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The Price of Football

Look at what some of the **** at AFC gets paid

I know you are saying that in jest. But the fact is, generally they are worth it

Chamakh was one of those players on 50k at arsenal, as a senior squad member. Now that hes left for Palace, we can see that he is one of their better players. And teams in the bottom half of the table generally pay around 40-50k to their top players.
 
I know you are saying that in jest. But the fact is, generally they are worth it

Chamakh was one of those players on 50k at arsenal, as a senior squad member. Now that hes left for Palace, we can see that he is one of their better players. And teams in the bottom half of the table generally pay around 40-50k to their top players.

He's not worth that though. You have players twice as good playing for half of that in other leagues.

Arsenal put their kids on 40-50k a week as soon as they play a couple of league cup games. The market doesn't dictate that. They're not going anywhere, they're already under contract and even a modest increase would see them sign on for a few additional years. There's millions to be saved and utter flops like Frimpong and Bendtner would be much easier to move on.

These very average players that make up most of the bottom half teams aren't worth 30-40-50k a week. Overpaying them isn't helping anyone stay out of relegation trouble. A decent transfer strategy and more long term perspective will see clubs in a much better position than the current sack-hire-'spend lots of money replacing average players with other average players' cycle.
 
i'm fed up with this, it costs what it costs, if you think its too expensive don't go, if gates reduce enough ticket prices will follow

I'm with this. Nobody has a right to be able to attend football matches, if the clubs charge a fortune and people can't afford it then bad luck, that's life. I can't afford a Ferrari but I don't blame Ferrari for that.

The reality is that it's our supposed loyalty to clubs that keeps tickets high for lower leagues too. As someone said, Milwall is charging £25 a ticket and only filling half their stadium, but they must feel it's unlikely that they will increase their attendance by reducing prices because people won't suddenly switch teams.
 
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He's not worth that though. You have players twice as good playing for half of that in other leagues.

Arsenal put their kids on 40-50k a week as soon as they play a couple of league cup games.

Do you think Arsenal or Crystal Palace don't have a good knowledge of players globally? They've decided at the time that Chamakh was worth what they paid him. Who are all these players in other leagues that are twice as good and on half his wages? Lets not forget us and Liverpool were in for him before Arsenal got him. Chamakh was one of the leading strikers in Ligue 1. Theres only a select number of strikers worldwide with a CV like his.

And Arsenal do not put "their kids on 40-50k a week as soon as they play a couple of league cup games". That is simply false. And nothing like the truth.


The market doesn't dictate that. They're not going anywhere, they're already under contract and even a modest increase would see them sign on for a few additional years. There's millions to be saved and utter flops like Frimpong and Bendtner would be much easier to move on.

You would think a modest increase would work given that a lot of these guys still have 2 or more years left on their deals. But it appears that it wouldnt. Agents and players kick up a massive fuss if they are performing better than guys on much more money thatn them and either have a strop or demand a move. And so clubs usually conceed in this position. Look at guys like sterling and berahinho. Their agents have been creating all sorts of rumours once these guys started scoring some goals in the premier league.

I doubt frimpong was ever on a deal more than 10k at Arsenal. His Arsenal timeline would suggest that it would have been almost impossible for him to have received a senior deal.

And Bendtner is a different case. He was one of Birmingham's best players when he went on loan there as a teenager. Was also one of the most highly rated youth products at Arsenal. And was considered a wonderkid in his native Belgium from the ages of 15/16. The Secret Footballer even goes onto say that at a young age, Bendtner's career trajectory was no different to that of Zlatan. And by his early twenties, he was a senior Arsenal player. How many 20-23 year olds, can say they are a squad member for a genuine worldclass side? The ones that can say they are, are also on roughly 50k, when they sign their new deals. And he was so good that when he was moaning that he wasnt getting enough game time, teams like Dortmund were linked to him.

Bendtner is just a case of a player who "didnt come off". When you have a young player with the CV of a early 20's bendtner, you pay them this kind of money. ie. Nasri, Fabregas, Clichy, Walcott, Denilson, Oxlade Chamberlain, Wheelchair. Some go on to become first team regulars at Emirates Marketing Project, and others simply dont :)



These very average players that make up most of the bottom half teams aren't worth 30-40-50k a week. Overpaying them isn't helping anyone stay out of relegation trouble. A decent transfer strategy and more long term perspective will see clubs in a much better position than the current sack-hire-'spend lots of money replacing average players with other average players' cycle.

