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Preseason 2018

parklane1 said:
Fair enough i will take your word on that( as i have no time to search through posts) but if you have not there are others who have and its usually the same story we could have had him, or him,or him etc.

Its the same old story Levy should/could, have done this that and the other and its all gonads because i will say again no one knows the reasons we do what we do except Levy. If fans think Levy should spend more money, sign players earlier well that is there right of course, but when/if he does not all this flimflam about Levy playing games, not caring etc etc etc is rubbish BECAUSE no one here know the real reason.
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OK, no worries. To me (and I sound like a broken record) that its Levy's strategy - wait til the end in the expectation that prices will reduce and desperate buyers will pay up. To me its incredibly very high risk, though its obviously impossible to prove whether its successful or not
 
This is my guess for Saudi Sportswashing Machine away based on injuries, availability and fitness:

Loris
Kwp
Davies
Sanchez
Aurier
Amos
Dier
Moura
Lamela
Eriksen
Son

Think Dier will have to put in a shift at the weekend due to the injury ravaged CM position. CB is also a problem, I've got Davies in there with KWP at left back. Could be completely wrong but I don't see any of the guys arriving back on Monday starting apart from Hugo and the emergency use of Dier.
 
So we won this thing? Happy? Open top bus parade? Yay? No-one interested? :D

Given the competing teams we should be well pleased! Or can Inter still pip us?

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BrainOfLevy said:
I’ve asked the question on a few different forums - who should we sign? Who are we missing out on by going this slow? And I’ve heard that point - that fans don’t have a scouting network so why should they know. But we’re at a point now where anyone that improves our first 11 is probably going to be known. They aren’t going to come from out of nowhere. So who should it be? I’ve now heard Nainngolan, Pascal Gross, Cook, many others and all fine players but not obvious improvements. Once our injuries and WC players are back, we will look like we have the deep squad that we do.

The Fred example above - the point is that if we make a bid, and their agent knows that a club with more money than us has previously registered an interest, and they have a gap for that player in their first 11, the agent is going to alert that club. It will happen like clockwork, and we can’t compete with that if a rival can offer first 11 football and more money. We can compete with that if a rival can only offer money but not first 11 football because they’ve filled up in that position, so that’s when we make our move. It’s about being clever, patient, and being capable of understanding all of the moving parts. And it’s one of the reasons we have been able to consistently overachieve.

Levy deserves more trust, just like Poch does.
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How often do our strongest 11 play?

Sissoko playered in 41 games last year - he isn’t part of our first 11.
 
Legohamster said:
How often do our strongest 11 play?

Sissoko playered in 41 games last year - he isn’t part of our first 11.
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Sissoko did a good job. But I won’t get into that...

I really want to know who people think we should sign, and where the obvious gap is.

Lloris / Vorm / Gazzaniga is a great selection of goalkeepers.

Trippier and Aurier - one of the World Cup’s best right backs and a guy that has shown a lot of potential before, is a full international and has a full pre season behind him.

Right now, Toby, Jan, Sanchez, Foyth, 2CV. Not even including Dier. That’s a great selection of centre backs. Yes, if Toby goes we could do with a top class replacement. And in a year or two we’ll be saying the same about Jan. But Jan just had a season as one of the best in the League - he’s hit his prime in terms of consistency, and Sanchez will be a monster this year.

Rose and Davies - Great depth there with KWP to cover in a push. Would love to get Sessegnon in but wasn’t possible this summer. Davies has improved beyond average back up to one of the best in the league in his position.

Dier and Wanyama in defensive midfield, with Amos to cover if we need. Yes Wanyama has had his injuries but if this isn’t serious, we can’t just sign players because someone is injured, especially when Dier would expect to play most weeks anyway. If Wanyama can’t get over it - by all means let’s sign someone else.

Dembele / Winks / Sissoko / Onomah - probably the weakest part of the team and one where we need to improve - the box to box midfield position. It will depend a lot on Dembele having his best days behind him, but Winks is more than able back up, Sissoko has done a job when called and Onomah is begging for a chance in his proper position. Skipp coming through. Someone who can replace Dembele being a key signing, but Winks is more than able back up.

Eriksen / Dele / Moura / Son / Lamela / that’s good depth in attacking midfield. Eriksen and Lamela can play deeper and Son can play up top. A Martial or Pulisic to add depth here and also options to cover Kane would be fantastic, but tough deals to pull off for obvious reasons. If we can’t get someone who is a genuine difference maker, we’ve got a great 5 there who will all expect to play, and all push each other. N’Koudou to play in a stretch.

