Finney Is Back
Barry Daines
The last fella won lots of trophies before he came and even did the pretty much impossible and won a trophy while here....
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Thomas Frank - Head Coach
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
nah I was being funny and you missed it/I wasn't actually very funny
Ohhh hahah, well played, I think hahah
glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
Finney Is Back
Barry Daines
I think he'll get the whole season unless we exit the FA Cup early and don't make the last 16 of the CL and we then remain in the bottom half going into the last quarter of the season. Though far better and more proven managers got the sack at Spurs without getting that luxury.
Finney Is Back
Barry Daines
For GHod's sake wear rubber gloves man!!!!
I was afraid as much....
The problem is not that "he hasn't got the coaching to naturally have us passing, moving and attacking in ways that naturally create decent chances for the attackers" or that "the players look like they don't practice it much."
It is because - as @Bishop - so eloquently described yesterday.... the players lack basic passing skills. Otherwise they would not be making an unforced passing error every 3 minutes!! The only way that you can create "decent chances" in this situation is to throw them all in attack hoping a chance materialises by sheer force of numbers. Ange tried that last year (and he actually could play the only two decent passers in the squad - both currently injured) and we saw what was the result of that.....
glasgowspur
Barry Daines
It would be interesting to see the xG for the PL as a whole, can't help but I feel like it has dropped, all feels very safety first from the majority of the teams.
Finney Is Back
Barry Daines
Click the link and you can see the XGs and just add them up.
Maybe the truth - unpalatable as it is - that many do not seem to want to accept.What have i just read...
The team that played in the last month needs a complete overhaul. Hopefully that will start in the short term by:
- Dom and Kulu returning (if and when that happens)
- Bergvall and Gray gaining experience and nous
- Simons finally adapting the premiership
But we need at least three windows.... and that is assuming our recruitment department does not repeat the pathetic performance of the past five years.
Baleforce
Chris Waddle
ricky2tricky4city
Chris Jones
With January being a tougher gig for transfers it's hard to imagine massive help.
I still think we look to improve the obvious requirements (left footed LB and probably a forward).
And I genuinely think there is much more in this group of players. Not all of them but a decent core.
Now the question is are they being stunted because of the way we're playing or Franks ability to coach them. Or are we in a process, but a process of little patience?
its really frustrating because we've had so many negative experiences in the last few years that its got most of those fans who err on the side of pessimism sitting there with a hair trigger, waiting for the manager to mess things up.
Factually, Ange took us backwards last season in the league - I didn't care about it once he won the trophy, but its a fact of life. For all of the "this is the building blocks for these players to go on and win more" stuff he said, there's definitely a case for saying in winning it the team and the manager were punching above their weight (for the season - not for the last 20 years).
But key in the above is that the injuries were the reason we gave Ange time. "When they are back we are better" was the mantra. Its actually arguably as difficult for Frank right now.
Frank has come into a side that has lost Sonny, who was worth 22 goal involvements last season (11 goals, 11 assists). Solanke then got crocked in a way that so far I'm not clear on whether its physical, mental or chemical to be honest, and with that goes another 24 goal involvements (16 goals, 8 assists). Kulusevski's injury didn't stop him from 21 goal involvements (10 goals and 11 assists) and then there's Maddison's 22 involvements (12 goals and 10 assists). Add in the fact that Johnson didn't fit, for whatever reason, (18 goals, 4 assists) and the fact that the cost of being defensively sound is that Porro has gone from being a major creator (9 assists and 4 goals) to nothing (1 assist, no goals).
Total all that up and its 124 goal involvements. Now they overlap as assists create goals, so the sums are not perfect, but that is 65 less pro rata at this stage of the season compared to last year.
Some fans who are lauding our recent history need to recognise the above, and then also acknowledge that for the last ten years:
Kane:
Sonny:
That is without considering the purple patch seasons we had with the likes of Bale, Alli, Moura - which can be offset I appreciate by the likes of Johnson or Kulu for instance.
Simply put, we were always a good team but we had exceptional forwards, for a decade. If we want to get back there, forget the style of football, the manager's philosophy, its about the world class front line.
Ange did an incredible job of getting our goal return to stay at a high level without Kane - it came at the cost of our defensive approach and also broke a lot of players. Frank has gone a different way - until we have the players to play well up top, we're going to be hard to beat.
