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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Finney Is Back said:
I don't think Ange did have us believing that. He did brilliantly getting us a 5th place finish in season 1 after losing Harry Kane. Season 2 was a terrible season in the league, where I think we would've still finished in the bottom half even without the focus moving to the Europa League. However, it was very clear on here that people didn't find it acceptable to be in the bottom half of the table, even with him having the kudos from a 5th place finish and a Europa League win. It seems to me that it is mostly the "Ange out" mob that now think it is fine for a manager to have us in the bottom half.
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Tbh, i think you'll likely find it's the club hierarchy that don't think it's acceptable to be in the bottom half...
 
Kandi1977 said:
History says yes.
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Fair enough.

I guess what i was saying is that sometimes you can see that a manger isn't going to work long-term. The way losses happen, the lack of ability to defend, process the ball forward, always being outwitted in the tight games, London derbies etc

I'm not sure Frank will, but we need to give him the season at least and then review in the summer
 
Kandi1977 said:
How do you get to know if a manager is a good long term fit when you sack them after 6 monhts-1 year?
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Also who can see inside the minds of their workings to get to where they see their own Everest. Trying to unpick long term mess and players that coaches and managers don't think can suit takes time, thats regardless of style, thats just how it works. That takes longer than 6 months.

Not making direct comparisons with Arteta, but thats exactly what he did, he gave his squad major surgery and surrounded himself with players he can trust and can action his orders, its the clearest example of that anywhere to be seen. I believe Amorim was heading that was with United, who were much worse state, before he killed himself with "I am a manager not a coach" and falling out with bosses.

If we are happy to spend the next 10 years hiring and firing, thats cool, but don't expect any major success long terms and sustained
 
Finney Is Back said:
Sorry to cut your excellent post down to just this bit but I actually think that Amorim's system might have been starting to work at Man Utd. Their numbers have improved quite considerably this season. They have the 3rd best XG in the league this season and the 6th best XGA. Their numbers so far this season say that they were likely to be playing CL football next season.
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I think achieving CL football for next season, this season...just doesn't feel like the mountain climbed it used to be. Its open to everyone down to 16th. The authority of bigger teams is just not there. Literally evidenced by random results.

And I think that is (was) still Amorins problem....United could still pull off stupid draws or losses and head scratching performances. Tbf it does feel like he's been there longer than he has (13 months) and he only had 1 full pre season. BUT he was backed and received quality signings, and just that on its own should provide an uptick, I just don't think it felt like it was coming together. The manager himself has to add value at some point.

A phase we are obviously concerned about with our own manager...but TF is behind him on the timeline.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think achieving CL football for next season, this season...just doesn't feel like the mountain climbed it used to be. Its open to everyone down to 16th. The authority of bigger teams is just not there. Literally evidenced by random results.

And I think that is (was) still Amorins problem....United could still pull off stupid draws or losses and head scratching performances. Tbf it does feel like he's been there longer than he has (13 months) and he only had 1 full pre season. BUT he was backed and received quality signings, and just that on its own should provide an uptick, I just don't think it felt like it was coming together. The manager himself has to add value at some point.

A phase we are obviously concerned about with our own manager...but TF is behind him on the timeline.
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The constant games every 3 days until, what February means it will be a team who can rotate and get in a sync of winning games relatively regularly gets top 4/5.

Only those with reletively big squads or settled attacks or defences can be sure of doing that imo. If we could keep a clean sheet AND if we had killer up front, i'd certainly back us.

Sadly, it's why Arsenal will almost certainly win the league now ans they can park their bus to set-piece wins from now....YUCK!
 
As a counterfactual, how would we have looked this season if Ange had continued, but was told he has to play like we did in the latter stages of the EL all the time and he had to hire a set piece coach?

My feeling is we'd look essentially like we have this season. What Frank has managed to do here so far seems very basic. Defend well by defending in numbers and playing low risk football. Just live with not really creating anything in open play and being a boring watch. Hope we nick a goal from a set piece so we get a goal to defend and maybe counter attack sometimes.

If that's part of a process that leads somewhere else, fair enough I guess. But I don't see the progress from what we were clearly capable of doing last season too (again, in the EL latter stages). At best a standstill while we wait for another transfer window to sign better players.

He for sure needs help in the January window.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Also who can see inside the minds of their workings to get to where they see their own Everest. Trying to unpick long term mess and players that coaches and managers don't think can suit takes time, thats regardless of style, thats just how it works. That takes longer than 6 months.

Not making direct comparisons with Arteta, but thats exactly what he did, he gave his squad major surgery and surrounded himself with players he can trust and can action his orders, its the clearest example of that anywhere to be seen. I believe Amorim was heading that was with United, who were much worse state, before he killed himself with "I am a manager not a coach" and falling out with bosses.

If we are happy to spend the next 10 years hiring and firing, thats cool, but don't expect any major success long terms and sustained
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I think (and for many clubs it's the only option) you keep throwing managers at the wall until someone sticks.

You can only do so much due diligence about a manager on the way in (and most of that will be weighted on 'hes doing well at another club') then it relies on what you present to him and probably luck of timing and circumstance.

For example, did it feel like we did anything amazing or pushed the boat out for Poch? Nope. He just stuck to the wall.
 
glorygloryeze said:
I agree, largely. It does seem he hasn't got the coaching to naturally have us passing, moving and attacking in ways that naturally create decent chances for the attackers aside from crosses. Even when having chances on the counter the running, positioning and passing angles taken by the players look like they don't practice it much.
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Just hope that this is very much tongue in cheek....
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think (and for many clubs it's the only option) you keep throwing managers at the wall until someone sticks.

You can only do so much due diligence about a manager on the way in (and most of that will be weighted on 'hes doing well at another club') then it relies on what you present to him and probably luck of timing and circumstance.

For example, did it feel like we did anything amazing or pushed the boat out for Poch? Nope. He just stuck to the wall.
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I agree, it seems the way of the footballing world now
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think (and for many clubs it's the only option) you keep throwing managers at the wall until someone sticks.

You can only do so much due diligence about a manager on the way in (and most of that will be weighted on 'hes doing well at another club') then it relies on what you present to him and probably luck of timing and circumstance.

For example, did it feel like we did anything amazing or pushed the boat out for Poch? Nope. He just stuck to the wall.
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Poch was a once in a (or two) generation event where all the planets aligned. Not going to happen - especially with the current lot.

Seeing as we have gone through the whole gamut of coaches.... celebrity (Jose/Conte) who won everything except with us as well as promising and tactical (Nuno/Frank) - and none "stuck", doesn't it make it obvious that the problem is not the coach???

Your approach is akin to trying to polish a turd.... never worked and never will. The only way to address this is pick up that turd, through it out, wipe the floor clean and then wash with a nice-smelling detergent. It's a dirty process, you will get brick on your hand and be nauseated from the smell. However if you have the guts and patience to stick at it, you may - just may - have a decent room at the end of it.
 
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