Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Finney Is Back]

Arteta is a clam but he’s right about the actions in each box being critical.

We might be (are) improving our play, but it means nothing if we concede stupid goals and don’t tuck the ball away at the other end. Not scoring enough is the root of the issue. Our defence becomes focused on generating attacks and scoring and switches off on their main jobs. We are compromised and unbalanced, but there are positive shoots. 4 times out to 5 we’d win that game. And some of the build up play was actually decent. Yes it’s Burnley but they sat deep and made it hard. That final third ruthless precision is the missing X factor. All of our attackers are a bit shy. None have that pomp that Kane had and Son developed. Maybe Frank isn’t as strong a psychologist as say Pochettino. Or maybe Poch would also need time to get these back up players firing. Frank can turn average players into quality attackers, his record of that is there, but will he run out of time first? Probably.

Telling for me that once Burnley came out with some intent (second half) we were very much second best. If a team plays low block against us (like Sunderland at home first half) then it cons some people into thinking we are playing in a more adventurous, attacking way. As soon as a team push up and press us then we can’t cope (mainly because the team has no attacking patterns to play through a press).

 

[Finney Is Back]

He ditched us a player I’m sure if he did something half decent he would have been off to United again.

Let’s just concentrate on the first part of the plan and have a manager do something decent so,that a big club like Man Utd actually do want him…. Could you ever imagine Man Utd hiring Thomas Frank?

 

[Benny_Lad]

We bought Richarlison and Solanke, big money, proven Premier League signings. They haven't been what we need, but I'm not sure what more you'd expect?

Go on then @billyiddo, what would you expect?

Shall we dissect 'proven'?

Richarlison averaged a goal ever 250 mins in the season before we bought him. He's kind of delivered that.
Mbuemo averaged a goal every 170 mins the season before Utd bought him. He's kind of delivered that.

You get what you pay for.

There's also the eye test. My eyes tell me Richarlison often cant control a bag of cement and sometimes cant be bothered.

 

[Finney Is Back]

With three CBs I can see that. Equally, I can see a world where Xavi (by design or instinct) moves into that space, brings a marker with him and allows a square ball to Bissouma who would have a lot of space to move into or (if he chose) feed it out wide (I'd rather he went for a channel run personally). Or he takes that pass on the half-turn and attacks the space/channel in front of him, maybe creating a shooting opportunity or drawing a foul from the two Burnley defenders who would have to deal with him.

I think the wider issue is that no-one is going there. And that cannot be by accident sadly...

Sorry mate, Xavi moving into that space doesn’t do much if anything for us to be able to create a chance, it doesn’t open up opportunities through the centre. Bissouma needs to make the triangle with Oddobert, we would then be in a great situation, where the next pass has us in a really good position. Yes, there is a wider issue is that nobody is going in there, but it is really the RIGHT player going in there that is important. Bissouma would create the overload, under Frank we don’t create overloads because the tactics are negative, safety first ones.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Answered in a reply just above this. I can see both scenarios creating a lot more than no-one moving. The real coaching 101 is that time and time again, in those moments, we don't have anyone moving.

I think the biggest issue with Biss and not Xavi going at that moment is if possession is lost then Biss is out of position. This, of course, is why Frank is so risk averse that no-one looks to play or move much through the middle.

Again, for me, we can debate who should be moving into those pockets and what is or isn't coaching 101, the biggest issue is there is no-one moving because of this 'style' he insists upon inflicting.

I disagree, Xavi going in there closes down the zone of space for the right player to go in there, Xavi knows he is in a good position should our CM make the run that would be expected under any semi attacking manager. If his player then closes down Bissouma (likely as he is facing play) then Xavi has a 3 on 2 overload in a great position. (Coaching 101 is also staying still and waiting for the situation to develop as it should do when you are already in a good position ). I don’t want my number 10 moving into that space, killing a promising attack when we are 2 simple passes away from having an overload in a great area of the pitch.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Where do people see our next PL win coming from?
And when it happens, will we be in the drop zone?
Lastly, if by March/April we are officially in the drop zone or very VERY close to it, do we have the players to handle such a scrap?

