Hashegotthesackyet?
Alan Hutton
Did Aurier use the word "Bumder", as I've not seen what was allegedly said.
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Serge Aurier
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
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Did Aurier use the word "Bumder", as I've not seen what was allegedly said.
DevonSpur
David Bentley
No, he used the French word "fiotte", which has seemingly been mistranslated and has got him branded as a homophobe. These posts are from pages 1 & 2 of this thread:
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
If I use the word faggot am I a homophobe?
I collect faggots for the fire, and some people even eat faggot! It's also a pejorative term not necessarily used as a homophobic slur. I think we're far too judgemental. Personally I will judge Aurier on his conduct and shock horror, footballing ability, with us. I know if someone went through my behaviour at 24 there were things you could call me up on. And I would guess that if you went through the histories of those criticising him on here with a fine tooth comb you'd also find a misplaced term, and probably much more.
Imo you give people a chance and don't condemn those who don't fit your personal comfort zone. Otherwise anyone who'd made a mistake in life would be ostracised and excluded. That's not the sort of club I wish to support either.
I collect faggots for the fire, and some people even eat faggot! It's also a pejorative term not necessarily used as a homophobic slur. I think we're far too judgemental. Personally I will judge Aurier on his conduct and shock horror, footballing ability, with us. I know if someone went through my behaviour at 24 there were things you could call me up on. And I would guess that if you went through the histories of those criticising him on here with a fine tooth comb you'd also find a misplaced term, and probably much more.
Imo you give people a chance and don't condemn those who don't fit your personal comfort zone. Otherwise anyone who'd made a mistake in life would be ostracised and excluded. That's not the sort of club I wish to support either.
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There is clearly no equivalence.
The point I am making is that I would rather Spurs did not sign a homophone to improve the side. I want Spurs to have higher standards than any other club and to reflect my own views
Clubs like Chelsea and Liverpool are less concerned about the behaviour of their players as long as they are winning football matches (see Suarez, Terry, Alonso, Salah, etc)
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
We have tended to be (lily) white and I appreciate that. We can walk taller than the arse who have a shady history for example. But would you want the club to exclude people that haven't had a perfect upbringing and middle class education, who can't make a mistake in life? A team full of sanitised media experts with a perfect image fills me with more dread personally. Its also slander to call someone a homophobe when its not conclusive that he is. One could question that in itself if we're being PC.
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DevonSpur
David Bentley
I don't want anyone at the club that is like that either. What I don't understand, though, is that you are continuing with the 'Aurier is a homophobe' theme when it's been clearly pointed out that he was actually saying that Blanc and his team-mates had no balls, no bottle.
milo
Jack L. Jones
What's been pointed out is that the word has more than one meaning not what he intended when he said it.
Sure. Diversity is great. The difference between the early lives of Lloris and Wanyama could not be more different. And it reflects well on Spurs.
What I don't like and what I don't want is hate. And I see hate from Aurier. I am completely satisfied that his comments were intended to be homophobic.
The test is not whether Aurier meant his comments to be homophobic, it is whether others reasonably perceived them as homophobic.
Many people did. He is guilty.
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DevonSpur
David Bentley
OK, fair enough. The reason why I have kept on banging the drum is I thought it was innocent unless proven guilty, not until.
Anyway, I'll put the drum away now!
milo
Jack L. Jones
OK, fair enough. The reason why I have kept on banging the drum is I thought it was innocent unless proven guilty, not until.
Anyway, I'll put the drum away now!
I agree. I think that we shouldn't ignore what he said or hammer him for it.
I'd hope that he and the club are aware of how this can be viewed and that he does work with LGBT fan groups if he arrives.
DevonSpur
David Bentley
100%.
I'd be sure that everyone involved with this potential transfer at THFC would have done their homework thoroughly and looked at his past actions before going any further, given the importance of team harmony, etc. and I very much doubt that if he was as objectionable as he is being painted (by some) then we wouldn't touch him with a bargepole.
The question is not whether he is a good footballer or he will disrupt the dressing room or whether he is objectionable.
The question is whether the club should employ someone who has publically committed a hate crime. (because that is what is, albeit at the lower end of the scale).
I had hoped that Spurs are different from the rest of the football world on this issue. But I guess they are not.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
I like your sentiments. Hate is a bad thing. But respectfully, I'd suggest that you are imposing a narrative onto someone here. You see hate from Aurier, I don't without more evidence. It is far too strong a condemnation and maybe you imposing your own agenda onto another. I would hate to live in a world where justice is apportioned not by your actions but by how people perceive you. If being gay was perceived as a crime by people would that mean gay people are guilty? Peoples perceptions are probably the worst thing to use as a judgement of others. As mentioned many words have more than one meaning, his intent is crucial to making any judgement.
demotw
Nicola Berti
Seriously pages of people not listening to what has been explained and continuing on their bandwagon, when in fact they are the ones guilty of persecuting someone without all the facts. Surely would be better to have the full story, picture first.
As for Aurier, looks like a good RB - as to the rest, will wait till I know the background before judging him on that.
As for Aurier, looks like a good RB - as to the rest, will wait till I know the background before judging him on that.
DevonSpur
David Bentley
That is your opinion, not fact. Dangerous to get them confused.
If you live in the UK, you already do live in this World. The law is very clear on this matter. There is much case law about this. The test is not what he intended but how others perceived it and whether that perception was reasonable.
As for my agenda, I am not sure what it is, other than a hope for Spurs to have higher standards any other club.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
p.s. the above not withstanding, it is important that @JPBB and others make a big thing out of this. It is important that even potential discrimination is highlighted and shouted about. Otherwise people don't know how serious an issue it is, or even the impact of their own language.
To many faggot is a relatively innocent term. To someone who's been on the receiving end of discrimination I'm sure it is not. So Auriers flippant comments and people making a big thing out of them, should bring the Spurs family closer. Hopefully as Milo says, Aurier will grow up and show he's not homophobic. We have to give people a chance.
To many faggot is a relatively innocent term. To someone who's been on the receiving end of discrimination I'm sure it is not. So Auriers flippant comments and people making a big thing out of them, should bring the Spurs family closer. Hopefully as Milo says, Aurier will grow up and show he's not homophobic. We have to give people a chance.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
The perception bit is overruled by the reasonable bit. Thankfully. What is reasonable is paramount, over and above perception.
It's interesting to have this discussion. But I will bow out now.
Glenda's Legs
Les Ferdinand
It seems that I started all this off yesterday
I voiced concerns/reservations about what he supposedly said (based on what I had read elsewhere, rather than any detailed knowledge of the French language). There is clearly an alternative translation, as posted by @Daisuk, which makes this all a storm in a teacup if that translation is true, in which case a disservice has been done to Aurier (at least as far as homophobic comments are concerned. He still should not have slagged off his manager/team mates in such a public forum but that is another issue and hopefully a mistake that won't be repeated).If in the UK he did a live interview and called someone a faggot, in English, then he would be rightly condemned for using that kind of language;
If in the UK he did a live interview and called someone a softie/pussy/wimp, in English, then apart from the inappropriateness of making any such comment, no one would care about the actual words.
The point is that we here - unless fluent french speakers - cannot know for sure what he said/intended, may therefore be wrong to perceive it as hateful/homophobic, and therefore can't apply UK law to it.
I hate social media and the pontificating that comes off of the back of something like this - he didn't abuse someone for being gay he took a swipe at the people running French football (unless I'm missing something?) - at worst he has been a bit stupid using a word that has negative connotations but it's a world away from actual homophobia
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