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The Y word

Never sang much when I went regularly to WHL or away so not much of an issue from me. Just always saw the chants as our chants and that was the start and end of it. I'll give the findings a read later, as it stands it's just another death nell (nail?) in the football I grew up knowing mid 70's onwards. Like I said I'll have a good read later to the history behind the word and come to a conclusion. Another person/group being offended when it's really not the intention or something more sinister? I'll see....
 
Yes, you are right.
There are already comments coming out from other groups and the problem is that the view is that Spurs fans are being anti-semitic in their use of the term, which we know isn't the intention.
And I must admit, despite what I said above, it immediately puts me on the defensive.
A few years ago I would have defended the use of it in the same way people use the N word to "reclaim the sentiment".
I've changed my view - I do think we need to stop using it. It has been stoked up (significantly by Baddiel, whose intentions I believe are in the right place - he just let his club loyalties direct him to the wrong target) to the point where us using it now looks ignorant.

The premise behind our use is anti-Semitism - the point has been made. Let's stop using it and use it's non use to expose the racism and general vileness of certain other clubs. Remove the "yeah I know I did, but what about you" defence from the scummy elements.
 
Never sang much when I went regularly to WHL or away so not much of an issue from me. Just always saw the chants as our chants and that was the start and end of it. I'll give the findings a read later, as it stands it's just another death nell (nail?) in the football I grew up knowing mid 70's onwards. Like I said I'll have a good read later to the history behind the word and come to a conclusion. Another person/group being offended when it's really not the intention or something more sinister? I'll see....

I think it's the opposite of a death knell to the good parts of what you experienced growing up.
If anything it's a reaction to some of more unsavoury elements of the 70s returning (not in the same way/volume. Certainly not yet anyway - but cost and quality of life squeezes tend to run parallel)
 
There is a real purpose to chanting, research suggests that chanting leads to improved mood, reduced stress, and increased wellbeing. It is an important part of the experience. I cant see this chant going away overnight. The first time I heard the chant was when the drummer was still in the ground. I don’t go to matches very often but I have never really felt very comfortable with it. There are strong arguments for both sides and I agree that we should move on. But I do not think that the chant will stop until an alternative is found.

I am not a linguist or a psychologist, but this is a powerful chant on two pitches. This simple sound structure will be very hard to replace, like it or not it has become part of the match day ceremony or ritual for many. To find a word that can mimic this sound and have any meaning is going to be a very difficult. Chants have to come from the supporters or else they have no meaning and that is part of the problem. The closest thing that I can think of is the Icelandic thunderclap which intimidates the opposition and inspires their players. I doubt that we will ever be able to do that.
 
There is a real purpose to chanting, research suggests that chanting leads to improved mood, reduced stress, and increased wellbeing. It is an important part of the experience. I cant see this chant going away overnight. The first time I heard the chant was when the drummer was still in the ground. I don’t go to matches very often but I have never really felt very comfortable with it. There are strong arguments for both sides and I agree that we should move on. But I do not think that the chant will stop until an alternative is found.

I am not a linguist or a psychologist, but this is a powerful chant on two pitches. This simple sound structure will be very hard to replace, like it or not it has become part of the match day ceremony or ritual for many. To find a word that can mimic this sound and have any meaning is going to be a very difficult. Chants have to come from the supporters or else they have no meaning and that is part of the problem. The closest thing that I can think of is the Icelandic thunderclap which intimidates the opposition and inspires their players. I doubt that we will ever be able to do that.
I simply chant The Army instead
Works for me
 
There is a real purpose to chanting, research suggests that chanting leads to improved mood, reduced stress, and increased wellbeing. It is an important part of the experience. I cant see this chant going away overnight. The first time I heard the chant was when the drummer was still in the ground. I don’t go to matches very often but I have never really felt very comfortable with it. There are strong arguments for both sides and I agree that we should move on. But I do not think that the chant will stop until an alternative is found.

I am not a linguist or a psychologist, but this is a powerful chant on two pitches. This simple sound structure will be very hard to replace, like it or not it has become part of the match day ceremony or ritual for many. To find a word that can mimic this sound and have any meaning is going to be a very difficult. Chants have to come from the supporters or else they have no meaning and that is part of the problem. The closest thing that I can think of is the Icelandic thunderclap which intimidates the opposition and inspires their players. I doubt that we will ever be able to do that.

Eh. We're lucky we have more than one chant, and I doubt Oh When The Spurs or COYS is any less inspiring at full volume in a packed house, but I take your point re: familiarity. However, what's clear from the club's consultations is that enough of our own Jewish fans feel uncomfortable with the chant to highlight that it might not produce that feeling of increased wellbeing for them. And they are the people who matter at the end of the day.

