Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Raziel]

If you look at the passing stats, they back up what you’re saying: passing through the middle is generally poor, with most of the play coming down the wings. Frank’s system simply exacerbates that weakness. I’ve seen the numbers as well, and they’re clearly worse now, but that’s largely because his style exposes the squad’s underlying lack of passing quality. The root of the problem is the limited passing range and execution to begin with. Ange was able to mask it to some extent by using a short-passing approach that encouraged close combinations, but the actual quality of the passing wasn’t any better.

Which is why people like myself, @fernadez and @Jurgen the German were speaking about it even before last season but in the window particularly.

So based on that, either Frank can't work with this quality of player (I still find it hard to believe as an 11 or 25, Brentford was so much better than us technically), or he is unwilling to adjust to ensure we do more with the ball (if as you say, our players lack basic passing ability, not sure how hoofing the fudging thing 45 yards helps)

If I saw triangles, players making themselves available, runs into open spaces, stretching the pitch, if I saw those things and the players continually fudged up passes I'd have a lot more sympathy. The continued piece under Frank that annoys me is throw ins (not the long ones), there is so little player movement or options, for someone that supposedly works on every detail, that one sticks.

Ange for me had triangles and patterns, the issue was at the top end of the pitch his system encouraged overloads (crowded the space).

For discussion

- Last season, pass completion % 85.3, rank 7th in league
- This season, pass completion % 82.1, rank 11th in league

 

[veryoldspur]

I say give TF a season, even two - we all know that teams to progress under a manager (coach?) vision needs time and windows to get players in and out

Let us not forget, this is a spectator sport partly funded by people paying an average of £2k for a season ticket. We should also remember the club is and will also lose large amounts of revenue because fans won't attend games, and we won't get revenue from Europe or even domestic cups. Hanging on for him to turn things around is just idealism. Meanwhile we would all have to sit through paint drying

 

[Muttley]

Right now, TF is being left to take the punches (just like his predecessor was).

LOL, but Ange has a very punchable face. You have to admit that. It's a face only a mother could love

 

[glorygloryeze]

LOL, but Ange has a very punchable face. You have to admit that. It's a face only a mother could love

I don't know, i think as a younger man he had a 'Lady Lover' look....

 

[Raziel]

Let us not forget, this is a spectator sport partly funded by people paying an average of £2k for a season ticket. We should also remember the club is and will also lose large amounts of revenue because fans won't attend games, and we won't get revenue from Europe or even domestic cups. Hanging on for him to turn things around is just idealism. Meanwhile we would all have to sit through paint drying

The club supposedly already dropped ticket prices for the cup game, tickets are now always available for resale, and drinks/food sales must be down (people hang around more after wins). That combined with fan booing will make his job harder to keep

 

[Muttley]

I don't know, i think as a younger man he had a 'Lady Lover' look....

Chattersley?

 

[Mabspurs]

View attachment 21153

How tasty (or probably sour) are the cherries that you picked?

 

[Finney Is Back]

You are someone who clearly is very focused on statistics.... so here is one: An unforced passing error every three minutes....

Does that answer your question of what is more likely?

@Mabspurs - in case you didn't see my previous post.... Please can you send me the link to where you got this stat please (I'm genuinely interested in seeing this as I am something of a statto).

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Let us not forget, this is a spectator sport partly funded by people paying an average of £2k for a season ticket. We should also remember the club is and will also lose large amounts of revenue because fans won't attend games, and we won't get revenue from Europe or even domestic cups. Hanging on for him to turn things around is just idealism. Meanwhile we would all have to sit through paint drying

Its not 2k on average but even it it was, the idea that people would also happily not care about winning games of football, as long as they play attractive losing is ridiculous and about as true as people saying "I would take a couple of years of paid, just to win a trophy", that went out the window fast

Loads of hills being died on, on both sides, lets not make out there are not.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Its not 2k on average but even it it was, the idea that people would also happily not care about winning games of football, as long as they play attractive losing is ridiculous and about as true as people saying "I would take a couple of years of paid, just to win a trophy", that went out the window fast

Loads of hills being died on, on both sides, lets not make out there are not.

Either/or would be a big improvement on what we're getting right now where we're neither winning nor playing attractive football.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I feel like these sort of stats aren't THAT telling - It doesn't dive into things such as number of games played/European games managed, circumstances was managing under (What's going on at board level/issues with squad), actual points per game rather than just win percentage etc etc

We all know he could be doing better in a lot of areas, but I'm not seeing a lot of downside to just evaluating at the end of the season and see exactly where we are with everything. Right now, whilst we almost to a man agree the football to date has left a lot to be desired we are 4 points off 5th and 2 points off 3rd in the CL so there is no need to go all panic stations and start the managerial conveyor belt just yet just because Frank isn't playing the way we would like - it is far from a disaster, more so underwhelming at the moment. He recognises that the football needs to improve, he has said so a few times so lets see if it comes together for the second half of the season.