Kane - Llorente - one of the best in the world and a veteran tournament winner who is happy to be back up. Don’t think we can really do better here, short of getting Martial.

—-

So weighing it all up, I can see a Dembele replacement being the most important signing, and a Martial type being the second most. Grealish may come into the Dembele position but would probably be a bonus to those two. I will just trust that we’ll go for a Dembele replacement this week, and see if we can make Martial or otherwise happen.

A lot depends on Toby moving, which will probably kickstart a few other things (and may loosten United on Martial). But people are acting like we need a CB because Toby has gone, we need to replace Wanyama because he’ll never be fit again, we need to replace Winks because he’ll never be fit again, and oh look we’ve just lost 4-1 to Girona which obviously proves loads about our squad, and we should definitely start making long term decisions on the back of this one game.

We’re fine. We’re in serious need of one signing. We’re in fairly decent need of another. Grealish would be a nice addition and could help with both of those positions, but is hopefully a bonus. Let’s see what we can do this week.

Next summer I can see more serious surgery taking place. Toby will have been gone one way or the other, Jan will be another year older so we may decide to future proof him with a Sanchez esque signing or hope 2CV or Foyth have broken through. Rose may be gone and Sess may be more amenable to coming. And maybe Eriksen or Dele get a massive move and we need to replace them too. (Hope not but could happen then).

When there will be such obvious surgery required, I’d be worried if we leave it this late to do any of it...but now? We don’t need to waste cash on signing for signings sake. We’re in good shape. We might end the week with Kovacic, Grealish, De Ligt and Martial, but lose Toby and people will wonder what the fuss was about. Or we might end it with just Grealish and without losing anyone. Or we might sell Dembele and sign Grealish and Cook.

(Side note, I suspect Levy is playing poker with Toby in order to get Martial. He knows other clubs want Martial, so he’s probably telling United that they can have Toby if they do a straight swap, banking on the fact United didn’t mind dealing with Chelsea before. That way we don’t worry about getting gazumped, because United will know that they can’t get Toby without AM. But that requires one club blinking first, and it’s probably resting on United seeing if they can get Maguire or another. If they do, we need to move to other targets quick. But if they decide Toby is it, we could do seriously well out of the deal. If it goes to the wire and Martial’s gone elsewhere, we may well keep Toby, but I suspect those two players have been linked together, and that’s what a bit of the hold up on movement has been about (alongside early transfer window making English clubs worried about Europe).
 
The thing is, when is the last time our squad had so many players go deep into the World Cup? Injuries of course are another matter which is unfortunate, hopefully Lamela and the rest can bounce back quickly.
To me, it's really that simple.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Sissoko did a good job. But I won’t get into that... LOL

I really want to know who people think we should sign, and where the obvious gap is.

Lloris / Vorm / Gazzaniga is a great selection of goalkeepers - off topic, but I dont understand why we have three overseas keepers, doesn't help with the HG rule at all

Trippier and Aurier - one of the World Cup’s best right backs and a guy that has shown a lot of potential before, is a full international and has a full pre season behind him - Agreed - with KWP right back is not a area we need to worry about

Right now, Toby, Jan, Sanchez, Foyth, 2CV. Not even including Dier. That’s a great selection of centre backs. Yes, if Toby goes we could do with a top class replacement. And in a year or two we’ll be saying the same about Jan. But Jan just had a season as one of the best in the League - he’s hit his prime in terms of consistency, and Sanchez will be a monster this year. - Will Toby be here? Will he play - I would not sell him as I have said elsewhere take the hit and get another year out of him - but he may force the issue. That leaves Jan and Snachez - Foyth looks ok but hasnt been tested at PL level and I am not convinced by CCV - he looks like Caulker to me at the moment - Dier is not a CB - as with Jan at left back he can drop back - but that will leave us short in the CM.

