Redknapp

[africanspurs]

Agreed 100%.
You HAVE to wonder WHY Pienaar was simply not used very much this winter, especially given the fact we could've done with him? and you're absolutely right, AC away was a fantastic tactical plan from Harry, and there we have in a nutshell the crux of the problem. He HAS the ability when he focusses, yet for some reason, he did NOT focus enough last season in the final few months. We know why. So does he. But he won't admit it. THAT is my MAJOR problem. IF he kept his eye on the ball and focussed a la AC away for an entire season, there is frankly no limit to what we could do (especially taking into account that not every match requires that level of tactical shuffle). But simply, the trust has gone.

at what point did the trust leave? better yet, at what point did it START to pack its bags?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

@MK

dude that is loooooooong. you must be a fast typer

EDIT:- Loyalist and rebel? why

this isnt Harry Redknapp FC

Precisely

 

[spasm]

And you prove my point completely. Either that or you don't understand history or the context in which the term arises. Let me clarify:

Those supporting someone in power = Loyalists
Those seeking to usurp = Rebels

fudging hell, do I really need to dish out history lessons on here too?

the force is strong with this one...fear leads to anger, anger leads to rage, rage leads to mistimed substitutions

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

This is not about what's best for Arry Redknapp - it's about what's best for Tottenham Hotspur and the club's future itself.

If someone doesn't want to offer him a new deal doesn't mean he's not a loyal Spurs suporter. Your choice of wording is bizarre to say the least and predictably polarising and borderline insulting.

This is a REDKNAPP thread.

I've said several times back him or sack him. Doing nothing, i.e. letting him go into a last year of his contract with nothing resolved, is the worst option of all.

Everyday Levy waits, the worse it's getting. I am 50/50 at the moment. For footballing reasons I'd like Redknapp to stay. He has had us playing some brilliant stuff and has us punching above our weight. For club reasons I think it's probably best he went. The fans are divided, the media is smelling blood and although I think it's a fudging crazy situation that we'd consider ditching him it could be best for all parties concerned if we did.

If Redknapp does go my only caveats are :

1) The new Manager MUST be given time and support from the fans, the board etc. It's entirely possible that a new manager may come in and we'll go backwards, and maybe not even finish top four for a few seasons. But let's give one a fudging chance eh? Not to mention let's show some loyalty for a change. We often look like a bunch of fudging hypocrits throwing our toys out of the pram when a successful player/manager wants to leave and yet we're more than keen to move on players/managers because we don't feel they can take us to the next level. Let's buck that trend, and make ourselves an honourable club in a dishonourable business.

2) If the new Manager flops, Levy must fall on his sword. So far he has been Mr Teflon but ultimately the buck stops at the top. If successive Managers/DoF's keep "failing" then the person making those appointments needs to go at some stage too. 10 years is long enough time to get it right.

 

[africanspurs]

red spots and hurts like hell when you pee...

O

LOL

with a name like spasms i have to ask how you know about these symptoms sooo vividly

 

[ArcspacE]

red spots and hurts like hell when you pee...

O

Best post in the last 10 pages

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

See there is a difference and it looks that way, it appears to me that they are some who are suggesting that those who want Redknapp to go are not real Spurs supporters, and those that want him to stay are. It would be a good idea if they could come out and say that my impressions are wrong or right.

Who? I haven't seen ONE person suggest that.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Originally I agreed with you on this and couldn't find a reason to say 'not neccesarily, there's no reason why he'd fudge off' but after thinking about it, I realised something.

For AVB to have been a definite success that we would hate to lose, and to have him poached by much bigger clubs, he would have to have us challenging for titles on a consistent basis. If he acheives that, he is going to be our Wenger, Fergie etc. He will then be managing a top club in one of the top leagues in the world. Where does he go from there? If we are title challengers, he won't go to our nearest competitors because there would be no point. He won't go down. The only place he might go is Barca or Madrid and even then, I'm not sure would, if he had us up there as title challengers. I wouldn't have seen Fergie going there 15 years ago. Any player would have course, but I think it's ever so slightly different for a manager.

So if he is a success, I think he will have made us a bigger pull to actually make him stay. If he fails, we lose no sleep over losing him. If he maintains, then we are where we are with Rednkapp, still looking for that manager that can give us that little bit extra to compete with clubs with better finances.

Which would never happen. The first title challenge we mount, our Manager will be poached. AND, it would take an exceptional Manager to have us challenging for a title. If Mourinho (who I rate as the best in the world) was in charge of us last season I am confident we'd have finished 3rd. But we wouldn't have finished no higher and had Chelsea performed like they should have, we would have finished 4th.

