Repetitive bickering and point scoring about money and our transfer policy

[Kingdawson]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

The club's financial reports.

the clubs financial report says we've got little money to spend next season? show me.

Funny that when the clubs financial reports was showing we were making a profit...we still didn't spend. CL qualification and guess what...we still didn't spend again.

 

[P.D.]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Yeah - the way our wagebill exploded under Redknapp means we don't have the funds for the £15m transfer fees any more because all our income is already tied up.

The tv money won't make a slightest bit of difference IMO as everyone will just know to inflate their prices by about 25% when an EPL club becomes interested.

But we can clear a lot of the books as well:

Parker - 50K
Gallas - 60K
Bentley - 50K
Friedel - 30K
Gomes - 40K
Adebayor - 90K

That's over 300k a week or £15m a season right there if my guesses are correct. Granted we would need to bring in some replacements but can probably get them in on cheaper wages and we'd only need a new striker and goalie for that. Maybe a midfielder but Holtby may step up to fill the void.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Was the training ground and NDP land grab financed from borrowings or did a part of it come from operating profits?

 

[Spursalot]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

the clubs financial report says we've got little money to spend next season? show me.

Funny that when the clubs financial reports was showing we were making a profit...we still didn't spend. CL qualification and guess what...we still didn't spend again.

It said we didn't have any money to spend after last season, and unless you can point out something that makes you think we've suddenly come into a heap of cash, then this seasons financial report will be similar.


How do you know we didn't spend? I would call £45m or so on a new training ground spending quite well really.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

the clubs financial report says we've got little money to spend next season? show me.

Funny that when the clubs financial reports was showing we were making a profit...we still didn't spend. CL qualification and guess what...we still didn't spend again.

We've spent probably £120 million on the new training ground and the NDP over the past three years or so.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

It said we didn't have any money to spend after last season, and unless you can point out something that makes you think we've suddenly come into a heap of cash, then this seasons financial report will be similar.


How do you know we didn't spend? I would call £45m or so on a new training ground spending quite well really.

i've never seen this.

If we really did sacrifice 2 seasons of champions league football, as well as not solidify our position when we did manage to make the CL, in order to save up for a training ground then our priorities are fudged up.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Was the training ground and NDP land grab financed from borrowings or did a part of it come from operating profits?

We must have spent £120 million or so thus far on our capital projects. £15 million was raised by a share placement. And we have loans and overdraft to the tune of £85 million.

So it's possible that £20 million + has been found from revenue.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

the clubs financial report says we've got little money to spend next season? show me.

Funny that when the clubs financial reports was showing we were making a profit...we still didn't spend. CL qualification and guess what...we still didn't spend again.

None of us can know for certain just what the financial situation is right now, the released reports will obviously be a year behind, but when they consistently show us not making a profit after player trading I think pointing to them as the best available evidence is about as good as it gets.

What has been clear from the financial reports is that we haven't put any money away, we've continuously spent the money that was available to us. The one time we made a major profit was when we sold Berba on deadline day, that money was then swiftly spent by Redknapp the following January.

The financial reports from the CL season showed us just about breaking even. Once again, we spent the money that was available to spend, not always straight away, but most of the time within a window or perhaps two.

If you disagree please show some financial reports that support your views.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

i've never seen this.

If we really did sacrifice 2 seasons of champions league football, as well as not solidify our position when we did manage to make the CL, in order to save up for a training ground then our priorities are fudged up.

A training ground that will help us get more out of our players and our youngsters is a valuable asset. It improves our chances of remaining a competitive club in the long term.


If you didn't even look at the most recent set of accounts you probably should before you try to start discussing finances.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

None of us can know for certain just what the financial situation is right now, the released reports will obviously be a year behind, but when they consistently show us not making a profit after player trading I think pointing to them as the best available evidence is about as good as it gets.

What has been clear from the financial reports is that we haven't put any money away, we've continuously spent the money that was available to us. The one time we made a major profit was when we sold Berba on deadline day, that money was then swiftly spent by Redknapp the following January.

The financial reports from the CL season showed us just about breaking even. Once again, we spent the money that was available to spend, not always straight away, but most of the time within a window or perhaps two.

If you disagree please show some financial reports that support your views.

There isn't any either way tbh (but spursalot says the financial report last year states we don't have money to spend so i could be wrong).

If we're so broke and are relying solely on player says to bring players in, how exactly did we bid 23m on Moutinho?

 

[P.D.]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

None of us can know for certain just what the financial situation is right now, the released reports will obviously be a year behind, but when they consistently show us not making a profit after player trading I think pointing to them as the best available evidence is about as good as it gets.

What has been clear from the financial reports is that we haven't put any money away, we've continuously spent the money that was available to us. The one time we made a major profit was when we sold Berba on deadline day, that money was then swiftly spent by Redknapp the following January.

The financial reports from the CL season showed us just about breaking even. Once again, we spent the money that was available to spend, not always straight away, but most of the time within a window or perhaps two.

If you disagree please show some financial reports that support your views.

A lot of the money spent though was on buying land and property for the NDP. I believe we have spent somewhere close to £100m on the land and property so far.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

The wage bill got bigger because our priorities as a club changed - not because of anything that Redknapp specifically did.

We have got to the point that progress for Spurs depends as much upon keeping our best players as it does on buying new players. And keeping our best players means offering them much higher wages.

There was a change under Redknapp towards signing older, more experienced, PL proven players on higher wages. Probably a necessary change, but one worth noticing and mentioning when talking about wages.