And if worst comes to worst would likely be better to recruit a new manager in the summer anyway....

It's a f**king stupid chart for all of the reasons you outline and more. If we take win % as the sole metric to determine the competence of our managers, Bill Nic and Arthur Rowe aren't even in the top 10 and are behind such luminaries as Tim Sherwood, Ryan Mason and AVB.

Agenda driven flimflam.

I don't have any love for Frank, don't like his football but give him the season and judge him then. And judge him on more than one stat.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

It's a f**king stupid chart for all of the reasons you outline and more. If we take win % as the sole metric to determine the competence of our managers, Bill Nic and Arthur Rowe aren't even in the top 10 and are behind such luminaries as Tim Sherwood, Ryan Mason and AVB.

Agenda driven flimflam.

I don't have any love for Frank, don't like his football but give him the season and judge him then. And judge him on more than one stat.

I think 90% of the defence I see of Frank isn't actually defence of Frank, its refuting nonsense

 

[Mabspurs]

Ange for me had triangles and patterns, the issue was at the top end of the pitch his system encouraged overloads (crowded the space).

He also encouraged sucker punches on transitions and left us wide open at the back. I appreciate that it may not be sexy, but I was always of the impression that defence is as important as attack; and often the cornerstone for a successful side - yet the obvious improvement is clearly sidelined and ignored by the naysayers...

For discussion

- Last season, pass completion % 85.3, rank 7th in league

Last season rank: 17th in the league; no discussion needed....

 

[Finney Is Back]

He also encouraged sucker punches on transitions and left us wide open at the back. I appreciate that it may not be sexy, but I was always of the impression that defence is as important as attack; and often the cornerstone for a successful side - yet the obvious improvement is clearly sidelined and ignored by the naysayers...



Last season rank: 17th in the league; no discussion needed....

And Europa League winners; Lots of discussion needed....

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's a f**king stupid chart for all of the reasons you outline and more. If we take win % as the sole metric to determine the competence of our managers, Bill Nic and Arthur Rowe aren't even in the top 10 and are behind such luminaries as Tim Sherwood, Ryan Mason and AVB.

Agenda driven flimflam.

I don't have any love for Frank, don't like his football but give him the season and judge him then. And judge him on more than one stat.

Points per game for (top division) league games only (with 3 points fo ra win) is a decent measurement metric - Frank is sitting on 1.35ppg at the moment. I'm not sure how that compares to our other managers, though I do remember that Nuno was sacked having got 1.5ppg.

 

[Mabspurs]

@Mabspurs - in case you didn't see my previous post.... Please can you send me the link to where you got this stat please (I'm genuinely interested in seeing this as I am something of a statto).

Spurs vs Sunderland, Premier League | Every word of Thomas Frank's pre-match press conference | Tottenham Hotspur

Thomas Frank spoke to the media at Hotspur Way on Friday, ahead of our Premier League clash against Sunderland at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on Sunday (3pm UK). Here's what he had to say...

www.tottenhamhotspur.com

 

[Mabspurs]

And Europa League winners; Lots of discussion needed....

I was always taught that the league position was the true barometer of a team's quality and cups were very much luck dependent. In last year's case big time.... since we never met a team ranked higher than us in the competition... and even then qualified for the knockout in the last game and especially thanks to our academy kids...

 

[Mabspurs]

Points per game for (top division) league games only (with 3 points fo ra win) is a decent measurement metric - Frank is sitting on 1.35ppg at the moment. I'm not sure how that compares to our other managers, though I do remember that Nuno was sacked having got 1.5ppg.

Nuno was sacked because Conte was available and had accepted to come.... are you seeing any coach on the horizon who can realistically come in and do better? Or maybe you would like Ryan Mason to come back as interim?

 

[Raziel]

Points per game for (top division) league games only (with 3 points fo ra win) is a decent measurement metric - Frank is sitting on 1.35ppg at the moment. I'm not sure how that compares to our other managers, though I do remember that Nuno was sacked having got 1.5ppg.

Nuno was 1.5, Ange was 1.37, Frank is in 13th for PL Spurs managers

 

[Bishop]

Maybe they were just a particularly vociferous minority but I seem to remember a lot of comments that insinuated the manager was the only problem and that the players we have should have us in the top 6 (which I disagreed with then and still do now by the way).

I think most of those people who said that the manager wasn't getting the best out of the players then are also still saying the same thing now. Raziel as an example. He's consistent, he didn't think Ange was maximising the players and he doesn't think Frank is either.