Pape Matar Sarr

[Finney Is Back]

Impressive cameo. But he skewed a wild shot from range much like he did for Senegal in the WC.So, to paraphrase Lady Bracknell, once may be regarded as unfortunate, but twice seems like carelessness.

I was really impressed that he took the shot on (think it was a left foot volley) that shows real confidence. Many young players don't feel they belong with the top group and would therefore do something 'safe' in that position. The fact that he took on a shot there shows he feels he belongs in that group. It's the sort of thing Dele Ali would've done when he first started playing for us.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I was really impressed that he took the shot on (think it was a left foot volley) that shows real confidence. Many young players don't feel they belong with the top group and would therefore do something 'safe' in that position. The fact that he took on a shot there shows he feels he belongs in that group. It's the sort of thing Dele Ali would've done when he first started playing for us.

Didn't he have one from range against England that went pretty close?

Or is that the one @Spur of the moment meant that he spooned?

 

[braineclipse]

All our young players will have the odd bad game, we (and Conte) need to stop being dingdongs about it.

I'd also say it's another hint our recruitment is improving, Gil, Sarr plus Udogie is doing well and there is still potential in Spence. 4 Signings reminiscent of when Spurs did it's best buys.

Yes. And shows why continuing with some of that youth strategy can be really important even though Conte wants (and should get) mostly quick fix solutions.

 

[papaspur]

Can we stop being linked with CMs now? We'd have to sell at least one before we even think about bringing one in, and this is not even considering the 2-3 CMs we have out on loan now.
Not to say Sarr is going to eventually be a starter for us, too soon to say obviously. Promising though, just wish Conte would've rotated more throughout this season so the youth actually can progress their development and maybe mitigate injuries and maintain peak fitness of our senior starters.

 

[P.D.]

Yes. And shows why continuing with some of that youth strategy can be really important even though Conte wants (and should get) mostly quick fix solutions.

Definitely, you need a good blend and as we improve we should be able to get better youngsters in. Only 1 or 2 need to make it to justify the policy as well, fair chance that the others can be shipped on at break even as long as they've had some game time.

 

[braineclipse]

Can we stop being linked with CMs now? We'd have to sell at least one before we even think about bringing one in, and this is not even considering the 2-3 CMs we have out on loan now.
Not to say Sarr is going to eventually be a starter for us, too soon to say obviously. Promising though, just wish Conte would've rotated more throughout this season so the youth actually can progress their development and maybe mitigate injuries and maintain peak fitness of our senior starters.

I agree.

I guess the point of some posters on here is that we need more creativity and press resistance in midfield. That has been an issue at times for sure.

I think we would have to sign someone rather outstanding to fix that and for that player to fit into the current system. I don't think that's happening any time soon. Another player at a similar level to PEH/Bissouma/Skipp (whoever one rates higher) wouldn't help us much at all.

We won't stop being linked to CMs though. But I think we can trust that not to be related to the club's actual plans though.

 

[billyiddo]

I think if we want to really be pushing for the top positions then it's quite important that we make a concerted effort to sign a top class CM at some point, especially if we are going to be sticking with a 2 man midfield. None of the names linked so far stand out, but then when Dembele & Wanyama arrived i didn't expect them to be as good as they ended up being, so with that in mind we've definitely had some links to players of that standing.

 

[braineclipse]

I think if we want to really be pushing for the top positions then it's quite important that we make a concerted effort to sign a top class CM at some point, especially if we are going to be sticking with a 2 man midfield. None of the names linked so far stand out, but then when Dembele & Wanyama arrived i didn't expect them to be as good as they ended up being, so with that in mind we've definitely had some links to players of that standing.

I think Bentancur is close to that level. If he can keep upping the consistency and play more often at his best level he'll be up there soon enough.

I rate PEH, but I doubt he'll get to that level. Question for me is if either Skipp or Sarr can step up to that level or if Bissouma can regain his levels from Brighton and push on from there.

If we can sign a top class CM I wouldn't be against it. But there are other areas where a top class player would make even more of a difference right now.

 

[billyiddo]

I think Bentancur is close to that level. If he can keep upping the consistency and play more often at his best level he'll be up there soon enough.

I rate PEH, but I doubt he'll get to that level. Question for me is if either Skipp or Sarr can step up to that level or if Bissouma can regain his levels from Brighton and push on from there.