I agree that the current approach of rapid hiring and sacking is probably not efficient. But, i disagree that the players in the bottom half of the premier league arent worth roughly what they are getting paid. A lot those guys are foreign. And back in their respective nations, they are usually the best players. If you dont pay guys 30-50k regularly, you go the way of Blackpool, Wigan etc. This will no doubt happen to Burnley. Guys that are worth 30-50k simply wont come to those clubs. and you end up with a squad full of 10-20k players. And if you pit 30k players against 50k players, it doesnt take a genius to work out what the long term outcome will be
 
I'm with this. Nobody has a right to be able to attend football matches, if the clubs charge a fortune and people can't afford it then bad luck, that's life. I can't afford a Ferrari but I don't blame Ferrari for that.

The reality is that it's our supposed loyalty to clubs that keeps tickets high for lower leagues too. As someone said, Milwall is charging £25 a ticket and only filling half their stadium, but they must feel it's unlikely that they will increase their attendance by reducing prices because people won't suddenly switch teams.

Spot on.

People seem to be struggling to accept that attending football matches is now probably a luxury for most. There's absolutely nothing morally wrong with this at all either. It is what it is.
 
to go back to the lunch analogy that was replied to me earlier, its not a case of buying lunch somewhere else, its a case of not having to eat lunch every day, its ok to watch someone else eat lunch on the telly (not medical advice)

the lower league teams have a bigger question to answer here than the PL sides imo, yes City is more expensive than Dortmund, but there are league 1/2/skrill sides charging the same as Bundesliga sides for a far inferior product

i am in complete agreement with Neymar and Richie, going to a football match is entertainment, something you pay for, not a right

i saw a piece on the BBC the other day about a bloke who'd decided to go to rushden and diamonds instead of united and was waxing lyrical about how much money he was saving, it's not ****ing rocket science mate, if you stop shopping in ocado and raid the bargain bin in lidl you're gonna spend less, but when you get home you have a fridge full of crap
 
Now I've got a wife and kid, it's too expensive for me to go. Maybe every now and then I could afford it, but the last couple of times I went to the lane, the atmosphere was so bad I just didn't enjoy it. If the atmosphere is crap, and the ticket prices are high, then I might as well just stream it for free and stay at home.

Germany has it right in so many ways; safe standing that helkps the atmosphere, cheap tickets to look after the fans who are there whatever the results.

I kind of agree with the fella who said if you think it's too expensive, then don't go. It's not water or petrol or whatever, you can choose not to go. IMO, the atmosphere at English grounds will eventually become so bad that they will have no choice but to lower prices and get some younger blokes in there to liven things up.
 
to go back to the lunch analogy that was replied to me earlier, its not a case of buying lunch somewhere else, its a case of not having to eat lunch every day, its ok to watch someone else eat lunch on the telly (not medical advice)

I think a better lunch analogy would be someone complaining that Greggs is too expensive and should be forced to drop their prices because said person can't afford it every day. Its ok to eat at home (or bring a packed lunch, at which point the food/football analogy begins to break down)
 
I think the proper comparison would be a restaurant vs a pub or McDs. If one of the latter suddenly start increasing their prices, but are still serving the same crappy burgers, now prepared by overpaid, but still underskilled staff, it's equal to Millwall or Brentford charging £20 or £30 to watch a sub-standard game of football.

If you're a top restaurant with long waiting lines for a table, then you can probably get away with charging as much as you want. It's not fair to your loyal customers that have been coming around for years, even when you had that chef who couldn't really cook for ****, who can't afford to go anymore now that you finally got that Michelin star or suddenly became the trendiest place in town.

To further the analogy, Arsenal are like a one star restaurant who just don't try. It's all presentation and zero substance and they only really get their act together when it's time for the yearly review.
 
Savage says :

I understand after reading the BBC's Price of Football survey why there is concern over the rising cost of watching football in this country but, for most Premier League players, it is not something they are ever going to worry about.

To be completely honest, during my 20-year playing career, I never once thought about how much it was costing fans to go to games.

Other players might have been different, but I did not meet any.

I never discussed the issue with any of my team-mates at any of my clubs and, whoever I was playing for, ticket prices did not cross my mind once, let alone how much the pies or the programme were.

I cannot imagine things have changed much in the last few years.

Yes, someone like Everton forward Steven Naismith donates tickets to unemployed fans who cannot afford to go to Toffees games, but he must be in a tiny minority.

