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Politics, politics, politics

SpurMeUp said:
There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside
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David Davis
10 October 2016

The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want
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Michael Gove
9 April 2016

Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards
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John Redwood
July 17 2016

The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history
Liam Fox
20 July 2017
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Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU … The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated
David Davis
14 July 2016
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The UK is currently implementing a new customs declaration service, which will replace the existing HMRC customs system. This is a high-priority project within government and HMRC is on track to deliver by January 2019
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Department for Exiting the EU
15 August 2017


I am confident that using the most up-to-date technology, we can get a non-visible border operational along the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland
David Davis
5 September 2017
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Were they deluded or lying do you think?
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Ha, ha. A rogues gallery of lying, incompetent right wing fudge wits!
 
r-u-s-x said:
Should we leave nato /United nations /WTO all do the same.
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If we feel it's best for us long-term i'm sure we could/would.

EU membership a bit different though in that it's a local club of nations who choose to agree to common trading conditions and less barriers to trade between. Fine. It's just the creeping march towards a United States of Europe that makes some say "stop the bus, let's get off."
Life exists outside said local club.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It's basically the UK being a rule taker rather than maker. The EU and US will control (regulate) what is sold globally and we'll get no say. Whereas now, we do. In fact the EU Meds Agency that determines what passes is in the UK.

We might spend tax payers money on a new UK agency, but what is it going to do when drugs companies will look to US and EU regulators for approval and guidance? What would be the point of creating a UK agency that creates more bureaucracy and cost to service 50m people?
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As i've said many times, collaboration is absolutely fine. Pooling certain things is also fine; but NOT at the point of giving away absolutely all sovereignty and control: we have enough complexities and problems with our own government/democratic systems without deciding that decision-making should be even further away from us. I don't think the benefits of the club outweigh this.

You do, fair enough. I don't. Certainly not when you actually see how hamstrung some of the EU Governments actually are when being members and how little ability to change tack the Italian voter likely feels.
 
the dza said:
Agree that those politicians who would be happy with a WTO deal should have prepared us for one. They could have, by getting rid of May after the last General Election. But they collectively sh1t their pants, nobody stepped forward to give us their hard brexit vision, all they offered was carping from the sidelines. They don't want to be held responsible, incase WTO consequences turn out to be more than 'project fear.' And they don't want to ask the people if that is what we want because they know that WTO Brexit commands a majority nowhere.

I don't actually want a 2nd referendum, but those who insist on hard brexit should be brave enough to call for one and ask us the specific question: WTO or Remain.
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I agree that letting the remainer May steer the ship was madness. Even herself though should/could have allowed some in Government to actually make back-up preps for a no deal/WTO scenario. The fact she has gone from "No deal is better than a bad deal" to "we accept this bad deal or no brexit" says a lot about her competence especially given how she overtook negotiations and also triggered an unnecessary general election which she reduced her majority.

I for one would be happy if it came to it for a vote of WTO Bexit vs Remain; but alas i think we are staying by proxy anyway...
 
glorygloryeze said:
If we feel it's best for us long-term i'm sure we could/would.

EU membership a bit different though in that it's a local club of nations who choose to agree to common trading conditions and less barriers to trade between. Fine. It's just the creeping march towards a United States of Europe that makes some say "stop the bus, let's get off."
Life exists outside said local club.
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Italy chose to sign up to the restrictions - not different at all, in both cases you chose to give up some flexibility in order to gain something else. Italy are free to choose to leave the EU if they wish, they do not so have to abide by their agreements.

What you are suggesting is no different to ripping up debt owed because it was the last government who borrowed it, not good in the long run.
 
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glorygloryeze said:
As i've said many times, collaboration is absolutely fine. Pooling certain things is also fine; but NOT at the point of giving away absolutely all sovereignty and control.
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With respect, maybe you don’t fully appreciate the remit of the EU. It is based on collaboration and recognition of sovereign partner nations. Things you seem to broadly agree with.

When have we ever given away “all sovereignty and control” it’s a complete misnomer.

The sole thing we know we’ll get from Mays Brexit is control of freedom of movement. But last year that would mean control of 70k people who came into the uk....verses 250,000 who our sovereign independent country let in from the rest of the world.

Tell me again, how will this deal give us any more control, and of what exactly?

Scratch the surface and Brexit doesn’t add up. Leave is based on fear and a lack of understanding and has put forward nothing promising or forward thinking. It’s a waste of time that will make us and future generations poorer. But don’t consider the evidence...stick staunchly to a belief system over and above all else!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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So, I don’t post in this thread but I follow all the postings as it is full of insightful (mostly) opinions and information, whether I agree or not.
But I thought I would relay a conversation I had earlier today, with a Leave voter.
He said, pretty much verbatim, that “people who voted leave voted did so on the basis that it was all about controlling who comes into the country. But really, it’s not about that, is it? It’s all about trade. I never knew that”.
Wow.
Now, this person is clearly more stupid than I had realised, but I wonder how representative that view is. Regardless, politicians have a huge responsibility for where we are now. The lack of clearly articulated - and readily available to the masses - factual information has been shocking, criminal really. Ghod knows how this will end, but the whole thing has become little more than perfection.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
So, I don’t post in this thread but I follow all the postings as it is full of insightful (mostly) opinions and information, whether I agree or not.
But I thought I would relay a conversation I had earlier today, with a Leave voter.
He said, pretty much verbatim, that “people who voted leave voted did so on the basis that it was all about controlling who comes into the country. But really, it’s not about that, is it? It’s all about trade. I never knew that”.
Wow.
Now, this person is clearly more stupid than I had realised, but I wonder how representative that view is. Regardless, politicians have a huge responsibility for where we are now. The lack of clearly articulated - and readily available to the masses - factual information has been shocking, criminal really. Ghod knows how this will end, but the whole thing has become little more than perfection.
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Whilst I absolutely approve of a system where votes are weighted by intelligence, an understanding of economics and possibly even experience in business and contributions to the Exchequer, we currently have a system where all votes are equal and so must follow the wishes of the people. Even though they're mainly quite stupid.
 
scaramanga said:
Whilst I absolutely approve of a system where votes are weighted by intelligence, an understanding of economics and possibly even experience in business and contributions to the Exchequer, we currently have a system where all votes are equal and so must follow the wishes of the people. Even though they're mainly quite stupid.
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A better solution is to get rid of elections and have parliaments determined by a lottery (like a jury service type thing). The minute you make rules, they get abused by the powerful. No parties, just governance.
 
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