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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Lilbaz said:
If you are going to argue something i said. Try and argue with what i actually said. Our services, banking, insurance etc... doesen't depend on distance.

Why can't we trade with both?

I love the mental gymnastics people do. The eu is the most protectionist economy on the planet. So do we want globalisation, or not? Should we have more trade with africa, help their economies? South america, asia. All places that have had far higher growth rates than the eu since we've been in it.

Anyway. Wasn't asking about brexit. That's done. Was asking what you thought about canzuk. Yes or no?
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Even services are affected by distance to some degree. Having a face to face meeting in NewZealand vs Berlin or Paris. Time differences. And CO2 with flights. So EU trade over Canadian and Australasian trade every day of the weak.

Maybe the only advantage of Brexit is the UKs agility. Canzuk may not help the UK get leverage with the EU, just complicate matters further and slow us down.

So Canzuk is a little misguided I think.

The EU is probably the most open trading block for Africa with zero tariffs for the poorest nations to export to the EU! The US is far more protectionist.

maybe this will answer your questions about globalisation, regionalism is also a thing apparently https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/02/23/why-distance-matters-in-trade/
 
AuroRaman said:
Thanks for sharing. Your friends story and @thfcsteff ’s earlier matches my ex’s. She is in an upper-level position in her career and active in general but it is crushing for her when the symptoms arise. She’s learnt to live with it and even control it to some extent, but she lost much of her chance to have a ‘normal’ childhood and even now struggles for consistent normality. When we started dating she tried to hide that she had ME. She still has close friends and colleagues who have no idea because she’s fearful of the stigma around it based on uneducated and ignorant opinions. She’s lucky she is incredibly good at her job and high enough up that she can choose to work from home when she feels symptoms coming on. The documentary I posted meant a lot to her as it is one of, if not the first that has documented the struggles of living with the condition.

The irony is not lost on me that in one thread we’re posting about how woke we are against mainstream media yet in others like this one, we are offering opinions based on ‘my hero Jeremy Clarkson/Piers Morgan said it so it must be true’ playbook.
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Indeed.
I have so much to say mate -as you would well know- but if I start here it could end with a self-ban, so best I just keep it for our next dinner/meet up!!!
 
SpurMeUp said:
Even services are affected by distance to some degree. Having a face to face meeting in NewZealand vs Berlin or Paris. Time differences. And CO2 with flights. So EU trade over Canadian and Australasian trade every day of the weak.

Maybe the only advantage of Brexit is the UKs agility. Canzuk may not help the UK get leverage with the EU, just complicate matters further and slow us down.

So Canzuk is a little misguided I think.

The EU is probably the most open trading block for Africa with zero tariffs for the poorest nations to export to the EU! The US is far more protectionist.

maybe this will answer your questions about globalisation, regionalism is also a thing apparently https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/02/23/why-distance-matters-in-trade/
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Low tariffs does not mean fair. The cap has massively crippled african and other countries. Eu countries getting subsidies could sell for lower prices than developing countries. Because of low tariffs agreed the countries couldn't do anything about it.

https://politiikasta.fi/en/the-european-union-as-a-specific-case-of-economic-protectionism-2/
 
Daisuk said:
It is. Our good neighbour suffers from ME, and has since she was 18 (she's 35 now). She spent six years laying in a dark room in bed. Six years. She barely had the energy to drink a glass of water every once in a while. Thankfully, she's better now, but she still can't do a lot before it'll have a crushing effect on her. And this woman, I know for a fact that she'd be far busier than me if she didn't have this brick - she spent her teens doing gymnastics, climbing and was active in politics. For someone to suggest she's somehow "faking it" to be able to "laze around at home", as if that's some sort of prize - well, I just don't know what to say to that. Educate yourselves.
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This!
 
Lilbaz said:
Low tariffs does not mean fair. The cap has massively crippled african and other countries. Eu countries getting subsidies could sell for lower prices than developing countries. Because of low tariffs agreed the countries couldn't do anything about it.

https://politiikasta.fi/en/the-european-union-as-a-specific-case-of-economic-protectionism-2/
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Hold up, for the world least developed countries LDCs - of which most are in Africa - there are no tariffs or taxes to export to the EU! There are no limits on goods either (quotas). That is not protectionist is it?

The EU also gives aid for trade to these predominantly African poooe nations. More than any other nations circa 3 billion euros a year.

The CAP protects nations farmers. It needs reform but it is also a reaction to WWII when nations were left without their own domestic food production - as the UK was. Will be interesting to see what happens in the UK over the coming years without helping local farmers produce high quality food. It could be a huge change to the countryside
 
Lilbaz said:
Low tariffs does not mean fair. The cap has massively crippled african and other countries. Eu countries getting subsidies could sell for lower prices than developing countries. Because of low tariffs agreed the countries couldn't do anything about it.

https://politiikasta.fi/en/the-european-union-as-a-specific-case-of-economic-protectionism-2/
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Hold up, for the worlds least developed countries LDCs - of which most are in Africa - there are no tariffs or taxes to export to the EU! There are no limits on goods either (quotas). That is not protectionist is it? It’s the opposite!

The EU also gives aid for trade to these predominantly African poor nations. More than any other nations - circa 3 billion euros a year.

The CAP protects eu countries farmers. It needs reform but it is also a reaction to WWII when nations were left without their own domestic food production - as the UK was. Will be interesting to see what happens in the UK over the coming years without the help for local farmers to produce high quality food. It could be a huge change within the countryside with maybe less farms
 
SpurMeUp said:
Hold up, for the world least developed countries LDCs - of which most are in Africa - there are no tariffs or taxes to export to the EU! There are no limits on goods either (quotas). That is not protectionist is it?

The EU also gives aid for trade to these predominantly African poooe nations. More than any other nations circa 3 billion euros a year.

The CAP protects nations farmers. It needs reform but it is also a reaction to WWII when nations were left without their own domestic food production - as the UK was. Will be interesting to see what happens in the UK over the coming years without helping local farmers produce high quality food. It could be a huge change to the countryside
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When i talk of protectionism. I'm talking capitalist protectionism.

Yes they have free trade for certain things to the advantage of the eu. Food is one. The eu subsidises their farmers (which fine for national security) means they then export to africa and undercut their farmers. With little coming the other way.
They also have free trade on raw materials. Which they then make into cars and other products and sell back to africa at a profit.
https://www.un.org/africarenewal/magazine/august-2014/trade-between-two-unequal-partners

As for aid. More money has gone out of africa since the 70s and put into offshore banks than has been given in aid. Which yes we certainly helped with. Our empire changed.
 
thfcsteff said:
Hahahaha...
Anyone who has the remotest knowledge of working from home knows that it is not helpful to work/life balance, and such a thing always remains with the person themselves. In fact, office life. makes slacking and lazy arse behavior easier.
You need to watch Office Space. Comedy though it might be, the truth is equally abundant.
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Nobody actually wants to do it to improve their work/life balance, they just think it'll be a doss. You're right though, for anyone that actually cares about their work it's the opposite.

It's a handy tool for employers now, employees are actually stepping up and announcing that they're lazy bastards who should be replaced at the earliest opportunity.
 
You do also notice that the senior staff and the keen young ones are the ones back in, and there's a growing detachment from the rest, especially now lunching and post-work drinks have resumed
 
Lilbaz said:
When i talk of protectionism. I'm talking capitalist protectionism.

Yes they have free trade for certain things to the advantage of the eu. Food is one. The eu subsidises their farmers (which fine for national security) means they then export to africa and undercut their farmers. With little coming the other way.
They also have free trade on raw materials. Which they then make into cars and other products and sell back to africa at a profit.
https://www.un.org/africarenewal/magazine/august-2014/trade-between-two-unequal-partners

As for aid. More money has gone out of africa since the 70s and put into offshore banks than has been given in aid. Which yes we certainly helped with. Our empire changed.
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Well the EU is far more helpful than the likes of the US who is protectionist. Allowing complete free trade to export into the EU for the poorest countries is the opposite of 'protectionist'. Apart from arms, it allows literally any goods in without any barriers. Of course the EU also protects its own industries - that is the point and what every country does. What would you do differently?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Well the EU is far more helpful than the likes of the US who is protectionist. Allowing complete free trade to export into the EU for the poorest countries is the opposite of 'protectionist'. Apart from arms, it allows literally any goods in without any barriers. Of course the EU also protects its own industries - that is the point and what every country does. What would you do differently?
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Read the articles i linked.
 
Lilbaz said:
Read the articles i linked.
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Loved the video, nothing to do with the EU - post-imperialism was that your angle? The article on Afrian trade didn't seem to throw anything up.

The UK could now do things differently. In theory we can be revolutionary, and treat African nations differently. The problem is the notion that the EU has done things particularly badly is a bit of a misnomer; and there aren't huge improvements we'll make. We're more likely to either replicate their trade rules or put in worse terms. The US is far more protectionist doesn't offer complete free trade for the poorest nations or spend the same amount on aid.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Loved the video, nothing to do with the EU - post-imperialism was that your angle? The article on Afrian trade didn't seem to throw anything up.

The UK could now do things differently. In theory we can be revolutionary, and treat African nations differently. The problem is the notion that the EU has done things particularly badly is a bit of a misnomer; and there aren't huge improvements we'll make. We're more likely to either replicate their trade rules or put in worse terms. The US is far more protectionist doesn't offer complete free trade for the poorest nations or spend the same amount on aid.
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I said what the angle was. That more money has left africa and gone into off shore banks from africa than had been given in aid. Basically aid is just going into corrupt leaders bank accounts. Add to the fact the high birth rate in africa (ethiopias population has trebled since live aid), means even though they have good economic growth, the people are not getting any richer.
 
I had an idea this morning that could both help improve relations between those of us here in Britain and the French, and eliminate carbon by reducing travel.

That is, we could undertake an exchange project where we look after the graves and memories of their citizens who died in the U.K. whilst they reciprocate for our war dead.

Do you think anyone would object? I might run this up the flagpole with the ambassador.
 
johnola said:
I had an idea this morning that could both help improve relations between those of us here in Britain and the French, and eliminate carbon by reducing travel.

That is, we could undertake an exchange project where we look after the graves and memories of their citizens who died in the U.K. whilst they reciprocate for our war dead.

Do you think anyone would object? I might run this up the flagpole with the ambassador.
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Don't they already do that?

Last time I was in Normandy the monuments and graveyards were immaculate.
 
Lilbaz said:
Oh i thought it was a comment on british soldiers dying in france with no french soldiers dying in the uk.
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To be fair to the French, they tend to have enormous respect and gratitude for our war efforts.

School visits to the sites are regular and, certainly in Normandy, that's a serious part of the curriculum.
 
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