The truth is that most Premier League players live in a bubble. If you ask most of them what a ticket costs, they would not have a clue.
 
savage in fair point well made shock

we all live in bubbles, some float higher and farther from others though
 
By Gary Rowett, Burton Albion manager:

Ticket prices debate

There have been various comparisons made between the price of tickets in Sky Bet League Two and those at certain Premier League clubs, but it's not really a fair comparison to make.

If you've got a stadium that holds 55,000 and you're not doing so well I'm sure you can fill those seats right at the back of the stands with competitive pricing without massively affecting your revenue. But for a club in Sky Bet League Two that gets 3,000 fans, reducing the price of a ticket by £5 could mean you losing out on £15,000, which is a hell of a lot. Gate receipts are hugely important at our level.

At Burton, we're constantly using different initiatives to increase our fanbase, but ultimately you have to be competitive.

We've run 'kids for a quid' promotions a few time, and you hope that for the next game, even if it's only 10 or 20, some of those kids come and watch with their mums and dads at the normal price.

We try these initiatives but you can't do them all of the time, and if you start to reduce ticket prices you're probably going to be working with a smaller budget, therefore your team might not be as a strong. And the easiest way to increase your fanbase is to be successful on the pitch. It's not easy to find the right balance.

Balancing the books

Our chairman has run our club commercially very well. The car park can be half full when you drive in at 8 o'clock, and when we go for a team meeting in the afternoon we can struggle to find a free box from about 15 options because they're all filled with commercial activities going on.

Our chairman runs the club really well in that aspect so it's a business not just once every two weeks but every day.

However, making sure we're not spending beyond our means is still a massive part of my job.

When I took over as manager I took a blanket look at what we were spending on every single aspect, from the scouting to the playing budget, staff budget, travel arrangements, training kit, everything you could think of.

I looked at all of those costs and worked out how we could re-jig them, work them better, and get more out of all those aspects. That's why being a League Two manager is such a fantastic grounding for any young manager because you have to have an awareness of all those aspects.

Managers at the top level have got CEOs and directors of football that take care of most of that, which is no bad thing as it certainly helps managers to concentrate on the football team. But at our level it's a great thing to be responsible for because you can't make a decision without feeling some sort of connection to the club.

I'd like to bring in a couple of loan players to strengthen us at the moment, and it'd be very easy to do that as I've got lots of good options, but I haven't done so because it'd be expensive. So without even mentioning it to the chairman I've decided against doing certain deals.

I've never sat down with the chairman and asked him to obliterate the budget and push for promotion because I don't think that would be fair to do at a club like ours, and I also think it would be irresponsible management. I always look at the long-term future of the club, and I think that's what a manager should do.

Owner investment

There have been one or two clubs over the last few seasons even in Sky Bet League Two that have suddenly started bringing in a quality of player they weren't before.

You know it's not based on their gates because most of Sky Bet League Two apart from your big boys like Portsmouth couldn't sustain those sort of players' wages based on their match-day revenue.

But if a chairman wants to put their money in I think that's fantastic for the fans of the club. I would never complain about that.

However, it would make for a boring world if every single club invested massive amounts of money. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good thing if there wasn't a level playing field but I think it adds to the colour of the league that some clubs spend lots of money whereas others don't.

Some clubs get success on a shoestring, but some clubs don't get success by spending lots of money. In some ways that adds to the colour of the whole of the Football League and the Premier League because there's no guaranteed success unless you're spending hundreds of millions.

Even if you're not spending a lot of money, there's still an opportunity for a club to progress if you do things in the right way. You can risk the long-term safety of a club by investing heavily or you can try to progress in a long-term sustained way.

I can only use our club as an example but that's what we've tried to do, and Burton Albion certainly stands out as a reasonable beacon of success in the Football League.

Every club tries to be as ambitious as they can be.

Take Burnley as an example. Everybody knows Sean Dyche is working on a smaller budget than probably all of the other managers in the Premier League but you can still look at them and say what a fantastic job they're doing.

It's amazing how hard Sean must have worked to even prepare a team for a go in the Premier League.Just to have got there was amazing. So success can be achieved without spending massive sums of money.

Lucky omen

It might sound a bit bizarre coming from a football manager, but I'm massively into UFC at the moment; I love it.

We've been taking the players to the local Beyond Black Belt UFC gym since pre-season but missed it for three or four weeks in which time we didn't win a game so we took them last Thursday for the first time again.

