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Politics, politics, politics

the dza said:
Maybe. But let's try and get him in as leader of Labour and then go from there. I think the public will like some of his policies and the fact that he is an honest, conviction politician.

Public ownership of railways - polls well with the public.

Public ownership of utilities - polls well.

Higher taxes for the wealthy - polls well.

Not wanting to go to war in Syria - polls well.

His views on immigration and the Royal Family don't poll so well. His stance on benefit cuts will probably win him friends as those who claim in-work benefits and voted Tory find themselves to be out of pocket over the next couple of years. There's a large pool of voters who don't vote, many of them young. His policies are pro young people and perhaps he can make gains from those who don't vote due to the "they are all the same" attitudes.

Apparently, the SNP put on a million more votes in the election just gone -- 500k from other parties (mainly Labour) and 500k from the 'don't vote' pool of voters. Scotland voted to remain part of the UK, but the Scots still went to the SNP for their anti-austerity policies. Things can change.

Also, whilst Corbyn's views on immigration won't play well with a lot of UKIP voters, the fact that he is willing to entertain leaving the EU might well do.

He's not a messiah, he's not got 100% perfect policies, but I agree with a lot of what he says and the positions he sets out. Galvanise the youth vote and who knows?

He's got to win the leadership first though ;)
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I hope he does get the vote if only to give the public a different angle then what they have had, partys with leaders with nothing but sound bites, thousand pounds suits and media presence, and false promises. Its time to get a leader of a party who has convictions and says what he believes in not what they think the general public want to hear.

The whole political situation has never been as poor as it has been over the last decade or so, it needs someone/something to restore peoples faith in the whole system. I have no problem with any party bringing in policies I may disagree with but I hate being lied too and treated like a idiot ( which is what is happening).

Now I am not saying that Corbyn will get in ( I doubt he will) and I am also not saying he will pick the country up again, but we need a leader who believes in what he says and will do his utmost to carry that through. None of the other leaders will because they will always go back on what they promise.
 
NWND said:
But it's not what is best for all. The majority do not want the country to be run the way he wants it to be run. And guess what, if people vote for what's best for them and the majority vote for a particular party/set of policies, then surely that set of policies are best for all.

And what is the honest truth? Do you know why politicians are cagey about answering questions? It's because if you want to be a true representative of your constituency, or your country, you have to cater for a huge range of different people. What is the truth for one person, might not be for someone else. What's the right opinion for one, might be the wrong one for someone else.

Corbyn is probably the most unelectable person the Labour party could find.
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Since when did a majority of Britons vote Tory? You can't count mate. Only about 65% of eligible voters made their mark for anybody. So please, don't get too carried away.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Since when did a majority of Britons vote Tory? You can't count mate. Only about 65% of eligible voters made their mark for anybody. So please, don't get too carried away.
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I wouldn't get too carried away with semantics there.

They got chosen by the electorate as the sole party to run the country and were the largest party by a very large margin.

Within the scope of this disussion (whether or not the country wants some mental, far left brand of socialism) then it may as well have been the whole planet that voted Conservative. There are people eligible to vote that weren't even alive the last time a party outside the fairly narrow centre was voted in - and for an entire generation before that they voted right of centre.

As for the policies that get public support - you'll probably find most policies get public support when the costs and consequences aren't part of the equation. If we asked the country "would you like it if we made sure nobody was ever poor again?" you'd get a 100% yes in response. When it comes to an election and it's made clear that making poor people rich means giving away all your nice stuff and your hard-earned money then people are far less keen.
 
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the dza said:
A quick google: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/pre-election-pledges-tories-are-trying-wipe-internet

*edit* and I'm sure there are plenty more examples of this under Blair/Brown too.
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As I have already told him mate I would not waste my time searching for the times that they have lied, he is either to lazy to search himself( or does not want to face up to the truth). If/when he does find them he would dismiss it as propaganda which would/does not sit with his ideals.
 
the dza said:
A quick google: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/pre-election-pledges-tories-are-trying-wipe-internet

*edit* and I'm sure there are plenty more examples of this under Blair/Brown too.
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They're not lies though are they? The Tories and Liberals both made pre-2010 statements in their manifestos that frankly all go out the window along with the manifesto when neither of them won the election. They negotiated a coalition government where there was a lot of trading of policies.

Where is the lie there? Every intelligent and reasonable person knows what happened in 2010 and that the manifestos went out the window post election. So I want evidence of actual lies please.
 
parklane1 said:
As I have already told him mate I would not waste my time searching for the times that they have lied, he is either to lazy to search himself( or does not want to face up to the truth). If/when he does find them he would dismiss it as propaganda which would/does not sit with his ideals.
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You're not even willing to give any examples. I think you lie to yourself. You've told yourself that the government is out to fudge you over so many times it's become true in your head.
 
NWND said:
They're not lies though are they? The Tories and Liberals both made pre-2010 statements in their manifestos that frankly all go out the window along with the manifesto when neither of them won the election. They negotiated a coalition government where there was a lot of trading of policies.

Where is the lie there? Every intelligent and reasonable person knows what happened in 2010 and that the manifestos went out the window post election. So I want evidence of actual lies please.
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Well, take the VAT rise. Was that a Lib Dem idea? If not, then it was a Tory idea. So it follows that they lied when saying they had no plans to raise that tax. "We would never have raised this regressive tax if it wasn't for those pesky Lib Dems." I think a bit of common sense could be applied there.

Are you suggesting that the only time a government has broken a manifesto pledge was in the case of coalition government? Infact, forget it, don't answer. Pointless. Let's just all agree that you are right and we can all call it a day.
 
the dza said:
Well, take the VAT rise. Was that a Lib Dem idea? If not, then it was a Tory idea. So it follows that they lied when saying they had no plans to raise that tax. "We would never have raised this regressive tax if it wasn't for those pesky Lib Dems." I think a bit of common sense could be applied there.

Are you suggesting that the only time a government has broken a manifesto pledge was in the case of coalition government? Infact, forget it, don't answer. Pointless. Let's just all agree that you are right and we can all call it a day.
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Don't be such a clown shoe. Why do the left talk the whole "everyone for everyone", but are the kind of people that like to lash out and think the worst of everyone. The government are against us, they're lying to us, they're out to f**k us over. You disagree with me? You're "one of them". I'm not even going to enter into a discussion about it. What's the point? You're "one of them". I'm not going to give you any proof of my point of view, they just lie to us. If you can't see that, there's no point in convincing you. You're either with us, or "one of them".

What a bunch of pathetic cretins.
 
NWND said:
Don't be such a clown shoe. Why do the left talk the whole "everyone for everyone", but are the kind of people that like to lash out and think the worst of everyone. The government are against us, they're lying to us, they're out to f**k us over. You disagree with me? You're "one of them". I'm not even going to enter into a discussion about it. What's the point? You're "one of them". I'm not going to give you any proof of my point of view, they just lie to us. If you can't see that, there's no point in convincing you. You're either with us, or "one of them".

What a bunch of pathetic cretins.
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For clarity, who exactly are you referring to here? The 'Left' or some posters in this thread?
 
glorygloryeze said:
For clarity, who exactly are you referring to here? The 'Left' or some posters in this thread?
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The posters in this thread. I don't actually believe in left and right as such, although I get that most people do. My dad is very left-wing. He's a Labour party activist, old-Labour, like my grandfather, who was a sheet metal worker from Durham. So I'm not against left-wingers as such. Other than Robert Pires. Always used to score against us. He was a d***.
 
parklane1 said:
Soon as name calling comes into the conversation you know they have nothing worth listening to.
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You're the one with the closed mind. You won't even engage in debate. You're the one saying "all politicians lie" while putting your fingers in your ears saying "la la la I'm not listening".

While your little friend says what's the point let's just say you're right and leave it there. If someone says a wa.nk.erish thing they deserve to be called a wa.nk.er.
 
NWND said:
You're the one with the closed mind. You won't even engage in debate. You're the one saying "all politicians lie" while putting your fingers in your ears saying "la la la I'm not listening".

While your little friend says what's the point let's just say you're right and leave it there. If someone says a wa.nk.erish thing they deserve to be called a wa.nk.er.
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Why do you get so upset? You ask for an example of some lies, I did a 5 second google search and found some plausible examples from the last government, then you dismiss them. So it seems what I see as white, you say is black. So there's nowhere to go from there. I don't speak for anybody but myself, probably best we don't respond to each others posts if you get worked up about it. It's just not that important.
 
the dza said:
Why do you get so upset? You ask for an example of some lies, I did a 5 second google search and found some plausible examples from the last government, then you dismiss them. So it seems what I see as white, you say is black. So there's nowhere to go from there. I don't speak for anybody but myself, probably best we don't respond to each others posts if you get worked up about it. It's just not that important.
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If you felt that way you didn't even have to respond to my post. By posting let's just pretend you're right and move on, that's patronising and highly cu.ntish, and pretty much designed to wind someone up. So you can fu.ck right off with your innocence.
 
NWND, you seem to have a tendency to explode (and eventually get banned) on this board.

Paulinho, AVB, politics, posting pics of vaginas in response to a post from Scara...the list goes on.

I think you said you worked as a lawyer/solicitor? Makes me wonder how you'd last longer than half-an-hour in a court cross-examination process if this is how you routinely explode?
 
glorygloryeze said:
NWND, you seem to have a tendency to explode (and eventually get banned) on this board.

Paulinho, AVB, politics, posting pics of vaginas in response to a post from Scara...the list goes on.

I think you said you worked as a lawyer/solicitor? Makes me wonder how you'd last longer than half-an-hour in a court cross-examination process if this is how you routinely explode?
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Thanks for the observation.
 
I'd forgotten about that vagina - felt sure that vagina would get me perma-banned though. I was sure of it. Strange..
 
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