Suddenly, second place doesn't look like such a moonshot

[greatwhitenorf]

Thanks, only.

And so, the media bare their sharp talons and wicked beaks and begin to view City the way Alfred Hitchckock
viewed Tippi Hedren. Here's Guardian columnist Paul Doyle's lead 'graph on a story on City after their loss to Southampton:

Failure on this scale implicates everyone at Emirates Marketing Project. After that it is just a question of degree. Does most of the blame for this sorry nonperformance and the seeming disintegration of City's Premier League title defence lie with the players, the manager or the owners? Or should they share it equally?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/feb/10/roberto-mancini-manchester-city-southampton

 

[milo]

I suppose what prompted me to put up the OP is that the media are about to begin picking apart City. They've failed to defend their title and in humiliaiting fashion, showing none of the hunger that spurred them on in the closing stages last season. United look very comfortable to win the league and Paddy Power has already offered punters early paydays for those who bet United to win.

Mancini is as good as gone, a proverbial dead man walking. Not a good situation to keep a high-priced, talented and underachieving team motivated. They've already flopped badly in two CL appearances. The whole Balotelli soap opera left a bad taste. There's some very unhappy chappies who came to City thinking they'd hit the big time only to be forced into a secondary role, i.e. Richards, Lescott, you could even argue Nasri. Self interest is about to take hold there and it will do nothing for their competitiveness.

Chelsea will have the Spanish Waiter Inquisition to deal with. I can't say the media will do us all sorts of favours because this is a club steeped in controversy and they rode it to lift the European Cup. But they had something to play for and sacrifice for. Now, they have no chance at the title, out of CL, the fiasco of trying to paddle-shock Torres' withering talent into life, financial fair play regs that will be their undoing because they can't build a proper stadium to help cook the books. The graceless handling of Lampard, another year of decline for Terry and Cech looking mortal amidst a softening backline. Lke us, they also have to play Europa League. It won't be a pleasure. It will be a chore, one performed begrudgingly. Still, they have little to compel them to play at the top of their game.

Say what you want about our last 10 games, but we've won six drawn four and kept five clean sheets. We've won some very ugly victories. But we've shown enough character to get it done. Although we've lost one of the best DMs in the league, we're still tough to score on. Our defence is getting healthier and more comfortable with Lloris. Holtby is beginning to emerge as a great playmaker and goal threat. You have to wonder if this is what we hoped Sigurdsson would become early on. Maybe this will be what brings out the best in him. We should have all our striking options back before the NLD. Having finally opened this season, are we beginning to see the benefits of our new training centre?

We've had to come through an early season baptism of fire in the media. AVB got hammered. There was all sorts of scurrilous coverage over Modric's antics and eventual departure, as well as VDV's exit. There was the Lloris-Friedel situation. The fabricated stories of player dissension over AVB's tactics.

Spurs players have heard and seen it all and have continued to battle through it as a well-knit group. We've got a mentally hardened team as a result of this process and the progress they've made is significant. When you see Chelsea and City throwing away games late on or losing to far lesser clubs, it's a big hint that their players aren't in a good frame of mind. I look at Arsenal and see a very beatable side. Soft as a grape at the back, with Sagna likely to put self-preservation ahead of club succes as he is leaving after the season. Jack Wheelchair is looking a very tender boy. Walcott has the constitution of a lightbulb. Diaby is hailed a medical marvel if he plays three games in a row. Czszsnszny hardly inspires confidence.

I think Liverpool are in a good frame of mind and capable of rising in the talbe. Not so sure about Everton, who will be undermined by the speculation that will grow about where Fellaini will be off to. Both sides lack the depth to overcome any injuries.

The fans of other clubs that I chat with are envious. Spurs don't have to be sensational to finish above fourth. Just keep going the way they are and let human nature and the media run their courses with the other teams.

Great post

 

[Armchair Expert]

The problem that we have more so than Chelsea and City is that our squad looks paper thin.

Recently people have criticised Dembele's contribution - but we are a Dembele injury away from having a central midfield of Parker and Livermore

Likewise, if Bale was to get injured, whilst we do have replacements, it would be hard to see us continuing to win back to back games.

If everyone stays fit we have a fighting chance of fourth; although i don't know if it comes from the experience of being a Spurs fan, but things never quite seem to go for us. We always watch other fans celebrating against us and wonder what it must be like for us to finally be the ones to get ahead.

With this in mind i have a sneaking suspicion that we'll pick up a grand total of 1 point from the Everton, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea games; namely at home to Everton. I hope not, but it just seems that disaster is inevitable somehow. If we do lose those games then a 6th or 7th place finish is more than conceivable.

I'd say 7th is more likely than 2nd.

 

[SteveAWOL]

This is like the Mind The Gap thread last year. If I din't know better I would think someone was trolling.

We will have done VERY well to finish 4th come May. 3rd is possible BUT ONLY if Rafa continues to blow hot and cold (not down to us really) but very unlikely.

2nd ...... not even worth considering. Audere est facere and it is better to dream and all that but get a grip please. One of those threads that will come back to bite us on our arses.

This.

...
Say what you want about our last 10 games, but we've won six drawn four and kept five clean sheets. We've won some very ugly victories. But we've shown enough character to get it done.
...

Yes we have gone 10 league games unbeaten but it has been on the back of a relatively easy run of fixtures that included 6 of the bottom 8 teams in the league. If we can manage to remain unbeaten over the next 10 fixtures, in which we'll face 6 of the top 8 clubs, then I might share your optimism...

The problem that we have more so than Chelsea and City is that our squad looks paper thin.

Recently people have criticised Dembele's contribution - but we are a Dembele injury away from having a central midfield of Parker and Livermore

Likewise, if Bale was to get injured, whilst we do have replacements, it would be hard to see us continuing to win back to back games.

...

Yup, look at how poor our results were when Dembele was injured and that was when we still had Sandro! If either Lennon or Bale gets a knock then we have no quality wingers to cover for either of them.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Once again, I stress that this isn't about us being superhuman or sensational. It's about City dropping and the media brickstorm that is about to envelop them. Look at today's papers and the howling has begun. There's the Guardian link above. The Telly says Mancini is about to 'wield the axe'. Alan Hansen piles on as well. It will worsen and it will affect them.

I spent the weekend in various conversations with football-loving friends as we watched the games unfold. It would seem just about every other club we're battling with for the top four is facing the same sort ifs, buts, candy and nuts speculation over their squad's health and depth that others are posting here. It's that time of year. Wear and tear begin to take a toll. Today's news features Arsenal's Vermaelen needing anti-inflammatory injections on the bad ankle that's plagued him all season.

Where we are deep is at the back. Solid in goal. Seven healthy, tested and familiar defenders to rotate through, eight if Kaboul comes back. No other club has our strength of options at the back. When you're tough to score on, you're tough to beat. You can handwring and worry all you want about the rest of the squad. At least our potential call-ups have seen a decent amount of playing time earlier in the season. If Caulker and Naughton improved with more frequent run outs, whose to say Livermore wouldn't improve in similar fashion? Especially if opponents are facing similar attrition.

One other interesting development is the sudden rehabilitation of Gareth Bale's image. Two months ago he was the Welsh Hindenburg. Today he's riding tackles, staying on his feet and blasting in fabulous goals. Headlines, highlight reels and hearty Hola!s from Madrid. Just watchthe refs give him a little more protection in upcoming games.

Spurs aren't an island. They are an intriguing component in the Premier League, a league that wants to attract and retain the best players in the world. It also wants to maintain the four clubs it places in Champions League competition. The league is watching its wealthiest club falter and possibly drop out of CL qualification. They have to be concerned about which club(s) might be available to replace them. Given the relative success of our last CL experience, we're a side that would suit their purposes. Somewhere important, sometime soon, someone who matters will be having a word.

I'm not saying we should be going nuts and trumpeting about second place. We just have some good reasons to be optimistic. To be looking up instead of down.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Once again, I stress that this isn't about us being superhuman or sensational. It's about City dropping and the media brickstorm that is about to envelop them. Look at today's papers and the howling has begun. There's the Guardian link above. The Telly says Mancini is about to 'wield the axe'. Alan Hansen piles on as well. It will worsen and it will affect them.

I spent the weekend in various conversations with football-loving friends as we watched the games unfold. It would seem just about every other club we're battling with for the top four is facing the same sort ifs, buts, candy and nuts speculation over their squad's health and depth that others are posting here. It's that time of year. Wear and tear begin to take a toll. Today's news features Arsenal's Vermaelen needing anti-inflammatory injections on the bad ankle that's plagued him all season.

Where we are deep is at the back. Solid in goal. Seven healthy, tested and familiar defenders to rotate through, eight if Kaboul comes back. No other club has our strength of options at the back. When you're tough to score on, you're tough to beat. You can handwring and worry all you want about the rest of the squad. At least our potential call-ups have seen a decent amount of playing time earlier in the season. If Caulker and Naughton improved with more frequent run outs, whose to say Livermore wouldn't improve in similar fashion? Especially if opponents are facing similar attrition.

One other interesting development is the sudden rehabilitation of Gareth Bale's image. Two months ago he was the Welsh Hindenburg. Today he's riding tackles, staying on his feet and blasting in fabulous goals. Headlines, highlight reels and hearty Hola!s from Madrid. Just watchthe refs give him a little more protection in upcoming games.

Spurs aren't an island. They are an intriguing component in the Premier League, a league that wants to attract and retain the best players in the world. It also wants to maintain the four clubs it places in Champions League competition. The league is watching its wealthiest club falter and possibly drop out of CL qualification. They have to be concerned about which club(s) might be available to replace them. Given the relative success of our last CL experience, we're a side that would suit their purposes. Somewhere important, sometime soon, someone who matters will be having a word.

I'm not saying we should be going nuts and trumpeting about second place. We just have some good reasons to be optimistic. To be looking up instead of down.

Thats all well and good and very well put across, doesn't change the fact however that we wont amass enough points to overtake city. Livermore might be class if called upon; he might also be brick. We'll have a much better idea of where we're heading after the Arsenal and Liverpool games.

I really, REALLY hope i'm wrong but I have a feeling that its going to look a lot more difficult heading into the last 6 or seven games.

 

[Fuego]

I suppose what prompted me to put up the OP is that the media are about to begin picking apart City.

Chelsea will have the Spanish Waiter Inquisition to deal with.

City: When Kompany is missing, that team is not Emirates Marketing Project. When Kompany is there, they win games regardless of how badly they play. This is nothing new. Emirates Marketing Project have been playing badly all season, the media have been waiting for them to lose so they can mention all those things, but they missed the most important point that is, Emirates Marketing Project can be playing as well as they did for parts of last season but forget how to play when Kompany is missing. If Kompany missed the rest of the season, I'd be sure Emirates Marketing Project would crumble, but as soon as Kompany comes back, they'll carry on like they have been for the rest of this season, mediocre by their standards at best, but winning most games. If anything, City could get much better when Kompany comes back if Silva and Toure find their form. No clue what's happening with Tevez at the moment either.

Also note: Southampton have been playing extremely well since the managerial change. (They got better results before the change, but their playing style has been insane since the change.) Everton, Man United and Emirates Marketing Project have had insanely tough games against them. Swansea and Soton are clubs on the rise and we have to play them both. Southampton winning was fairly predictable given Kompany was missing and Soton played almost a European style of football that City have struggled with.


Chelsea: From title contenders under Di Matteo and being branded as "unstoppable", Chelsea appointed Rafa and their title challenge ended in the media that day. This is just a case of us hoping Rafa fudges it up for them more than anything else. The fans make their home games harder than their away games at the moment.




2nd isn't out of reach, but it's something everyone can hope for without expecting at all, a nice little bonus... Third is something to be disappointed about if we don't get it, that's the real target. We all know how important Fourth is and how much of a disaster it is to finish lower than that, even if our start of the season expectations were a year of transition while Chelsea go from 6th to 3rd after buying Hazard, Oscar, etc.

The only strange things are, City have weakened, then haven't played anywhere near their best and Chelsea have fudged up their best start to a season in years and despite all their money spent haven't been able to cruise into the top 4.

The thing that scares me slightly is, City will spend big next year to compensate for this year (if things go how they're going... League gone, CL gone in group stage again)... Chelsea will spend if they only scrape CL positions (new striker and spending to get closer to the top rather than risk missing out of CL and not competing for title...) Both of those clubs will probably have new managers too.

So we'll see if FFP makes them hold back at all.... Arsenal will probably spend, even if they did spend 10 million euros in January. If they miss out on CL football, they won't be able to spend much though... Everton can't really spend, unless they sell someone and use that money... They might be able to spend 10-15 million if not, at most.

Liverpool, Swansea and other wildcards for next season are far less predictable.


But the important thing is the summer. We will have to see what City and Chelsea do, who they get to manage them and everything else... Man United usually buy one player, even if they already spent a lot of money on a kid... The Fergy effect means they'll always compete for the title, even if they have a team of 11 year old girls.

So what do we do? If we get CL football, we have to spend, we still have a lot of money from this summer, we will have CL money next season, this is our chance.


Man United, Chelsea and City should be way way way out of reach of Arsenal, Everton, etc... So next transfer window might see a gap being bought. 3rd and 5th might be miles apart... We can fight to create a big 4 that stays the same 4 clubs for 3-4 years.... But if we fall back, if Arsenal get the CL spot this season and spend instead of us, bringing in David Villa, a few other high quality players, we might get left behind again and be fighting for 5th for 3 years, by which time the money would have created a chasm.



2nd would be great, but 3rd would mean we can buy players before our CL qualifier (which we aren't 100% to win either)... More tv money due to the way CL money works would be nice too. 2nd and 3rd are real prizes, not just 4th. The money gap between 4th and 2nd can be huge (depending how far you go in the CL), so by all means aim high, just don't lose 4th.

 

[Spur of the moment]

City: When Kompany is missing, that team is not Emirates Marketing Project. When Kompany is there, they win games regardless of how badly they play. This is nothing new. Emirates Marketing Project have been playing badly all season, the media have been waiting for them to lose so they can mention all those things, but they missed the most important point that is, Emirates Marketing Project can be playing as well as they did for parts of last season but forget how to play when Kompany is missing. If Kompany missed the rest of the season, I'd be sure Emirates Marketing Project would crumble, but as soon as Kompany comes back, they'll carry on like they have been for the rest of this season, mediocre by their standards at best, but winning most games. If anything, City could get much better when Kompany comes back if Silva and Toure find their form. No clue what's happening with Tevez at the moment either.

Also note: Southampton have been playing extremely well since the managerial change. (They got better results before the change, but their playing style has been insane since the change.) Everton, Man United and Emirates Marketing Project have had insanely tough games against them. Swansea and Soton are clubs on the rise and we have to play them both. Southampton winning was fairly predictable given Kompany was missing and Soton played almost a European style of football that City have struggled with.


Chelsea: From title contenders under Di Matteo and being branded as "unstoppable", Chelsea appointed Rafa and their title challenge ended in the media that day. This is just a case of us hoping Rafa fudges it up for them more than anything else. The fans make their home games harder than their away games at the moment.




2nd isn't out of reach, but it's something everyone can hope for without expecting at all, a nice little bonus... Third is something to be disappointed about if we don't get it, that's the real target. We all know how important Fourth is and how much of a disaster it is to finish lower than that, even if our start of the season expectations were a year of transition while Chelsea go from 6th to 3rd after buying Hazard, Oscar, etc.

The only strange things are, City have weakened, then haven't played anywhere near their best and Chelsea have fudged up their best start to a season in years and despite all their money spent haven't been able to cruise into the top 4.

The thing that scares me slightly is, City will spend big next year to compensate for this year (if things go how they're going... League gone, CL gone in group stage again)... Chelsea will spend if they only scrape CL positions (new striker and spending to get closer to the top rather than risk missing out of CL and not competing for title...) Both of those clubs will probably have new managers too.

So we'll see if FFP makes them hold back at all.... Arsenal will probably spend, even if they did spend 10 million euros in January. If they miss out on CL football, they won't be able to spend much though... Everton can't really spend, unless they sell someone and use that money... They might be able to spend 10-15 million if not, at most.

Liverpool, Swansea and other wildcards for next season are far less predictable.


But the important thing is the summer. We will have to see what City and Chelsea do, who they get to manage them and everything else... Man United usually buy one player, even if they already spent a lot of money on a kid... The Fergy effect means they'll always compete for the title, even if they have a team of 11 year old girls.

So what do we do? If we get CL football, we have to spend, we still have a lot of money from this summer, we will have CL money next season, this is our chance.


Man United, Chelsea and City should be way way way out of reach of Arsenal, Everton, etc... So next transfer window might see a gap being bought. 3rd and 5th might be miles apart... We can fight to create a big 4 that stays the same 4 clubs for 3-4 years.... But if we fall back, if Arsenal get the CL spot this season and spend instead of us, bringing in David Villa, a few other high quality players, we might get left behind again and be fighting for 5th for 3 years, by which time the money would have created a chasm.



2nd would be great, but 3rd would mean we can buy players before our CL qualifier (which we aren't 100% to win either)... More tv money due to the way CL money works would be nice too. 2nd and 3rd are real prizes, not just 4th. The money gap between 4th and 2nd can be huge (depending how far you go in the CL), so by all means aim high, just don't lose 4th.

Assume you are referring to the Modric money. What makes you so sure Daniel hasn't earmarked it for the new stadium or simply to keep club debts under control. Remember we are paying much higher wages without the extra income from CL or a decent run in the domestic cups.

 

[markysimmo]

Im sure Emirates Marketing Project will spend another £200m they dont earn in the summer, throw silly money at Jose and even sillier money at Falcao and Ronaldo no doubt

 

[jts1882]

... lots of good points ...

Kompany is important to them and so is Yaya. With him returning they could get better.

On the financial front, Arsenal are a lot closer to the top three than us. Their bridging period is over now the Highbury development is largely finished and sold. I can't help thinking that Wenger has bought into his own PR and won't spend because he thinks he doesn't need to. Unless there is some secret problem, they should be able to spend more.

 

[skyfarer]

It's possible that Arsenal's major shareholders are just pocketing the extra money themselves. It's unlikely they can genuinely outcompete Chelsea and the Manchester clubs to the title unless FFP genuinely has some teeth (which I doubt), but with Wenger there they'll nearly always finish in the moneyed CL positions, make big money from their superstars, and sell out their stadium with their purported attractive football, despite the grumblings of the fans. The extra 100m they might have to spend per year to consistently overcome the oil trillionaires just isn't worth it to them, maybe, when you think they could make so much more every year with the status quo.

True, Liverpool and us are there so it's a bit risky, but they only need to invest a net 10m in the first team to outspend us tbh :lol:

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Arsenal will probably adapt their spending when they have to. Like when the new stadium is built at WHL, or even get to wait a few years while we pay off early debts.

But, saying this quietly and amongst friends, what a year this could be to kick off stadium construction.

 

[SWP29]

Good thread, great talk on here.

I suppose what prompted me to put up the OP is that the media are about to begin picking apart City. They've failed to defend their title and in humiliaiting fashion, showing none of the hunger that spurred them on in the closing stages last season. United look very comfortable to win the league and Paddy Power has already offered punters early paydays for those who bet United to win.

Mancini is as good as gone, a proverbial dead man walking. Not a good situation to keep a high-priced, talented and underachieving team motivated. They've already flopped badly in two CL appearances. The whole Balotelli soap opera left a bad taste. There's some very unhappy chappies who came to City thinking they'd hit the big time only to be forced into a secondary role, i.e. Richards, Lescott, you could even argue Nasri. Self interest is about to take hold there and it will do nothing for their competitiveness.

So your argument is based on conjecture and speculation? Sure, our performances have been pathetic on the most part, and we only seem to play well when teams let us. But to say you might get second because of the expected media assassination is VERY optimistic. Do you remember when we lost at the Emirates last season? Balotelli was sent off, we didn't have a shot on target and we were 100% hopeless. The 'Mancini Out' campaign in the media had never been so rigorous. It's still not as bad as that this time round. All the columnists led with the 'overpaid mercenaries' line (I know what you think, stay with me), and our squad was picked apart. We were told why we'd lost the league, with our squad compared to United's and told where we fall short. We were told it's the manager. What happened next, I don't need to go into details, but yeah. The 'picking apart' which you mention actually had us play much better. We scored (off the top of my head) 18 in the last 6 games and turned a miserable season into our best ever.

I'm not saying the same will happen this season. Only a complete idiot/optimist (one and the same?) will. But bear in mind that we've been here before, and we didn't exactly collapse like you anticipate.

Some inaccuracies in your post, too. Micah Richards hasn't been in a "secondary role", and neither has Nasri. Micah has been injured, and Nasri has just been invisible for most of the time. The Balotelli soap opera did not leave a bad taste among the fans. Many were indifferent towards him leaving, but appreciate his contribution on the pitch. You'd be surprise how many points he won us.

I am 80% sure that Mancini will stay until the end of the season at least. What will sacking him now achieve? We're different to other clubs in the way we will support the manager as long as he's in charge. The fans, that is. How the new board executives see his work can only be guessed at, though I hope they're patient.

Kompany is important to them and so is Yaya. With him returning they could get better.

Could go either way. If he plays better than the first half of the season than yeah. If he plays equal to or worse than that, Yaya will be a hindrance. Judging by the Southampton match, it looks like being the latter unfortunately. Kompany's return can only be a good thing, though.

Im sure Emirates Marketing Project will spend another £200m they dont earn in the summer, throw silly money at Jose and even sillier money at Falcao and Ronaldo no doubt

I'm just quoting this one because it made me laugh.

 

[stinkfoot]

Kompany is important to them and so is Yaya. With him returning they could get better.

On the financial front, Arsenal are a lot closer to the top three than us. Their bridging period is over now the Highbury development is largely finished and sold. I can't help thinking that Wenger has bought into his own PR and won't spend because he thinks he doesn't need to. Unless there is some secret problem, they should be able to spend more.

It's a moot point where this season is concerned though. It's our squad now versus their squad now and I think our squad has better players playing better than them. I fully expect us to finish above Arsenal.

fudge what happened last season and fudge historical finishing places.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Bingohhhhhhh!!!!

 

[greatwhitenorf]

right

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Good thread, great talk on here..

Thank you. Glad you could join us.

[/QUOTE]So your argument is based on conjecture and speculation? Sure, our performances have been pathetic on the most part, and we only seem to play well when teams let us. But to say you might get second because of the expected media assassination is VERY optimistic. Do you remember when we lost at the Emirates last season? Balotelli was sent off, we didn't have a shot on target and we were 100% hopeless. The 'Mancini Out' campaign in the media had never been so rigorous. It's still not as bad as that this time round. All the columnists led with the 'overpaid mercenaries' line (I know what you think, stay with me), and our squad was picked apart. We were told why we'd lost the league, with our squad compared to United's and told where we fall short. We were told it's the manager. What happened next, I don't need to go into details, but yeah. The 'picking apart' which you mention actually had us play much better. We scored (off the top of my head) 18 in the last 6 games and turned a miserable season into our best ever.[/QUOTE]

The difference this year would be, you had something to play for last season. That something, it always stayed within reach. It kept the players focused and willing to put themselves second, the cause first. They kept believeing and stayed motivated. A similar attitude prevailed at Chelsea in CL play.

As has been liberally ladled out here already, this is a different scenario. The players have got their trophy and filled their wallets. Job done. Now they've got an even bigger gap to close, with a much more chastened, motivated ManU side ahead of them. That's going to be a far more difficult task, if not impossible.

It's hard to say whether City's players want to endure the sour situation that will linger after this season. A lot of players will receive, and give consideration to, offers from other clubs in strong positions with other leagues. Others definitely will be moved on, rumours beginning about who will replace them. All these possibilties will fester from now until May. It's not a healthy environment for winning football. It's not remotely similar to what sustained City through their push to the title.

Already Mancini is uttering strong statements about his team, about who will get axed if they fail to perform to standards in the closing stages. I don't think threatening this very secure group is a productive approach. But I'm not sure anyone knows what is.
It's a big machine that needs everything working in sync to stay aloft and we've seen how challenging that is prior to the title-winning season.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not a City basher. I'm OK with Mancini. I enjoyed the final day.

 

[Fuego]

Assume you are referring to the Modric money. What makes you so sure Daniel hasn't earmarked it for the new stadium or simply to keep club debts under control. Remember we are paying much higher wages without the extra income from CL or a decent run in the domestic cups.

We agreed a club record fee in the summer with Porto, so that money could have been spent... I doubt he'd refuse to spend it after going so close. We've been squirreling money away for a while, so that money being kept back for some reason is possible. That said, the Premier League money (and CL money) will both have a huge boost... (This year's CL money gets the boost, but we're not in it this year...)

(Just to compare it to how it is now:

Sorry for the Arsenal focused picture.)

New stadium - we've learned from Arsenal, paying for your own stadium is a bad idea.

Debt - We have very low debt compared to other clubs.

(2011)

Higher wages - I can't find this year's wages anywhere, they must be out there somewhere. Without a solid figure, it's not possible to guess what ours are atm, we've trimmed the squad but new contracts and such make for a horrible guessing game. We're still way


We only posted a tiny loss this year considering the huge loss of the CL money. Even if our squirreled away money ended up getting burned up coping with the loss of that money, we have sold a lot of players in the last couple of years. Last year's sales should have offset a huge chunk of the CL money lost and would have reduced wages significantly. (As I said though, there's no way to guess what our current wages are. Modric is off the wage bill, Ade is on it, plenty of players have new contracts.)


Looking at last year's dealings:

Players we paid money for:

Yago Falqué
Scott Parker

Players we got money for:

Jamie O'Hara
Paul-José Mpoku
Robbie Keane
Alan Hutton
Peter Crouch
Wilson Palacios
Roman Pavlyuchenko


I can't remember the exact figures for each deal (not that I ever had confirmed accurate figures anyway), but that should have been 30 million or so to offset against the loss of the CL money. (A few other people went too, for example, Woodgate disappearing from the wage bill would have lowered it.)

Then again this year sales continue:



Niko Kranjcar
Vedran Corluka
Ben Alnwick
Steven Pienaar
Sebastien Bassong
Luka Modric
David Button
Rafael Van der Vaart
Giovani Dos Santos
Jermaine Jenas

Don't get me wrong, we did buy people too:

Gylfi Sigurdsson
Jan Vertonghen
Emmanuel Adebayor
Moussa Dembele
Hugo Lloris
Clint Dempsey
Ezekiel Fryers
Lewis Holtby


As far as other people disappearing from the wage bill go, Nelson, Saha and Cudicini are all gone. On loan we have:

Heurelho Gomes
Danny Rose
Iago Falque
Andros Townsend
Bongani Khumalo
Ryan Mason
Adam Smith
Simon Dawkins
Alex Pritchard
Jordan Archer

Ok, so most of those aren't on notable wages... But Gomes is on huge money (for us).



Wages from previous years:

(2011) Wages compared to other clubs:

Our wages should be fairly controlled. So many players aren't on the books anymore, we should be nowhere near Man United, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool for wages. Everton do amazing things with a low wage budget, Swansea have done great things too. We generally get a huge amount of bang for our buck.



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It's only at this point that I realize how much I've derailed this thread.

Here are the last images that I wanted to use:

Our profit trend from the last few years, last year's isn't on here though.

A comparision with some of our rivals from last season with their 2011 figures.

This is the club's shareholder update: http://m.tottenhamhotspur.com/mobile/News/news-article.page?ref=shareholder-update-220113

These are shirt sponsorship and kit supplier comparisions. (Apologies for one of these being Arsenal focused again but Man United's deal wasn't on the Spurs one... Sunderland's deal is on neither.)

(Combined, sorry for the Dortmund focus.)



In an attempt to be somewhat on topic, here are the CL Europa League figures from 2012. (Sorry for the Arsenal focused picture.)

CL prize money is going to get a 22% increase.

My point about the league position having an effect on the CL money is due to the way the TV pool is split.

Looking at the season we were in the CL:

We got a lower share of the TV pool than Arsenal despite going further than them in the competition is because we finished 4th the season we qualified for the CL.

The TV pool was worked out like this:

So if we did finish 2nd instead of 4th, we would significantly increase our CL money. The difference would pay for a LLoris/Dembele.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Nice job compiling this. In many ways, these figures work well to illustrate what a moonshot second place normally is for us and what a great opportunity this season offers.

 

[Naughton16]

According to the figures I've seen for this season, Arsenals wage bill is £143m to our £91m. A difference which is almost equivalent to the Everton or Saudi Sportswashing Machine wage bill.