I'm sure most sports scientists would question us doing a strength and conditioning session at a UFC gym on a Thursday before a Saturday game but it did the trick for us because we won 2-1 at Northampton to go level on points with Wycombe at the top of the table.

We've realised the UFC gym is our lucky omen.


http://www.teamtalk.com/news/30182/9518453/Gary-Rowett-Column-Tough-to-lower-prices
 
Shamelessly stolen from a gooner village:

You know what annoys me the most. The fact we ended our drought has been lost in this vapid, vacuous, vacuum of modern fandom where your **** is measured by how many signings the multimillion pound multi national corporation you support has made to its staff list. Fans these days are such ******* hypocrites, fawning over spending tonnes of money, crying when clubs up their ticket prices and pointing out to the world that bankrolled clubs are new money not to be trusted. Are you for real people? Fans around the world happy to laugh at arsenal when most of their teams have one **** all in the last three years.

I can't believe I have an interest in this sport at times, it's become ******* shameful. A total corporate wasteland of mindless zombies spending their hard earned cash to enjoy some sort of "1up" on their friends. Yes the principle hasn't changed, but the rampant short termism in football is reflective of the mindset of the average fan.
 
I think a better lunch analogy would be someone complaining that Greggs is too expensive and should be forced to drop their prices because said person can't afford it every day. Its ok to eat at home (or bring a packed lunch, at which point the food/football analogy begins to break down)
It's more like if Greggs was the only place you could get your lunch (you're allergic between the hours of 11 and 3 to everything other than steak bakes), but was so expensive you could no longer afford lunch at all, so just went without lunch to the point you just didn't think about lunch anymore (I kinda wish I'd never started us down this lunch route).

Going to a game at your chosen club is a big deal for a football fan, especially your first game, some people won't ever get to do that. Obviously it's true that that's life, tough ****, but it doesn't sit quite right with me, especially when we look to the continent and there they are doing it better and cheaper than us.
 
It's more like if Greggs was the only place you could get your lunch (you're allergic between the hours of 11 and 3 to everything other than steak bakes), but was so expensive you could no longer afford lunch at all, so just went without lunch to the point you just didn't think about lunch anymore (I kinda wish I'd never started us down this lunch route).

Going to a game at your chosen club is a big deal for a football fan, especially your first game, some people won't ever get to do that. Obviously it's true that that's life, tough ****, but it doesn't sit quite right with me, especially when we look to the continent and there they are doing it better and cheaper than us.

Not that I want to turn this in to a debate about the analogy, but thinking of it this way is part of the problem. Supporting a team is absolutely not like being allergic to other food. There's nothing stopping anyone from going to watch another team play, fans just choose not to because they only want to see a certain team. The analogy is someone having a loyalty to a certain outlet and refusing to eat anywhere else even though the other food is perfectly edible.
 
Spot on.

People seem to be struggling to accept that attending football matches is now probably a luxury for most. There's absolutely nothing morally wrong with this at all either. It is what it is.

Unfortunately I agree.
And it's a direct result of turning football into a business where sport is the product, rather than a sports club that is run along fundamental business lines ( stop it going under etc)

The fans are partly to blame - they want the best players and stadiums and these cost money. But when clubs do try to cut back fans will be the first to complain.

That said, the fans that do complain need to effect change - make it happen. You want lower prices? Boycoutt matches and hope everyone follows. Consistent low attendances will affect sponsors and, at some point, the club will have to act.

But be prepared for the club to decline or other fans to take your place.
It sucks,but that's the modern product that is football.
 
Unfortunately I agree.
And it's a direct result of turning football into a business where sport is the product, rather than a sports club that is run along fundamental business lines ( stop it going under etc)

The fans are partly to blame - they want the best players and stadiums and these cost money. But when clubs do try to cut back fans will be the first to complain.

That said, the fans that do complain need to effect change - make it happen. You want lower prices? Boycoutt matches and hope everyone follows. Consistent low attendances will affect sponsors and, at some point, the club will have to act.

But be prepared for the club to decline or other fans to take your place.
It sucks,but that's the modern product that is football.

And complain about buying expensive players. Demand the club by cheaper players on lower wages so they can lower ticket prices. If fans are not doing this, they can hardly complain about prices. It's not as if clubs are making huge profits. The exceptions would be clubs like United where the "profit" is going to the Glazers (indirectly).
 
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