 

[parklane1]

Who? I haven't seen ONE person suggest that.

Its just not that clear to me and why i asked for clarification, we are all Spurs supporters and we all want what is best for our club, we may disagree but that does not mean that some are better then others.

Its just that there seems to be some who think that because they want different to others they are not true supporters, i am happy that that is not the case and hopfully it will end the personal abuse.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Which would never happen. The first title challenge we mount, our Manager will be poached. AND, it would take an exceptional Manager to have us challenging for a title. If Mourinho (who I rate as the best in the world) was in charge of us last season I am confident we'd have finished 3rd. But we wouldn't have finished no higher and had Chelsea performed like they should have, we would have finished 4th.

Fair enough, but this is the point where we will disagree (and I shall agree to do so :-D ) in that I think maybe there is a chance of us competing with the Manchesters and Chelsea if we get someone in with radical new methods of playing that haven't been figured out by our competitors yet.

I think if Harry was Emirates Marketing Project manager, they would have absolutely walked the league, no question. But that's because he is the type of manager to get performances out of the players to the level which you would expect. So you won't underacheive with him trying something different, but if you're looking to progress even further beyond your station, he's probably not the man to do it, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Or to put it this way, if every single thing that had ever been and ever will be discovered about the game of football was known and analysed to perfection by every manager in the league, it would come down to who had the best players, because everything would be levelled out. And therefore you'd want Redknapp managing your side.

But because that isn't the case, because tactical systems have a point where they are new, and haven't been figured out, and are at the early stage of their 'life cycle', you can get players to perform above their station and get results that weren't expected of them. That's what gives Swansea hope. That's what made Lambert so good for Norwich. His way of approaching games was hard to combat because nobody really does it like he does.

If we are to progress now, we need that overperformance. We could try and maintain, but then we risk slipping further away as the clubs with more money get their act together. It could be argued that to keep up, we need someone with a new way of thinking in order to steal a march on everyone else.

Then hopefully, when the tactic has been figured out, we will have improved to an extent that we also have one of the best sqauds, and so our subsequent higher position can be maintained.

 

[AdamB]

2) If the new Manager flops, Levy must fall on his sword. So far he has been Mr Teflon but ultimately the buck stops at the top. If successive Managers/DoF's keep "failing" then the person making those appointments needs to go at some stage too. 10 years is long enough time to get it right.

You do realise that Levy part owns the club dont you? He wouldnt resign and he's not simply an employee who can be fired for underperforming.

Ultimately if Joe Lewis doesnt think that Levy is doing his job then he could buy Levy out and replace him with someone else however, by and large, Levy has done a great job at Spurs so its highly unlikely

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Its just not that clear to me and why i asked for clarification, we are all Spurs supporters and we all want what is best for our club, we may disagree but that does not mean that some are better then others.

Its just that there seems to be some who think that because they want different to others they are not true supporters, i am happy that that is not the case and hopfully it will end the personal abuse.

I haven't seen a single Harry Loyalist accuse a Harry Rebel of not being loyal to Spurs. I have though, seen the reverse with a post stating that anyone who wants Redknapp to stay isn't a Spurs supporter because he isn't good for Spurs and therefore pro-Harry fans don't want what is best for Spurs.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

You do realise that Levy part owns the club dont you? He wouldnt resign and he's not simply an employee who can be fired for underperforming.

Ultimately if Joe Lewis doesnt think that Levy is doing his job then he could buy Levy out and replace him with someone else however, by and large, Levy has done a great job at Spurs so its highly unlikely

Of course I do, but falling on the sword means stepping down as Chairman and letting someone else make the executive decisions.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Of course I do, but falling on the sword means stepping down as Chairman and letting someone else make the executive decisions.

Why would he be seen as failing in this regard though? Because he hasn't got a manager that has stayed for 10 years plus? In that sense only Kenwright, Dein and whoever was in charge of United when Fergie came down can claim to have been successful.

I think sometimes a manager can be right for a certain period of time and then be wrong at another time, but it doesn't mean he was wrong to begin with. It just means it was time for a change. I'd say Redknapp was the right appointment, but if he moved on now it wouldn't mean Levy failed by appointing him in the first place.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Why would he be seen as failing in this regard though? Because he hasn't got a manager that has stayed for 10 years plus? In that sense only Kenwright, Dein and whoever was in charge of United when Fergie came down can claim to have been successful.