Rose and Davies - Great depth there with KWP to cover in a push. Would love to get Sessegnon in but wasn’t possible this summer. Davies has improved beyond average back up to one of the best in the league in his position. - Rose's head was gone for large periods last season - how much will he realistic play and he has been told he can leave - Jan Can cover there - but then that leaves us short at CB

Dier and Wanyama in defensive midfield, with Amos to cover if we need. Yes Wanyama has had his injuries but if this isn’t serious, we can’t just sign players because someone is injured, especially when Dier would expect to play most weeks anyway. If Wanyama can’t get over it - by all means let’s sign someone else. - I hope I am wrong, but Wanyama looks unlikely to be back to his best for months, another injury on top of last seasons - Dier yes - but if he needs to drop back into CB we are short.

Dembele / Winks / Sissoko / Onomah - probably the weakest part of the team and one where we need to improve - the box to box midfield position. It will depend a lot on Dembele having his best days behind him, but Winks is more than able back up, Sissoko has done a job when called and Onomah is begging for a chance in his proper position. Skipp coming through. Someone who can replace Dembele being a key signing, but Winks is more than able back up. 100% agree we are very week here. Demeble been told he can leave and struggles with more than 1 game a week - Winks injured (when is he back?) Sissoko is at best average and Onomah has not shown anything to suggest he is a Top PL CM - Alli/Christian could drop back but that hurts us going forward.

Eriksen / Dele / Moura / Son / Lamela / that’s good depth in attacking midfield. Eriksen and Lamela can play deeper and Son can play up top. A Martial or Pulisic to add depth here and also options to cover Kane would be fantastic, but tough deals to pull off for obvious reasons. If we can’t get someone who is a genuine difference maker, we’ve got a great 5 there who will all expect to play, and all push each other. N’Koudou to play in a stretch. Clearly our strongest area - Minus Nkoudou - but if Alli or Christian have to drop back we maybe struggling - also if he is not on form we do struggle - understandable.

Kane - Llorente - one of the best in the world and a veteran tournament winner who is happy to be back up. Don’t think we can really do better here, short of getting Martial. Llorente is a massive let down, I dont think he even tries... We shouldnt buy another striker - Thats why I am on the Zaha/Martial train - means you have Harry/Lamela/Son - Maritial/Zaha that can play up top

—-

So weighing it all up, I can see a Dembele replacement being the most important signing, and a Martial type being the second most. Grealish may come into the Dembele position but would probably be a bonus to those two. I will just trust that we’ll go for a Dembele replacement this week, and see if we can make Martial or otherwise happen. - We desperately need a DM/CM the most important area on the pitch - We are so weak in this area - and whilst I am all for younger players being given a chance - Amos starting isnt a great way to start the season - we have needed some CM smarts in that are for a season or two anyway.

We are only a couple more injuries/transfers away from being in a dire situation there.

A lot depends on Toby moving, which will probably kickstart a few other things (and may loosten United on Martial). But people are acting like we need a CB because Toby has gone, we need to replace Wanyama because he’ll never be fit again, we need to replace Winks because he’ll never be fit again, and oh look we’ve just lost 4-1 to Girona which obviously proves loads about our squad, and we should definitely start making long term decisions on the back of this one game.

We’re fine. We’re in serious need of one signing. We’re in fairly decent need of another. Grealish would be a nice addition and could help with both of those positions, but is hopefully a bonus. Let’s see what we can do this week.

Next summer I can see more serious surgery taking place. Toby will have been gone one way or the other, Jan will be another year older so we may decide to future proof him with a Sanchez esque signing or hope 2CV or Foyth have broken through. Rose may be gone and Sess may be more amenable to coming. And maybe Eriksen or Dele get a massive move and we need to replace them too. (Hope not but could happen then).- CCV and Foyth need to be tested in the PL before being thrown in.

When there will be such obvious surgery required, I’d be worried if we leave it this late to do any of it...but now? We don’t need to waste cash on signing for signings sake. We’re in good shape. We might end the week with Kovacic, Grealish, De Ligt and Martial, but lose Toby and people will wonder what the fuss was about. Or we might end it with just Grealish and without losing anyone. Or we might sell Dembele and sign Grealish and Cook. - Cook over Grealish for me.

(Side note, I suspect Levy is playing poker with Toby in order to get Martial. He knows other clubs want Martial, so he’s probably telling United that they can have Toby if they do a straight swap, banking on the fact United didn’t mind dealing with Chelsea before. That way we don’t worry about getting gazumped, because United will know that they can’t get Toby without AM. But that requires one club blinking first, and it’s probably resting on United seeing if they can get Maguire or another. If they do, we need to move to other targets quick. But if they decide Toby is it, we could do seriously well out of the deal. If it goes to the wire and Martial’s gone elsewhere, we may well keep Toby, but I suspect those two players have been linked together, and that’s what a bit of the hold up on movement has been about (alongside early transfer window making English clubs worried about Europe).


We are also losing Son for a month, and I believe the Asian Cup is in Jan?

Also rotation will be needed more than ever due to the World Cup action with Belgium/England Players playing 7 games.
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Good summery of the squad!
 
no wonder we lost last night, no one started a match thread ! seemed like we were badly exposed at the back, the young lads probably still coming down and adjusting after playing in the states

no worries, only a week till season's opener
 
- who will start next week??? Who dares start the OMT here???

- Poch has to play some of the WC returnees at Saudi Sportswashing Machine doesn't he?

- Where is @Greg to rub it in?

- Will Poch play Eriksen/Alli deeper and allow us to play Moura and Son?

- Who is on the injury list? Sissoko, Wanyama, Lamela?, who else?
 
AdamB said:
I obviously dont want us to have a dreadful start however if it happened, I wondered whether it might make Levy re-evaluate his 'leave it all til the final week / high risk' strategy
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Why would our reserves* losing to a full strength La Liga side change his opinion on our first team/first team squad?


*Not even reserves really! 5 academy players started (more came on), then some reserves, arguably only Son and Davies were the first team players on show.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Why would our reserves* losing to a full strength La Liga side change his opinion on our first team/first team squad?


*Not even reserves really! 5 academy players started (more came on), then some reserves, arguably only Son and Davies were the first team players on show.
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I dont believe I suggested that did I? I said that if we had a poor start to the season then I wonder whether it might make us re-think our strategy of leaving such a large proportion of our transfers to the last few days
 
AdamB said:
I dont believe I suggested that did I? I said that if we had a poor start to the season then I wonder whether it might make us re-think our strategy of leaving such a large proportion of our transfers to the last few days
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Yeah, my bad - mis read it in the context of this being the pre-season thread with all the other coment being on the Girona game.

I think there is a difference in perspective here. Do you really believe Levy thinks the best thing to do it leave it late? Like thats how we set out to do business?

I dont. I think, like us, he would love to have it done weeks ago. I just think its a necessity of our position to push it this far to get the talent we want.

Obviously that comes with Risk, but the only other option is to spend more than we can afford* and even that doesnt guarantee us buys early in the window.


*Not entirely true. The third option is to spend what we can afford, but get much less talent for it.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Sissoko did a good job. But I won’t get into that...

I really want to know who people think we should sign, and where the obvious gap is.

Lloris / Vorm / Gazzaniga is a great selection of goalkeepers.

Trippier and Aurier - one of the World Cup’s best right backs and a guy that has shown a lot of potential before, is a full international and has a full pre season behind him.

Right now, Toby, Jan, Sanchez, Foyth, 2CV. Not even including Dier. That’s a great selection of centre backs. Yes, if Toby goes we could do with a top class replacement. And in a year or two we’ll be saying the same about Jan. But Jan just had a season as one of the best in the League - he’s hit his prime in terms of consistency, and Sanchez will be a monster this year.

Rose and Davies - Great depth there with KWP to cover in a push. Would love to get Sessegnon in but wasn’t possible this summer. Davies has improved beyond average back up to one of the best in the league in his position.

Dier and Wanyama in defensive midfield, with Amos to cover if we need. Yes Wanyama has had his injuries but if this isn’t serious, we can’t just sign players because someone is injured, especially when Dier would expect to play most weeks anyway. If Wanyama can’t get over it - by all means let’s sign someone else.

Dembele / Winks / Sissoko / Onomah - probably the weakest part of the team and one where we need to improve - the box to box midfield position. It will depend a lot on Dembele having his best days behind him, but Winks is more than able back up, Sissoko has done a job when called and Onomah is begging for a chance in his proper position. Skipp coming through. Someone who can replace Dembele being a key signing, but Winks is more than able back up.

Eriksen / Dele / Moura / Son / Lamela / that’s good depth in attacking midfield. Eriksen and Lamela can play deeper and Son can play up top. A Martial or Pulisic to add depth here and also options to cover Kane would be fantastic, but tough deals to pull off for obvious reasons. If we can’t get someone who is a genuine difference maker, we’ve got a great 5 there who will all expect to play, and all push each other. N’Koudou to play in a stretch.

Kane - Llorente - one of the best in the world and a veteran tournament winner who is happy to be back up. Don’t think we can really do better here, short of getting Martial.

—-

So weighing it all up, I can see a Dembele replacement being the most important signing, and a Martial type being the second most. Grealish may come into the Dembele position but would probably be a bonus to those two. I will just trust that we’ll go for a Dembele replacement this week, and see if we can make Martial or otherwise happen.

A lot depends on Toby moving, which will probably kickstart a few other things (and may loosten United on Martial). But people are acting like we need a CB because Toby has gone, we need to replace Wanyama because he’ll never be fit again, we need to replace Winks because he’ll never be fit again, and oh look we’ve just lost 4-1 to Girona which obviously proves loads about our squad, and we should definitely start making long term decisions on the back of this one game.

We’re fine. We’re in serious need of one signing. We’re in fairly decent need of another. Grealish would be a nice addition and could help with both of those positions, but is hopefully a bonus. Let’s see what we can do this week.

Next summer I can see more serious surgery taking place. Toby will have been gone one way or the other, Jan will be another year older so we may decide to future proof him with a Sanchez esque signing or hope 2CV or Foyth have broken through. Rose may be gone and Sess may be more amenable to coming. And maybe Eriksen or Dele get a massive move and we need to replace them too. (Hope not but could happen then).

When there will be such obvious surgery required, I’d be worried if we leave it this late to do any of it...but now? We don’t need to waste cash on signing for signings sake. We’re in good shape. We might end the week with Kovacic, Grealish, De Ligt and Martial, but lose Toby and people will wonder what the fuss was about. Or we might end it with just Grealish and without losing anyone. Or we might sell Dembele and sign Grealish and Cook.

(Side note, I suspect Levy is playing poker with Toby in order to get Martial. He knows other clubs want Martial, so he’s probably telling United that they can have Toby if they do a straight swap, banking on the fact United didn’t mind dealing with Chelsea before. That way we don’t worry about getting gazumped, because United will know that they can’t get Toby without AM. But that requires one club blinking first, and it’s probably resting on United seeing if they can get Maguire or another. If they do, we need to move to other targets quick. But if they decide Toby is it, we could do seriously well out of the deal. If it goes to the wire and Martial’s gone elsewhere, we may well keep Toby, but I suspect those two players have been linked together, and that’s what a bit of the hold up on movement has been about (alongside early transfer window making English clubs worried about Europe).
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I I can't dance with that at all, i think some are looking at the worst that can happen and that is not the way of winners. In other words i hope/believe that those who really matter ( those inside the club) are not as negative as some fans seem to be.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Yeah, my bad - mis read it in the context of this being the pre-season thread with all the other coment being on the Girona game.

I think there is a difference in perspective here. Do you really believe Levy thinks the best thing to do it leave it late? Like thats how we set out to do business?
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I think Levy is happy to do deals early if they're on terms which he believes are better than is likely to be considered 'fair' or 'market' and if there are no knock-on repercussions for for other deals. If he isn't able to get a bargain, or something better than fair/market, then he's happy to wait

In a number of circumstances though, I think it would be better to accept paying £20m for a £20m player and getting them early, rather than waiting to the last minute and seeing whether you can get it done for £15m
 
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AdamB said:
I think Levy is happy to do deals early if they're on terms which he believes are better than is likely to be considered 'fair' or 'market' and if there are no knock-on repercussions for for other deals. If he isn't able to get a bargain, or something better than fair/market, then he's happy to wait
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Fair enough.

I think, if he could, he would get all business done early and then go on holiday.

The only reason to leave it so late is because he has to.

I make the assumption his intentions are the same as mine - IE - get the best possible players we can. So I accept the way he goes about business.

Look at Kovacic. £80m at the beginning of the window (reported). most likely out of our price range, but assuming we tried - City, Liverpool, Utd can all come in and gazump us.

Now? All have spent big on midfielders, and his price is £53-60 (reported) as Madrid need to move him on.

We may/may not get him - but I think its very obvious why we would wait. Its either look for a situation like this, or buy whatever we can at the beginning of the window which I am certain wouldnt be as appealing/talented.
 
Legohamster said:
Sit nicely alongside the Peace Cup
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Opening the new stadium with a new trophy ain't bad.

guinness-intl-soccer-trophy.jpg
 
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