If we want to continue being somewhat active in the transfer market we must limit our wage budget to a percentage of our turnover similarly to what we've done in the past. Increasing the wage budget too much is very risky and could very easily lead us into a situation like the one Everton is in where they can only buy bargain players and can be forced into selling their best players with ever growing debts to accompany their struggles in the transfer market. And Everton are here far from a worst case scenario, probably mainly because of Moyes they've managed to live with their financial issues fairly well although they've never been able to progress.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

i've never seen this.

If we really did sacrifice 2 seasons of champions league football, as well as not solidify our position when we did manage to make the CL, in order to save up for a training ground then our priorities are fudged up.

It doesn't work like that.

Quite apart from anything else, the new training ground was always a long term project. You can't defer such a project forever on the basis that you might, just possibly, require extra funds in a year, or two years, to consolidate after a successful season. It would be impossible to plan for anything, ever, if that was your modus operandi.

Besides which, the training ground funding was ring fenced. It was paid for by bank loans.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

A training ground that will help us get more out of our players and our youngsters is a valuable asset. It improves our chances of remaining a competitive club in the long term.


If you didn't even look at the most recent set of accounts you probably should before you try to start discussing finances.

i've seen the financial report but i haven't seen what you stated ("we don't have any money to spend after last season"). Funny that we don't have no money but somehow come across 23m to buy Moutinho without selling anyone.

A training ground imo is overrated. Of course it's great to have a brilliant training ground but our previous one was very good. It's not as if we've replaced a brick training ground with an excellent one...besides signing a couple of good players that will solidify/improve our chances for the CL is far higher priority.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

There isn't any either way tbh (but spursalot says the financial report last year states we don't have money to spend so i could be wrong).

If we're so broke and are relying solely on player says to bring players in, how exactly did we bid 23m on Moutinho?

There are financial reports showing that we've spent the money that was available to us up until the point where the last financial reports were released. The exact details of how much was spent/earned last summer and what could be available now obviously isn't known.

No one is saying that we have no money, we have the extra tv-money coming in just for a start. We can make deals happen, I'm sure, quite possibly we were able to make £20m+ structured deals happen. Spending money then that wouldn't be available now.

Your claim was that we hadn't spent in the past, including our CL season. When I'm saying that we did spend the money that was available and with the history we have of doing that there's no real reason to think that we didn't/won't do the same again.

A lot of the money spent though was on buying land and property for the NDP. I believe we have spent somewhere close to £100m on the land and property so far.

Sure, like I said already a lot of our growing debts seems to be relate to the stadium project. The point is again that we're spending the money available to us, yes some of that might have gone towards the training ground and stadium. I'm not really interested in going into that whole prioritizing debate again as it's been done before, this is the transfer thread and what the club is actually doing seems pretty clear.

My point is just that as far as we can tell we've been spending the money that's been available to us, there's no real reason to believe that we have money saved away ready to spend come the summer.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

i've seen the financial report but i haven't seen what you stated ("we don't have any money to spend after last season"). Funny that we don't have no money but somehow come across 23m to buy Moutinho without selling anyone.

A training ground imo is overrated. Of course it's great to have a brilliant training ground but our previous one was very good. It's not as if we've replaced a brick training ground with an excellent one...besides signing a couple of good players that will solidify/improve our chances for the CL is far higher priority.

Quite glad that your not running the club. It's the same way teams try to get from the Championship to established into the Premiership. It's a tried and tested method that yields results.

Team gets a brick load of money from being in the premiership or champions league, team spends the money on it's infrastructure, say expanding the stadium, paying off debts or improving it's training ground and academy making the team that much stronger in the future. Financially and on the field.

It's business 101. Training grounds won't leave you and if built right we will have it fr many years. It's a safe investment, as opposed to buying players which is a gamble.



As far as i can recall Moutinho was canceled because the terms of the agreement were not satisfactory. Porto wanted us to pay more up front, which we could not afford to do, thus sustaining the ideal that we do not have the money available right at this moment.

You want to see a team who's financial report proves they have money to spend? Go look at Arsenals. Ours does nothing of the sort.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

There was a change under Redknapp towards signing older, more experienced, PL proven players on higher wages. Probably a necessary change, but one worth noticing and mentioning when talking about wages.

If we want to continue being somewhat active in the transfer market we must limit our wage budget to a percentage of our turnover similarly to what we've done in the past. Increasing the wage budget too much is very risky and could very easily lead us into a situation like the one Everton is in where they can only buy bargain players and can be forced into selling their best players with ever growing debts to accompany their struggles in the transfer market. And Everton are here far from a worst case scenario, probably mainly because of Moyes they've managed to live with their financial issues fairly well although they've never been able to progress.

Our wage to turnover ratio is fine at a little over 60%, as it is now. Remember that, throughout football, wages is the one cost that has consistently seen massive inflation over the past few years - so it is inevitable that it will account for a higher percentage of turnover than in the past. It's not a problem or a concern at the moment, though, because revenues are still increasing hugely, year on year (disregarding the intangible of qualifying, or not, for Champions League football). It means that all other costs account for an ever smaller percentage of turnover - which allows for a higher wage bill.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Braineclipse i don not believe we "don't have much money" and that the financial reports said "we didn't have any money to spend after last season".

People are directing me to the financial report but why should i believe a document that tells me "we don't have any money to spend after last season" when i saw us bid 23m on a player without relying on player sales. I firmly believe we have cash to spend.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

We must have spent £120 million or so thus far on our capital projects. £15 million was raised by a share placement. And we have loans and overdraft to the tune of £85 million.

So it's possible that £20 million + has been found from revenue.

Cheers Jimmy. Not as much as I had thought then.

 

[P.D.]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

And don't forget we were willing to pay Matas release clause of £24m the summer before and if some people believe anywhere between £10 and £20 for Leandro this January. We also bid for Oscar last summer for about £10 - £15m before Chelsea gazumped us.