 

[tommysvr]

Shall we dissect 'proven'?

Richarlison averaged a goal ever 250 mins in the season before we bought him. He's kind of delivered that.
Mbuemo averaged a goal every 170 mins the season before Utd bought him. He's kind of delivered that.

You get what you pay for.

There's also the eye test. My eyes tell me Richarlison often cant control a bag of cement and sometimes cant be bothered.

In what way was Richarlison not proven in the Premier League? All you’ve done is compare him to one other specific player.

“Can’t be bothered” is gonads too by the way. You could throw that at many players. Richarlison ain’t one of them.

 

[Baleforce]

Where do people see our next PL win coming from?
And when it happens, will we be in the drop zone?
Lastly, if by March/April we are officially in the drop zone or very VERY close to it, do we have the players to handle such a scrap?

Well we have City next and we always beat them.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well we have City next and we always beat them.

Not at home these days, we don't...

 

[tommysvr]

Not at home these days, we don't...

You're right that that they've won the majority of recent matches at home, but we've still got a pretty incredible record against them in the last 20 years: https://thfcdb.com/teams/manchester...erBy=date_desc&selectedView=list&homeOrAway=H

 

[Robspur12]

Really doesn’t look like it!

I think it does, with respect ,when our defenders are leading the scoring.

 

[Robspur12]

In what way was Richarlison not proven in the Premier League? All you’ve done is compare him to one other specific player.

“Can’t be bothered” is gonads too by the way. You could throw that at many players. Richarlison ain’t one of them.

For me, when it comes to strikers, "proven" only relates to goal scoring ability. Richarlison's figures in that respect show he is streaky at best. And he spends a lot of time in the treatment room. So he's not a player to lead the line.

Whereas the likes of Cunha, Mbeumo and Semenyo are, in my opinion a significant level up from the likes of Richarlison and Solanke (even though I do rate the latter more than a lot of people on here). They were consistently good for their teams when they made their step up and their price and competition from different clubs for their signatures showed that. Cunha was the standout player for wolves, (I think only Haarland was outscoring him?), Mbeumo the same for Brentford and Semenyo the same at Bournemouth. But we don't buy that kind of quality usually. And I think you wouldn't find many people, outside his most fervent supporters claiming that Richarlison is in the "elite" bracket.

I think striker is definitely an area we need to bolster with an "elite" player.

 

[paxtonwolf]

But Carrick gets Man Utd. He knows how they want to play, and he backs himself to get them to play. Might be a new manager bounce

I was impressed by his subs late on, proper 'went for it' none of this shutting-up shop try to hang on for a point

 

[tommysvr]

For me, when it comes to strikers, "proven" only relates to goal scoring ability. Richarlison's figures in that respect show he is streaky at best. And he spends a lot of time in the treatment room. So he's not a player to lead the line.

Whereas the likes of Cunha, Mbeumo and Semenyo are, in my opinion a significant level up from the likes of Richarlison and Solanke (even though I do rate the latter more than a lot of people on here). They were consistently good for their teams when they made their step up and their price and competition from different clubs for their signatures showed that. Cunha was the standout player for wolves, (I think only Haarland was outscoring him?), Mbeumo the same for Brentford and Semenyo the same at Bournemouth. But we don't buy that kind of quality usually. And I think you wouldn't find many people, outside his most fervent supporters claiming that Richarlison is in the "elite" bracket.

I think striker is definitely an area we need to bolster with an "elite" player.

So you think there’s only one level of proven? We can only ever buy the best and everything else is not worth it?

Richarlison was signed as backup to Harry Kane. He was not signed to be leading the line every week. He was not signed to be a 20 goal a season striker. He was very much a good — not great, not perfect, good — signing at the time.

 

[paxtonwolf]

He knows a top club, the pressure and expectations, and he knows the players probably didn't like playing with handbrake on and out of position (first thing, move Bruno up and bring in Mainoo behind, every idiot in England could see it, yet somehow not Amorim), any of that sound familiar?

And the new manager bounce in two games they would have expected to lose makes a huge difference.

Imagine if we had brough Carrick in on Jan 1, and he managed to get 9 points instead of 3 from Brentford, Bournemouth, Sunderland, West Ham, Burnley, we would be 7th/8th with all concerns for relegation gone, good feeling around the club and 3 points off a CL place?

But our club just stared at the train wreck and are continuing to do so .. we won't get the chance at those points back, and for what a manager that has lost the fans (there is no real way back from the away fans signing they want you gone), I can't imagine the players are loving it, and every game the bar gets lowered, we are looking for crumbs instead of performances and results.

Correct. And the odds are, things will more likely to get worse than they are get better right now

 

[Raziel]

We were soo bad in the league last season that unfortunately it was never going to be more than a great win but for the moment. I look at the firepower Utd have this season and I’m jealous tbh. Proven PL quality. We only really have Solanke. Hope we are looking to bring in a striker before the end of the January.

We are not mate, we have a net spend of 0 and our last deal (which it seems we will miss out on) was a 3M bid.

I'm obviously not Frank in, but the club had abandoned him, his only chance of success was early quality recruitment in January. Instead we got a youth prospect and an opportunistic midfielder buy of same profile of what we already have to cover injuries.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Where do people see our next PL win coming from?
And when it happens, will we be in the drop zone?
Lastly, if by March/April we are officially in the drop zone or very VERY close to it, do we have the players to handle such a scrap?

Alluded to this in another thread. The marker for safety tends to be 40pts (so we would need to get 12pts from 15 games)

Target matches for those 12pts I would suggest are:-
Crystal Palace (h) March 5th
Notts Forest (h) March 22nd
Brighton (h) April 18th
Wolves (a) April 25th
Leeds United (h) May

You could have Everton at home on the last day into that list, but you dont really want to be going to the last day needing to beat Everton to stay up (unless Hans Segers is going to be in goal for them....)

We probably wont need 40pts, but still. Any points less than 12 not secured in those games would need to be made up from the other 10 games, from which we could probably rule out City and Arsenal at home, Liverpool, Chelsea and Villa away

It seems a lot easier when you list them on paper, I reckon 38pts would be enough, and as posted previously if we cant pick 10pts between now and the rest of the season, we probably have deserved to be relegated

 

[paxtonwolf]

I think we'll see Frank switch tactics back to being more conservative for the big 4 Feb games. We won't be over-committing and will happily take draws.

I'm expecting him to last 2 or 3 of those games. I have a feeling he won't be in situ for the NLD.

Harry to take charge to inspire a 4-4 draw with a 45-yard volley from Simons and late goals from Gallagher and Odobert...

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

but the club had abandoned him,

And the fans and themselves.

Feel sorry for anyone who fell for the CEO notes or talk in the summer............utter gonads

 

[Mikey10]

Alluded to this in another thread. The marker for safety tends to be 40pts (so we would need to get 12pts from 15 games)

Target matches for those 12pts I would suggest are:-
Crystal Palace (h) March 5th
Notts Forest (h) March 22nd
Brighton (h) April 18th
Wolves (a) April 25th
Leeds United (h) May

You could have Everton at home on the last day into that list, but you dont really want to be going to the last day needing to beat Everton to stay up (unless Hans Segers is going to be in goal for them....)

We probably wont need 40pts, but still. Any points less than 12 not secured in those games would need to be made up from the other 10 games, from which we could probably rule out City and Arsenal at home, Liverpool, Chelsea and Villa away

It seems a lot easier when you list them on paper, I reckon 38pts would be enough, and as posted previously if we cant pick 10pts between now and the rest of the season, we probably have deserved to be relegated

If it had been 40 points last season we'd have been gone. Last three seasons a maximum of 33 has been enough, I believe? (Last season it was 26 points.)

Looking at the table as it stands I'd be pretty confident 35 will be enough, quite possibly less.