Factually, Ange took us backwards last season in the league - I didn't care about it once he won the trophy, but its a fact of life. For all of the "this is the building blocks for these players to go on and win more" stuff he said, there's definitely a case for saying in winning it the team and the manager were punching above their weight (for the season - not for the last 20 years).
But key in the above is that the injuries were the reason we gave Ange time. "When they are back we are better" was the mantra. Its actually arguably as difficult for Frank right now.
Frank has come into a side that has lost Sonny, who was worth 22 goal involvements last season (11 goals, 11 assists). Solanke then got crocked in a way that so far I'm not clear on whether its physical, mental or chemical to be honest, and with that goes another 24 goal involvements (16 goals, 8 assists). Kulusevski's injury didn't stop him from 21 goal involvements (10 goals and 11 assists) and then there's Maddison's 22 involvements (12 goals and 10 assists). Add in the fact that Johnson didn't fit, for whatever reason, (18 goals, 4 assists) and the fact that the cost of being defensively sound is that Porro has gone from being a major creator (9 assists and 4 goals) to nothing (1 assist, no goals).
Total all that up and its 124 goal involvements. Now they overlap as assists create goals, so the sums are not perfect, but that is 65 less pro rata at this stage of the season compared to last year.
Some fans who are lauding our recent history need to recognise the above, and then also acknowledge that for the last ten years:
Kane:
Sonny:
That is without considering the purple patch seasons we had with the likes of Bale, Alli, Moura - which can be offset I appreciate by the likes of Johnson or Kulu for instance.
Simply put, we were always a good team but we had exceptional forwards, for a decade. If we want to get back there, forget the style of football, the manager's philosophy, its about the world class front line.
Ange did an incredible job of getting our goal return to stay at a high level without Kane - it came at the cost of our defensive approach and also broke a lot of players. Frank has gone a different way - until we have the players to play well up top, we're going to be hard to beat.
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I think he would have likely refused to play the way he was told to, and continued trying to play his style (“It’s who we are mate”) and we would have continued to have similar league form, plus get battered in the Champions league by stronger opposition. I think he’d have been sacked by now with us languishing closer to the bottom points wise.
Frank is up against better teams in the Champions league, though the league form should be better than what we have witnessed. He needs time, players and some patience. There are deeper rooted issues in the club for me that aren’t solved by just having managers on rotation. We don’t miraculously improve just by changing Frank in my view.
...half way through his first season.
There's a difference between being happy with where we are vs wanting to give more time to turn things around/improve things.
Which he only did by switching to pragmatic tactics (aka defensive block) on a needs must basis - which is exactly what Frank is doing until he gets some decent creative options either by injury returnees or new recruits.
I am not saying that the guy should be our manager for a decade... simply to lay off his back until the above happens and give him a fair crack of the whip.
Maybe it's because my work requires evidence-based decision-making but for the life of me, and for my ignorance....
can you explain how "the way we are playing" results in a misplaced pass every three minutes???
I honestly think if we more often than not play the way we did in the first half yesterday, but with Kulu, Solanke and Maddison in there we start adding points rapidly.
Hopefully we can find options in the transfer market.
ricky2tricky4city
Chris Jones
I don't think it's overlooked as such BUT losing two generational WC forwards (many clubs never have any) is a massive loss and will leave a huge hole.
You get used to that quality And lose sight that you're actually witnessing something extraordinary.
Didn't they constantly smash their Xg every season?
We were very very lucky to have them.
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
Whilst acknowledging we have lost every player involved in last season entire goal contributions and navigating the CL.
Frank needs to show more, Frank also is navigating a less than perfect Tottenham Storm, 4 months in. I don't understand why there is so much uproar acknowledging both sides.
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glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
Ok, there is some merit to saying we need better players who can control he ball better, especially up front (see Richarlison's generally poor touch).
We have shown some poor ability to pass even a few yards at times, true.
But, looking at the players who started yesterday, are we really saying that in terms of ball control most of the players can't do that basic thing? Are we saying that players like Porro have never previously shown an ability to pass well in attack?
Have Romero, VDV, Bentancur, never previously been able to control a ball and pass into the right place for a teammate to take on the ball and go forwards?
We know the limitations of Richarlison, Davies when being pressed etc, but what about the other members of the back four?
We have to increase the skill ability of the squad, sure, but are we really behind Brentford, Sunderland, Everton in terms of players/player quality?