I think sometimes a manager can be right for a certain period of time and then be wrong at another time, but it doesn't mean he was wrong to begin with. It just means it was time for a change. I'd say Redknapp was the right appointment, but if he moved on now it wouldn't mean Levy failed by appointing him in the first place.

His own criteria. Basically if a Manager keeps failing in his eyes, then it means two things :

1) He keeps hiring the wrong Manager
2) His expectations of what a Manager can achieve, in the timeframes he gives them, at the club are completely unrealistic.

Either way, the buck stops at the top.

 

[parklane1]

I haven't seen a single Harry Loyalist accuse a Harry Rebel of not being loyal to Spurs. I have though, seen the reverse with a post stating that anyone who wants Redknapp to stay isn't a Spurs supporter because he isn't good for Spurs and therefore pro-Harry fans don't want what is best for Spurs.

Really, well i am not trawling through the thousand of posts on Redknapp so i guess i will just have to take your word on that.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

I'm not sure if the Harry interview has been posted but here it is for those that have not seen it .

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/7796613/Redknapp-wants-future-sorted

I also agree with this :

http://www.thedaisycutter.co.uk/2012/06/harry-redknapps-comments-were-scandalous-a-spurs-fan-speaks/

Keith Burkinshaw has been mentioned in previous posts , if only .

I just don't feel, Harry conducts himself like how I feel a manager of our club or an employee of any football club for that matter should do.

 

[harr1984]

One of the big differences is people's expectations on here. Some think top 4 is bare minimum we should achieve and therefore Redknapp hasn't really done anything of particular note. Whereas others see coming top 4 as a good achievement ahead of more established teams and therefore thinking Redknapp has done a good job. Even for those thinking top 4 is bare minimum this is only the case because Harry has had us consistently up there challenging. Whether he stays or goes I'm grateful for his time here and hope this is resolved ASAP whether it be with a contract extension or parting of company. But if Levy does want rid he better get a move on because with Rogers and Lambert gone there aren't many viable potential suitors left....

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Really, well i am not trawling through the thousand of posts on Redknapp so i guess i will just have to take your word on that.

Yep really. It wasn't a regular. It was one of these strange posters that signs up and only posts 10 or so messages to back someone up in an argument.

I'm taking a new lighthearted approach to the whole thing anything. I've realised it's pointless trying to debate against people who are,

a) Hypocrits, e.g. moan about one of our players or Managers talking to the press about potentially moving on whilst cheering an opposition player stating they want to sign for Spurs and coming out with nonsense like "Sign him up Levy!"

b) Emotional posters. I am here to discuss football, and discuss rational issues. It's pointless having a debate with someone who has an emotional reason backing their opinion as they simply won't be rational (that's not to say they're wrong though). E.g. I respect posters like bankrupt who clearly state they hate Redknapp as a person and that's why they don't want him at the club but there would be no point debating whether Redknapp should be our Manager with him as we're arguing apples and oranges. I'll happily debate with any poster who claims that Redknapp isn't doing a good enough job as Spurs manager and needs to be fired on a poor performance basis.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

One of the big differences is people's expectations on here. Some think top 4 is bare minimum we should achieve and therefore Redknapp hasn't really done anything of particular note. Whereas others see coming top 4 as a good achievement ahead of more established teams and therefore thinking Redknapp has done a good job. Even for those thinking top 4 is bare minimum this is only the case because Harry has had us consistently up there challenging. Whether he stays or goes I'm grateful for his time here and hope this is resolved ASAP whether it be with a contract extension or parting of company. But if Levy does want rid he better get a move on because with Rogers and Lambert gone there aren't many viable potential suitors left....

Pretty much nailed it with this post, especially the bolded part. But there are definitely posters who move the goalposts to suit their arguement. i.e. if the Manager was one they liked they'd be claiming 4th is a great achievement, but if the Manager is one they don't like they'll say 4th is a disaster. It's that lack of logic that infuriates me, but I am now going to rise above it.

My expectations for next year is top six. Regardless of the Manager. I do believe that in the logical natural order of things we should be battling for 6th with Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton, Villa and Leeds and with our fanbase being bigger than theirs we should be top of that pile. I think realistically next season City, Utd and Chelsea should be top three. Arsenal should be better than us, but it depends on their transfer activity and whether they have the same injury crisis as this season. Liverpool should be better than us but they do have some rebuilding to do and have a new Manager in. I think they'll run closer to us than this year, but it may be too soon for them to overhaul us.