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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Mikey10 said:
He’s had a lot to say but my feeling is there has been little action really.

Several Ukrainian cities have been razed to the ground; genocide has taken place; rape is being used as a weapon of war; tens of thousands of Ukrainians have died; 10 million people have been displaced; and Eastern Ukraine will soon be annexed in the same way that Crimea was.

Like every other European leader, Johnson has stood by and allowed this to happen.
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Its Neville Chamberlain and Czechoslovakia. Absolutely gutless
 
Mikey10 said:
He’s had a lot to say but my feeling is there has been little action really.

Several Ukrainian cities have been razed to the ground; genocide has taken place; rape is being used as a weapon of war; tens of thousands of Ukrainians have died; 10 million people have been displaced; and Eastern Ukraine will soon be annexed in the same way that Crimea was.

Like every other European leader, Johnson has stood by and allowed this to happen.
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Frankly that is utter rubbish. Millions of pounds of weapons that has helped protect and helped them defend themselves. The Ukrainians themselves have said this.

Johnson should be sacked. But he has done well on Ukraine.

I doubt the tories will get rid of him and to be fair are any of us surprised a politician lies. Bliar was the biggest one in my lifetime.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Frankly that is utter rubbish. Millions of pounds of weapons that has helped protect and helped them defend themselves. The Ukrainians themselves have said this.

Johnson should be sacked. But he has done well on Ukraine.

I doubt the tories will get rid of him and to be fair are any of us surprised a politician lies. Bliar was the biggest one in my lifetime.
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Has he? has he done anything beyond the average expectation?

I don't think he has screwed the pooch over the Ukraine as he has so many other things but has he actually done well beyond following Military and Intelligence suggestions on how to conduct himself and where to give/sell arms?

On the other point, are we now just going to accept politicians can break the law at their own whim and lie to parliament without ant repercussions? Where then decency and democracy?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Frankly that is utter rubbish. Millions of pounds of weapons that has helped protect and helped them defend themselves. The Ukrainians themselves have said this.

Johnson should be sacked. But he has done well on Ukraine.

I doubt the tories will get rid of him and to be fair are any of us surprised a politician lies. Bliar was the biggest one in my lifetime.
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All politicians lie its part of the job as you say, its just some lies are worsse that others and taking us into a war like Blair and the milk snatcher did is despicable. Especially to those who had family killed because of it.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Frankly that is utter rubbish. Millions of pounds of weapons that has helped protect and helped them defend themselves. The Ukrainians themselves have said this.

Johnson should be sacked. But he has done well on Ukraine.

I doubt the tories will get rid of him and to be fair are any of us surprised a politician lies. Bliar was the biggest one in my lifetime.
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We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. For me, he’s done much less than he could have (not just militarily, but on sanctions and on Ukrainian refugees too). He’s not on his own - I think the leadership of Europe has, in general, continued to be very weak in the face of Putin’s aggression. I don’t think anything done so far will have had any effect other than to embolden him further.
 
Lost Mango said:
Has he? has he done anything beyond the average expectation?

I don't think he has screwed the pooch over the Ukraine as he has so many other things but has he actually done well beyond following Military and Intelligence suggestions on how to conduct himself and where to give/sell arms?

On the other point, are we now just going to accept politicians can break the law at their own whim and lie to parliament without ant repercussions? Where then decency and democracy?
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Well Bliar took us into an illegal war, destabilised a whole region, caused terrorism to spike. Lied to Parliament about weapons of mass destruction.

I think it is pretty naive to think this is the first time a prime minister has lied.

I never voted for him, won't next election either. But don't see the big deal. His party need to decide whether they think he can win the next election, I don't think it matter who stands for the Conservatives they will lose because of the coming financial crisis.

Which is why they might make him fight it. So that they can clear him and the rest out for a new intake in 2026.
 
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Mikey10 said:
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. For me, he’s done much less than he could have (not just militarily, but on sanctions and on Ukrainian refugees too). He’s not on his own - I think the leadership of Europe has, in general, continued to be very weak in the face of Putin’s aggression. I don’t think anything done so far will have had any effect other than to embolden him further.
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He has quite literally done far more then France and Germany and as someone else further up said probably because he is listening to his military advisers. When he listens to other people he gets close to competent.

I suspect half the reason he is doing so is to detract from domestic issues. It is obvious to me the tax revelations last week leaked from number 10. Johnson will use anything to stay in power. The worst ever local election results might make the party act. But I'm not sure.
 
parklane1 said:
All politicians lie its part of the job as you say, its just some lies are worsse that others and taking us into a war like Blair and the milk snatcher did is despicable. Especially to those who had family killed because of it.
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Well the thing with the Falklands and Ukraine are they are sovereign States being invaded. If you believe in self determination and democracy and it is the cornerstone of all my political beliefs. Then those wars were justified on some level. Iraq was not.
 
high-ranking Estonian defence chief has praised the UK for its support deterring Russian aggression in Ukraine, but called on Western allies to double the number of troops being sent to the country's eastern border.

Kusti Salm, permanent secretary for the Estonian Ministry of Defence, said Nato forces needed to ramp up their presence in the Baltic States to warn Russian president Vladimir Putin against further invading Europe.

Calling Russia "a historic-level murderer", Mr Salm told journalists at a press conference in Tallinn, the country's capital, that the threat from the Russian Federation was now "as clear as anything can be".

"There's not enough words of thank you for Britain. Britain has definitely done a lot, so we are extremely grateful," he said.

"There has been no hesitation in its commitment to the allied principles. But everyone can always do more.

"We need to make sure that the deterrent message the allied forces are sending to Russia is that they shouldn't even have a thought about invading Nato or attacking Nato."

Since the war in Ukraine began, Britain has doubled the number of soldiers it has based in Estonia as part of the Nato Enhanced Forward Presence (eFP) in the country, bringing the total to 1,650.
 
Rorschach said:
That is too close for comfort. The last thing we need is another fascist in charge.
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And especially a fascist in charge of a major nation.
It would be the biggest test for the EU. They've rattled the saber with Austria, Poland and Hungary, but ultimately they are all less influencial and have recent histories that help explain why fascism is still around.

France is a very different proposition. Without wanting to make too lazy of a historical comparison, could it be similar to Italy and Musolini? Italy wasn't overly fascist but sleep walked into Muscolini getting to power.
 
monkeybarry said:
And especially a fascist in charge of a major nation.
It would be the biggest test for the EU. They've rattled the saber with Austria, Poland and Hungary, but ultimately they are all less influencial and have recent histories that help explain why fascism is still around.

France is a very different proposition. Without wanting to make too lazy of a historical comparison, could it be similar to Italy and Musolini? Italy wasn't overly fascist but sleep walked into Muscolini getting to power.
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Isn't the EU the problem? 61% of the French population are opposed to the EU (compared to 52% of the British). But the neo-liberal leaders like Macron are so wedded to the ideology, they ignore their people and push the moderates to the extremes.

The French are mainly really angry at neo-liberalism and globalisation. It's just a shame Melenchon didn't get through, because that would have given them a much better solution to their woes.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Isn't the EU the problem? 61% of the French population are opposed to the EU (compared to 52% of the British). But the neo-liberal leaders like Macron are so wedded to the ideology, they ignore their people and push the moderates to the extremes.

The French are mainly really angry at neo-liberalism and globalisation. It's just a shame Melenchon didn't get through, because that would have given them a much better solution to their woes.
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It always is and always will be the problem and quite literally the source of all the world's ills.
 
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