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OMT ××××× TOTTENHAM HOTSPURS VS Villa ×××××××

braineclipse said:
And 4 assists sounds a lot better than 0 assists from our "best player" (and primary set piece taker to boot). He was excellent at times last season and in deed our best player, but this season has been far from that, starting with pre-season, extending into the season and even into his performances from the national team going by reports. I think he's a very talented player, one I'm delighted to have at Spurs and someone who will be very important for us in years to come. But he's also just a 22 year old in his second Premie League season. Unlike Lamela he's gotten plenty of game time both of his seasons so far. I don't think it would be terrible if he started a couple of games on the bench when not in his best form. More or less a blanket statement for young players I think.

Oh and there's been plenty of calls for Lamela to be dropped, and sold...

Disagree about strength. I think Lamela would outmuscle Eriksen just about every time in a 50/50 and I think both are about strong enough although being stronger obviously wouldn't hurt them (unless it came at the expense of other qualities, something it often does)
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Goals are more important than assists. I think Eriksen has been better than Lamela. Granted neither of them have been all that, but If I had to drop one of them, Eriksen is more likely to find a killer pass or score a late winner than Lamela. If the tables were turned and Eriksen had cost £30m I believe people would be more patient like they are with Lamela and Soldado to a greater extent.

I'm not saying Eriksen shouldn't ever be dropped, but he just seems like an easy target when the entire team plays badly, let's drop the number 10.
 
Wait are people seriously having a go at Eriksen.
Eriksen has 2 goals in his last 4 league games right? Thats the same amount of goals Lamela, Lennon and Townsend got between them this season and last.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Goals are more important than assists. I think Eriksen has been better than Lamela. Granted neither of them have been all that, but If I had to drop one of them, Eriksen is more likely to find a killer pass or score a late winner than Lamela. If the tables were turned and Eriksen had cost £30m I believe people would be more patient like they are with Lamela and Soldado to a greater extent.

I'm not saying Eriksen shouldn't ever be dropped, but he just seems like an easy target when the entire team plays badly, let's drop the number 10.
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As assists by definition always lead to a goal I don't really get why goals are more important than assists...

I would have thought that Lamela getting 4 assists this season and Eriksen none would make it more likely that Lamela would find that killer pass, but alright.

I could just as easily say that if Lamela had cost only £10m people would have been much more patient with him because they wouldn't expect as much straight away. In the end stuff like this is at best speculative and I don't particularly care.
 
Modric THFC said:
Wait are people seriously having a go at Eriksen.
Eriksen has 2 goals in his last 4 league games right? Thats the same amount of goals Lamela, Lennon and Townsend got between them this season and last.
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I suppose if Ade had scored his chance one on one and scored two in two he would have been beyond criticism too?
 
braineclipse said:
As assists by definition always lead to a goal I don't really get why goals are more important than assists...

I would have thought that Lamela getting 4 assists this season and Eriksen none would make it more likely that Lamela would find that killer pass, but alright.

I could just as easily say that if Lamela had cost only £10m people would have been much more patient with him because they wouldn't expect as much straight away. In the end stuff like this is at best speculative and I don't particularly care.
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It's a cliche but scoring is the hardest thing to do, that's why strikers get paid the most more often than not.

In general, I believe Eriksen is more likely to be a match winner i.e. win us the match than Lamela either by finding a pass, from a set piece or scoring. Is that OK?

Some people are expecting more and rightly so for £30m, others (Steff even admitted as much) are being more lenient towards him because of the price tag.
 
Jurgen the German said:
It's a cliche but scoring is the hardest thing to do, that's why strikers get paid the most more often than not.

In general, I believe Eriksen is more likely to be a match winner i.e. win us the match than Lamela either by finding a pass, from a set piece or scoring. Is that OK?

Some people are expecting more and rightly so for £30m, others (Steff even admitted as much) are being more lenient towards him because of the price tag.
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In the total assist and goals column Lamela has 4, Eriksen has 3. This despite Eriksen is our primary set piece taker. You can of course think that it's more likely that Eriksen will be the match winner either by finding a pass or scoring, but you can't use the stats from this season to base that on.

I think it's pretty close between the two of them. Had Lamela been fit in the second half of last season I wouldn't have dreamed of saying that Eriksen should be dropped ahead of Lamela. Now it's a different story. For me the deciding factor right now is that Lamela's form seems to be improving whereas I'm not convinced that Eriksen's is. If I had to drop one of them, for example because Kane and Soldado should both play along with Chadli keeping his place I would thus drop Eriksen. I don't see how that's terrible. A good sub appearance or two and he would be right back in the starting line-up. Lamela was dropped to the bench against Villa, I don't see an outcry. I don't get why it would be terrible if the same thing happened to Eriksen. If I was to see him dropped I would be fully expecting that it was with a view to see him in another starting line-up within weeks. Unlike a small handful of players for us he's not been showing anything to indicate that he should be undroppable (I'm not saying that you're saying that he's undroppable, but you are saying that he shouldn't be dropped because "he's our best player").
 
I'm saying on current form he doesn't deserve to be dropped. Let's not forget in our most difficult game of the season just a few weeks ago he was our best player alongside Soldado. Of the two, I would drop Lamela. Basically Chadli is the one that shouldn't be dropped right now as he is in the best form so it's between Eriksen and Lamela. I don't think Eriksen is playing close to the level he did last season, in fact, only Chadli, Rose and Lloris have been either at the same level or better than last season, but Lamela isn't playing close to his ability also.
 
braineclipse said:
In the total assist and goals column Lamela has 4, Eriksen has 3. This despite Eriksen is our primary set piece taker. You can of course think that it's more likely that Eriksen will be the match winner either by finding a pass or scoring, but you can't use the stats from this season to base that on.

I think it's pretty close between the two of them. