right player to go in there, Xavi knows he is in a good position should our CM make the run that would be expected under any semi attacking manager. If his player then closes down Bissouma (likely as he is facing play) then Xavi has a 3 on 2 overload in a great position. (Coaching 101 is also staying still and waiting for the situation to develop as it should do when you are already in a good position ). I don’t want my number 10 moving into that space, killing a promising attack when we are 2 simple passes away from having an overload in a great area of the pitch.
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The key here is 'under any semi-attacking manager'.
In the circumstance, with Biss clearly not making that move, someone needs to or the whole moment dies.
I still think there are more ways for that situation to break, and that Xavi moving into that pocket to pick up ball on the half-turn is one of them. Solanke would surely make a run to drag his marker in such a scenario, leaving Xavi with space to work. There is also a scenario where Solanke moves behind the CB to bring his man, leaving Xavi with a straight 5-7 yard run ahead and into the channel (which I presume is what you're talking about). The biggest issues for me are not who should or shouldn't be there, it's the fact that no-one is and that we simply do not have a series of triggers and prompts in progressive patterns of play going forward via the central areas of the pitch (on this I know we agree). FWIW, I do have some coaching credentials BTW ;) albeit not FA ones (to your point about staying still and observing, Kane was brilliant in the box, but it also requires a sense of context as it isn't always the obvious thing to do).

p.s. this is what makes the game so much fun, discussing this sort of stuff. If I could be convinced that Thomas was actively discussing those areas of the pitch and our game with any such verve, I'd be greatly encouraged!!!!
 
tommysvr said:
So you think there’s only one level of proven? We can only ever buy the best and everything else is not worth it?

Richarlison was signed as backup to Harry Kane. He was not signed to be leading the line every week. He was not signed to be a 20 goal a season striker. He was very much a good — not great, not perfect, good — signing at the time.
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If that was the plan then we get what we get. And I don't think we should have gone for him
 
Raziel said:
We are not mate, we have a net spend of 0 and our last deal (which it seems we will miss out on) was a 3M bid.

I'm obviously not Frank in, but the club had abandoned him, his only chance of success was early quality recruitment in January. Instead we got a youth prospect and an opportunistic midfielder buy of same profile of what we already have to cover injuries.
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And we still didn't strengthen enough in the summer.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I don't. Our defenders are leading the scoring because we score most of our goals direct from set pieces or from the second ball in immediately after a set piece, or when we're losing the game and leave a centre back up there in the final few minutes to try to hail mary an equaliser.

We're not conceding goals because we're being caught on the break with our defenders too high up the pitch attacking. We're conceding goals with our defenders back defending. The coaching is just so all over the place that they don't know what they are supposed to be doing. I thought Ashley Williams' words on MotD are worth listening to.
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Wholly agree.
 
Robspur12 said:
I mostly agree with this, but VDV's goals are in the main, not last minute ones and the Romero's champions League goal was also early in the game. So I don't think what you're saying necessarily correlates. I do take your point about set pieces though. But We also do see VDV making marauding runs up the pitch given the chance.

Btw did you watch match of the day last night? Arsenal the league leaders are 17th when it comes to scoring from open play and 1st when it comes to set pieces goals. Now I think that will catch up with them eventually. But it's interesting that the leaders are not really great at carving out chances out side of set pieces.


I did see it but it related only to that game where it was obvious we were all over the place. Some of that down to Romero losing concentration or over committing. But also Frank was trying a new defensive formation which the players were clearly not accustomed to. Williams described scenarios that didn't lead to goals as well as how poor we were for the actual goals. The one that stuck in my mind was when we were running back completely out of our defensive shape. I think we are more open now than we were in those first few games so as a result we are conceding more goals. I am not saying we are effective in attack by the way. Just there has been a change since the start.
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I genuinely believe that if it wasn't for these two players -and particularly our captain- deciding to take the burden of responsibility onto their own shoulders and try to effect dominance, we would be in greater trouble. I'll add Porro to that list too. Against Dortmund for example, I believe it was Romero and Porro who both drove every dynamic of that first-half performance (Romero in particular refused to let us play anywhere other than virtually in their half). it was significant that after HT, we again sank back into that weird semi-soft amorphous 'mid-sitting-block' rather than spend the first 15 mins of the second-half looking to batter home a third or even fourth and thus allow for rotational subs and changes. And again at Burnley, we spent the second-half in this odd semi-state before the final 5-10 minutes when Burnley locked in deep to try and protect a win and we just threw kitchen sinks at them.
 
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Just to say, it is relief and respite to be able to have some civilised discussions about our current situation. I've noticed a marked atmosphere of 'we're all in this together' on the forum in recent weeks, and I'll say I appreciate the opportunity to be able to express and discuss my personal views and also get the perspectives of others.
COYS
 
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