To me, what sticks in my craw is that all this came from David Baddiel, a Chelsea fan eager to heap sh*t on us to protect the elements of his own fanbase and his own club. The man is an utter weasel, imo, and it annoys me that he'll claim victory for this so his own fans can keep hissing at Spurs while he smiles blithely.

But in the end it's about making our own Jewish fans feel safe, so what goes for them should go for us. And for us, it might be a good idea to think more about what makes a good chant for each of us. Take Oh When The Spurs, for example - -the slow opening bits always make my hair stand on end, but by the time it gets to the ever-faster cadence of 'Oh When The Spurs', it loses steam because it's too fast for a lot of folks to bother with. I've noticed this in Spurs pubs, in the stadium itself, and on TV, and I've always wondered if a slower chant might not keep the feeling in a lot longer. Even just slightly slower - YNWA does fine the way it is even though it speeds up in the repetitions.

To me, the best chants are slow, rhythmic, building in intensity until they reach a thunderous climax of 60,000 voices in unison producing a cauldron of noise that is recognisably 'Spurs'. But I recognize other folks might have different preferences.
 
Let’s be honest, the review was biased from the outset - it wanted to reach the conclusions it has. I find it all pretty sad. Trying to wipe away the history of the club. Also denying fans the anti-racist heritage that we could be proud of. Not to mention pre-badiel no one talked about this and fans who’d supported Spurs for a decade or more had no idea. The term was evolving to simply mean Spurs supporter - which is what it does mean. There are no examples of people using yid in anything but a reference to Spurs. Even the OED defined the term only as a Spurs Supporter.

Hmmm sad when everything has to be squeaky clean to avoid any association or history. What will be left if you make everything safe and sanitised?
 
Not a fan in the least of the provocative use of the Y word. I would condone it in response if idiot fans like Chelsea's or West Ham's were spouting anti-Semitic abuse.

But when rival fans aren't creating religious abuse - and surely most don't - then there's no reason to use it, to initiate it as a match day element. Nothing makes Spurs and their fans look like a small - and small-minded - club like the repeated use of this word in songs and chants, no matter how noble the purpose.

The league is now a worldwide phenomenon. When we drag religious overtones into telecasts it makes Spurs look as insignificant, tawdry and unappealing as Rangers or Celtic.

The standard retort is 'Look at how well Spurs are doing financially. The Y word hasn't hurt us in the least'. Well, we have about one third the social media followers of Arsenal and even less of Chelsea, Liverpool, United or City. No one invokes religious overtones into any major club in Europe.
Ajax?
 
We should substitute the Y word with another word that scans well in chants.

How about "rooster Army" in reference to our giant golden badger?
 
After reading the article I think that the club have handled it very well.
There were a couple of points that had me uneasy, but the clubs reasoning was sound and i support this wholeheartedly.
I just hope they follow through with idea of explaining why the word was adopted, for me that is the most important point.
That insults and slurs can be reclaimed, can be used as a unifying force and an educational tool.

I might not be Jewish, I'll never sing it or use the word but I'll always be proud to think of myself as part of the Yid Army.
 
After reading the article I think that the club have handled it very well.
There were a couple of points that had me uneasy, but the clubs reasoning was sound and i support this wholeheartedly.
I just hope they follow through with idea of explaining why the word was adopted, for me that is the most important point.
That insults and slurs can be reclaimed, can be used as a unifying force and an educational tool.

I might not be Jewish, I'll never sing it or use the word but I'll always be proud to think of myself as part of the Yid Army.

You're probably the only one who's read the report :)

The Trust could announce we have changed the informal term for Spurs supporters to YIID. Because two eyes can see better than one. And now the term should no longer be associated with an eastern European language by a so-called comedian who might have dressed up as a Rasta on national TV. Which is all okay...

hqdefault.jpg
 
You're probably the only one who's read the report :)

The Trust could announce we have changed the informal term for Spurs supporters to YIID. Because two eyes can see better than one. And now the term should no longer be associated with an eastern European language by a so-called comedian who might have dressed up as a Rasta on national TV. Which is all okay...

hqdefault.jpg


I know this will probably not go down well or come across properly, but I don't have a problem with people dressing up/blacking up as along as it isn't to mock or humiliate.
That picture looks like it does both though.
Not a fan of baddiel, and really don't like skinner mainly because his humour is to mock and humiliate.
 
You're probably the only one who's read the report :)

The Trust could announce we have changed the informal term for Spurs supporters to YIID. Because two eyes can see better than one. And now the term should no longer be associated with an eastern European language by a so-called comedian who might have dressed up as a Rasta on national TV. Which is all okay...

hqdefault.jpg

And of course

Yid-pic.jpg
 
His compaints about Spurs fans using the word is deflection to avoid criticism of of Chelsea fans. Don't expect him to be consistent.

It's annoying that he might take credit for his hyprocrital campaign, but I think it's time to move on. Times have changed and the chant is now a bit cringeworthy.
 
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