If we can sign a top class CM I wouldn't be against it. But there are other areas where a top class player would make even more of a difference right now.

I'm not actually so sure about that last part - i think if i could choose one position to sign a player guaranteed to be of the highest quality CM would have the biggest impact. Obviously CB & RWB are also priorities but CM in turn improves our defensive perfomance & our ability to control matches & set the tempo

 

[braineclipse]

I'm not actually so sure about that last part - i think if i could choose one position to sign a player guaranteed to be of the highest quality CM would have the biggest impact. Obviously CB & RWB are also priorities but CM in turn improves our defensive perfomance & our ability to control matches & set the tempo

I agree with a principle that a CM can be more important with regards to those things and overall play. The impact of a highest quality CM is probably higher than at wing back or CB.

For me though that difference isn't huge. And we have better players at CM already than in other areas imo. So think the difference would be greater in other positions.

That's all a bit hypothetical of course. I don't think a highest level player is on the table in any position. If we move from highest level to very good I think the benefits of improving other areas over CM are even greater personally.

 

[AdamB]

I think Bentancur is close to that level. If he can keep upping the consistency and play more often at his best level he'll be up there soon enough.

I rate PEH, but I doubt he'll get to that level. Question for me is if either Skipp or Sarr can step up to that level or if Bissouma can regain his levels from Brighton and push on from there.

If we can sign a top class CM I wouldn't be against it. But there are other areas where a top class player would make even more of a difference right now.

Yes. Our CM options are a muddle at the moment. Very defensive in overall balance.

Agree about PEH having a ceiling, partly due to age and partly due to ability. Probably a good player to have in a team which is struggling, but I dont see as someone ever likely to dominate a game or certainly not a big game against a decent opposition. If Skipp and Sarr show over the next 12 months that they are going to be able to step up, I'd see him leaving in summer 2024. Bisouma needs to be given another 12-18 months given that at the moment he's a shadow of the Brighton Bisouma so we need to see whether that player re-emerges

 

[braineclipse]

Yes. Our CM options are a muddle at the moment. Very defensive in overall balance.

Agree about PEH having a ceiling, partly due to age and partly due to ability. Probably a good player to have in a team which is struggling, but I dont see as someone ever likely to dominate a game or certainly not a big game against a decent opposition. If Skipp and Sarr show over the next 12 months that they are going to be able to step up, I'd see him leaving in summer 2024. Bisouma needs to be given another 12-18 months given that at the moment he's a shadow of the Brighton Bisouma so we need to see whether that player re-emerges

I think the overall balance being defensive is on purpose. I think the more attacking quality should come elsewhere. Finding players that can do the job defensively in this system and be a real step up on the ball is a massive ask.

I think Hojbjerg has a ceiling. But I also think he can be a very useful player also for a team not struggling. But he needs better players around him, players that can compensate for his shortcomings. He probably won't dominate in the way you talk of, but very good teams can have several players that don't dominate.

Yeah, Bissouma seems to need time. There's a real player there, though like with Hojbjerg one with real limitations too. Hope he can find the kind of form that made us sign him.

 

[Yiddo]

I think Bissouma like a lot or our players i.e sessegnon look too scared to express themselves. I think both would shine in a more attack minded team / formation. Bissouma would be great in a 3 man midfield imo.

 

[Bishop]

Very interesting thoughts BE.

All I would expand upon is an idea that CMs have to be superior relative to the opposition whereas everyone else’s qualities should relate to those CMs.

That is, if you have the best CMs in the league, it is easier to identify who else is not performing well.

And then, if you have middling/brick CMs it all looks turgid and the team struggles particularly with possession.

If we want to challenge for the title getting in the very best CMs is where I would start.

It is hard to find players that make a difference but you don’t need a one stop shop all singing dancing player. Look what Kante operating at world class level did for Leicester and Chelsea.

For me CM is the most important area of the pitch. It connects everything together. A poorly formed CM will give you an unbalanced and poorly formed team.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[braineclipse]

Very interesting thoughts BE.

All I would expand upon is an idea that CMs have to be superior relative to the opposition whereas everyone else’s qualities should relate to those CMs.

That is, if you have the best CMs in the league, it is easier to identify who else is not performing well.

And then, if you have middling/brick CMs it all looks turgid and the team struggles particularly with possession.

If we want to challenge for the title getting in the very best CMs is where I would start.

It is hard to find players that make a difference but you don’t need a one stop shop all singing dancing player. Look what Kante operating at world class level did for Leicester and Chelsea.

The best teams tend to have the best midfielders. Then again, the best teams tend to have the best strikers, attackers, wing/full backs etc.

I do think central midfielders are very important. But there's a reason why non goalscoring central midfielders rarely are the most expensive players, goalscoring attackers are usually the most important.

Is certainly possible to build a very good team that includes one or two not outstanding midfielders. Liverpool at their best had Henderson and/or Milner playing most games. Very good players for sure, but hardly world class players. Depends on the system and style of play.

Poor CMs, or CMs that don't for the system will be a stark negative for the team. That must be avoided. But functional, good midfielders that fit the system very well can get you very far imo. And the better they fit the system, the better the players around them are the better they'll look.

As we've seen (imo) with Hojbjerg. When the team around him works he's a highly functional, very good player for us in his role. But he rarely lifts us when we're struggling. When we're struggling he looks middling.

The solution can be a great central midfielder to replace him, but the solution can also be a better functioning team around him. Both are good solutions. For me the second option seems more achievable.

 

[papaspur]

I agree.

I guess the point of some posters on here is that we need more creativity and press resistance in midfield. That has been an issue at times for sure.

I think we would have to sign someone rather outstanding to fix that and for that player to fit into the current system. I don't think that's happening any time soon. Another player at a similar level to PEH/Bissouma/Skipp (whoever one rates higher) wouldn't help us much at all.

We won't stop being linked to CMs though. But I think we can trust that not to be related to the club's actual plans though.

Of course, I miss seeing Dembele work. His retention was simply outstanding. He would always draw players in, so if he released the ball at the right moment, we had a numerical advantage and could progress vertically. As for a good passer, I know a lot of people wanted Eriksen back but for me, I think it was too risky for us and not ideal for him considering the terms he left on (poor form and effort IMO). Still another outstanding player, but I think we need someone well-rounded and who can pass. I'm fine with replacing PEH in the summer, but I don't think CM is as urgent at the moment when we have far weaker players in CB/RWB. You basically said the same in your subsequent post and I'd be surprised if the club wasn't also aligned with that in terms of their transfer strategy this winter, too.

The truth is, we're not going to get a Bellingham because we can't afford players like that. I've been saying that we need to find those highly-talented youngsters before they become monsters. Posters asking for a player of that caliber are basically saying we need to be competitive with Real Madrid and Bayern in terms of pulling power. They have the luxury of signing 16 year old players for more than we paid for Richarlison, and willing to be patient and let them develop because they actually have a long-term vision. We're stuck playing catch-up fighting over their scraps so to speak

As for Bissouma, I'm not sure what's going on with him. He's underperforming without a doubt, we all know he's a lot better than he's shown, and hopefully he knows that too, especially after seeing the younger CMs play ahead of him and do relatively well.

 

[Grays_1890]

For me CM is the most important area of the pitch. It connects everything together. A poorly formed CM will give you an unbalanced and poorly formed team.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

CM is bar far the most important role and always has been. Was maybe more so in the old 442 days but still is today

Good midfielders who shield, keep and recycle the ball are the heartbeat of any side.

 

[braineclipse]

Of course, I miss seeing Dembele work. His retention was simply outstanding. He would always draw players in, so if he released the ball at the right moment, we had a numerical advantage and could progress vertically. As for a good passer, I know a lot of people wanted Eriksen back but for me, I think it was too risky for us and not ideal for him considering the terms he left on (poor form and effort IMO). Still another outstanding player, but I think we need someone well-rounded and who can pass. I'm fine with replacing PEH in the summer, but I don't think CM is as urgent at the moment when we have far weaker players in CB/RWB. You basically said the same in your subsequent post and I'd be surprised if the club wasn't also aligned with that in terms of their transfer strategy this winter, too.

The truth is, we're not going to get a Bellingham because we can't afford players like that. I've been saying that we need to find those highly-talented youngsters before they become monsters. Posters asking for a player of that caliber are basically saying we need to be competitive with Real Madrid and Bayern in terms of pulling power. They have the luxury of signing 16 year old players for more than we paid for Richarlison, and willing to be patient and let them develop because they actually have a long-term vision. We're stuck playing catch-up fighting over their scraps so to speak

As for Bissouma, I'm not sure what's going on with him. He's underperforming without a doubt, we all know he's a lot better than he's shown, and hopefully he knows that too, especially after seeing the younger CMs play ahead of him and do relatively well.

If we stick with the midfield two we need someone that's very good defensively in that role. There's no room even for an Eriksen (hard working, but not great defensively imo).

We went for Bissouma, who isn't a great passer. When we already had PEH, Bentancur and Skipp. We needed another option for that role, we couldn't find someone that was good enough defensively and significantly better on the ball.

I think we will continue to struggle to find that as a ready made player. A younger player, taking time. I think it's possible.

Back to Sarr...

If one assumes that Conte takes at least some interest in developing younger players.

I think him getting game time now is a very good sign. Would indicate that Conte thinks he's getting there defensively at the very least. For a player that young to be getting there defensively in this system can only be a good sign. He has a fair bit of quality on the ball too of course.

Would indicate that he's taking steps in the right direction and developing well in training.

 

[Grays_1890]

Of course, I miss seeing Dembele work. His retention was simply outstanding. He would always draw players in, so if he released the ball at the right moment, we had a numerical advantage and could progress vertically. As for a good passer, I know a lot of people wanted Eriksen back but for me, I think it was too risky for us and not ideal for him considering the terms he left on (poor form and effort IMO). Still another outstanding player, but I think we need someone well-rounded and who can pass. I'm fine with replacing PEH in the summer, but I don't think CM is as urgent at the moment when we have far weaker players in CB/RWB. You basically said the same in your subsequent post and I'd be surprised if the club wasn't also aligned with that in terms of their transfer strategy this winter, too.

The truth is, we're not going to get a Bellingham because we can't afford players like that. I've been saying that we need to find those highly-talented youngsters before they become monsters. Posters asking for a player of that caliber are basically saying we need to be competitive with Real Madrid and Bayern in terms of pulling power. They have the luxury of signing 16 year old players for more than we paid for Richarlison, and willing to be patient and let them develop because they actually have a long-term vision. We're stuck playing catch-up fighting over their scraps so to speak

As for Bissouma, I'm not sure what's going on with him. He's underperforming without a doubt, we all know he's a lot better than he's shown, and hopefully he knows that too, especially after seeing the younger CMs play ahead of him and do relatively well.

To really kick on we def need better than PEH but I agree, the biggest areas for us to improve are wing back (Desperately) and LCB in my opinion. Then you look at new attacking options and then CM. Thats if you was to buy in order, but lets see because if there are options out there available I am sure Fab will spin the plates

 

[FatBloke]

Very interesting thoughts BE.

All I would expand upon is an idea that CMs have to be superior relative to the opposition whereas everyone else’s qualities should relate to those CMs.

That is, if you have the best CMs in the league, it is easier to identify who else is not performing well.

And then, if you have middling/brick CMs it all looks turgid and the team struggles particularly with possession.

If we want to challenge for the title getting in the very best CMs is where I would start.

It is hard to find players that make a difference but you don’t need a one stop shop all singing dancing player. Look what Kante operating at world class level did for Leicester and Chelsea.

I was waiting for Kante to be brought up! Every 2-man midfield could do with a Kante, Dembele, Modric, Eriksen, Scholes, Keane, etc. These are top top players.

Instead, remember when we had the likes of Mason and Bentaleb, Freund, and various others who aren't even close to that level. At the moment, we're somewhere in between. Bentancur is showing promise, Hojbjerg does a decent job most of the time, and we know Bissouma has it in him somewhere.

If you don't have the luxury of really top-class CMs but don't want to stack the midfield with a three, you've got to give them support from the surrounding players. That means wingers who can come inside and help out, CBs who can step forward and play a pass, even forwards who can drop deep. With Kulu, Romero and Kane in the side, I'm less worried about whether our two-man midfield can cope. My worry is what happens when one of those first choices is out -- as we've seen recently.

That's why we need a second passing CD on the pitch (Lenglet), and why I think Gil made such a difference in Kulu's absence. Eventually, anyway.