Richarlison

[Bishop]

Your talents are clearly wasted on a forum.

Was I wrong?

Had you never watched him before? If you had you would have the same expectations unless a player signing for Spurs deludes you from their actual abilities?

I used to be the mem multi screen football nerd. PL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and even the occasional Argentine Premiera and Brazilian Seria A along with the Libartadores. I've watched a LOT of football in my time.

 

[Bishop]

Before Ange, not after.

I'd say De Zerbi is the type of guy we should have gone for directly after Poch if we are analysing correctly, but yes I agree De Zerbi would have ultimately been a better hire than Ange although I respect the attempt with Ange. It was a ballsy move and if the man would have only just adapted to the calibre of player he had here his term may well have worked out better in the long run.

I don't think hiring Ange was a mistake per se, I'd say just like with Jose and Conte hiring him and then either having no intention of supporting them properly or understanding what they would need to be successful was the biggest issue. So as usual it comes down to the larger structure and the leadership (or lack of) methodology.

 

[tommysvr]

Was I wrong?

Had you never watched him before? If you had you would have the same expectations unless a player signing for Spurs deludes you from their actual abilities?

I used to be the mem multi screen football nerd. PL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and even the occasional Argentine Premiera and Brazilian Seria A along with the Libartadores. I've watched a LOT of football in my time.

I thought he was a decent but not remarkable signing. But there's many players I've been very excited to have sign only to be let down, and many who've not been interested in that have surprised me. I think all signings are such a toss up, and even more so when you've so often been the 5th or 6th best team trying to break into the top 2 or 3, so I choose not to ride the waves of transfers too much personally.

All power to people like you who have the knowledge and time/resources to watch players that closely before they come to Spurs (that might sound sarcastic, it's not meant that way.)

 

[robp135]

And we dont!

We have given 3x £200k contracts in the past year.

 

[SteveAWOL]

We have given 3x £200k contracts in the past year.

Would’ve proved better value to pay Kane £400k per week… if only he didn’t insist upon wanting to win league titles instead of battling relegation!

 

[Bishop]

We have given 3x £200k contracts in the past year.

£200K isn't what it once was. The proven elites are once again in double that.

 

[thfcsteff]

It wouldn't be replicated across a season because we haven't played a breadth of teams, the sample size is too small. You're doing that getting carried away thing again.

No.
You wish.
You're doing that 'zero to 60' thing again.
I mentioned a potential 'if' with a potential result: the only fact there is that the run of games we've had with DeZerbi place us on top 3 form. The rest is conjecture which might, or might not, be accurate. We'll never know will we!

De Zerbi is though the kind of manager we should have got in after Ange. I'll never change my opinion Ange needed to be fired, hiring poorly doesn't mean that the first action wasn't correct.

...yet you cannot stop mentioning his name. I didn't. You did. I actually don't care what you thought about him at this point because it means nothing. What means something is the fact that the bloke we got in was mediocrity personified in a manager, right down to talking about 'losing games' and we're 'not really a CL side'. Expectations set indeed. And a huge part of why we're here.

De Zerbi is exactly what we needed post Ange, more pragmatic but still with attacking intentions that suit the squad reasonably well and an understanding that a competent defence actually does matter and will save you more points than you lose.

Wasn't the knock on the previous guy that he would 'sort out the defence'? DeZerbi is a smart manager who knows that to get the best out of players you have to use them in their best lights and also make them feel a million bucks. I am delighted he has kept his powder dry too (he has proved me wrong with that).

 

[Mikey10]

I think the dilemma with Richi has always been whether he's a striker

I think that’s got a pretty simple answer tbh.

 

[harr1984]

I think that’s got a pretty simple answer tbh.

I love Richi - his application and effort, even his goalscoring when he gets going. But he isn't reliable enough to stay fit, doesn't have the technique or physicality to be our main CF.

Would love for him to stick around as backup as I think he's better at scoring than Solanke but doubt he would want that. Best if we part ways after he's scored a hat trick against his old club to hopefully keep us up...

 

[Bishop]

No.
You wish.
You're doing that 'zero to 60' thing again.
I mentioned a potential 'if' with a potential result: the only fact there is that the run of games we've had with DeZerbi place us on top 3 form. The rest is conjecture which might, or might not, be accurate. We'll never know will we!

Seems an irrelevant statement, 5 games is proof of nothing either way it's just wishful thinking to think otherwise. Likewise if we had poor results in those 5 games I wouldn't extrapolate that as relegation form either.

The season is 38 games long, 5 games doesn't tell you anything useful about the length of an entire season. Rating what De Zerbi has done so far is perfect somehow extrapolating that to an entire season is a bit silly imo.

...yet you cannot stop mentioning his name. I didn't. You did. I actually don't care what you thought about him at this point because it means nothing. What means something is the fact that the bloke we got in was mediocrity personified in a manager, right down to talking about 'losing games' and we're 'not really a CL side'. Expectations set indeed. And a huge part of why we're here.

I don't really get you here, I didn't complain about you mentioning Ange? Nor have I ever told you to stop talking about him? He's as relevant to the conversation as Frank and Jose and Conte and to a lesser extent Poch. Obviously the further in time you go the less relevant each person is.

Wasn't the knock on the previous guy that he would 'sort out the defence'? DeZerbi is a smart manager who knows that to get the best out of players you have to use them in their best lights and also make them feel a million bucks. I am delighted he has kept his powder dry too (he has proved me wrong with that).

Again I'm not sure your point. Frank may have tried to sort out the defense and failed to do so. Wanting to do something and actually achieving it are two different things. Ange wanted to suffocate the opposition and rain goals down upon them but that didn't quite happen either.

Plans are just that, plans. What actually matters is implementation and effectiveness. De Zerbi is showing the effectiveness of having a balanced approach, it might be too late and we'll see what happens but I'll always think the balanced approach is the correct way to go in football unless you're overpowered offensively in terms of quality like say a Barcelona of the last 2 seasons and even then it's not quite worked out for them at the final stage of the absolutely toughest games.

 

[thfcsteff]

Seems an irrelevant statement, 5 games is proof of nothing either way it's just wishful thinking to think otherwise. Likewise if we had poor results in those 5 games I wouldn't extrapolate that as relegation form either.

The season is 38 games long, 5 games doesn't tell you anything useful about the length of an entire season. Rating what De Zerbi has done so far is perfect somehow extrapolating that to an entire season is a bit silly imo.

I don't really get you here, I didn't complain about you mentioning Ange? Nor have I ever told you to stop talking about him? He's as relevant to the conversation as Frank and Jose and Conte and to a lesser extent Poch. Obviously the further in time you go the less relevant each person is.

Again I'm not sure your point. Frank may have tried to sort out the defense and failed to do so. Wanting to do something and actually achieving it are two different things. Ange wanted to suffocate the opposition and rain goals down upon them but that didn't quite happen either.

Plans are just that, plans. What actually matters is implementation and effectiveness. De Zerbi is showing the effectiveness of having a balanced approach, it might be too late and we'll see what happens but I'll always think the balanced approach is the correct way to go in football unless you're overpowered offensively in terms of quality like say a Barcelona of the last 2 seasons and even then it's not quite worked out for them at the final stage of the absolutely toughest games.

OK mate. All good.

 

[parj]

Nah, not sure Solanke is more prolific than Richi to be fair. I just think Richi has always done most of his best work from the left even if he's selected as the nine. Neither is prolific. Harry was prolific. Nailed on. Sonny could be prolific at times, but seemed to score his goals in batches.

The assist observation I find interesting. Harry's best output was 14 league assists in a season that he got 23 goals in. That then started reducing drastically over 3 or 4 years. In that final season where he got 30 goals he only contributed 3 assists. Just shows how subtle this stuff is. It's all about how you set things up. When Ange first moved to our club, Harry had just left. We scored a couple more goals as a team in Ange's first season but it wasn't based on Solanke assuming Kane's role. It was based on goals coming from everywhere, with the trade off that all 10 outfielders had to bust a gut. Interesting change from building things around a world class striker.

The dilemma for RDZ is how you build it when you haven't got that quality to call upon and your most creative players like Madds, Kulu and Kudus aren't starters. If you don't have assists then you definitely don't have goals right? If you don't have passers then you don't have assisters then you don't get goals. It's a journey that hopefully RDZ will get us through in the next phase.

It's why these manager earn the big bucks.

I think we somehow have to find a good striker that will come to us. But it cannot be Richy or Solanke as number 1 striker. I would sell both. Solanke not very good in the air as a plan B.

 

[thfcsteff]

Rating what De Zerbi has done so far is perfect somehow extrapolating that to an entire season is a bit silly imo.


Again I'm not sure your point. Frank may have tried to sort out the defense and failed to do so. Wanting to do something and actually achieving it are two different things.

Plans are just that, plans. What actually matters is implementation and effectiveness.

I've skipped the rest of what you said because, well, there's little point as I agree with most of it and you seemingly think I don't; all good, not important.

However I'd be interested in you clarifying what you meant with that first sentence above, and with regards to the last two. Postecoglu made two plans based on injuries in his last 6 months, make sure we were safe from the drop and put all resource into winning the Europa League. A plan which was implemented with great effectiveness. Fact!

 

[Bishop]

I've skipped the rest of what you said because, well, there's little point as I agree with most of it and you seemingly think I don't; all good, not important.

However I'd be interested in you clarifying what you meant with that first sentence above, and with regards to the last two. Postecoglu made two plans based on injuries in his last 6 months, make sure we were safe from the drop and put all resource into winning the Europa League. A plan which was implemented with great effectiveness. Fact!

So let's say Frank had the intention of fixing the defence, that may well have been his plan and even what he was working on but he was unsuccessful in doing it. I don't think that would mean he didn't have a plan, moreso that he wasn't effective at executing it.

My comment re Ange was the same in terms of his primary plan of out scoring the opposition and bludgeoning them into submission (a plan I do like, my favourite tbh) but likewise he wasn't able to actually make that work.

So for me I was never one of those he claimed they couldn't understand what Ange or Frank were trying to do as I felt I did, I just felt they were ineffective at achieving their goals.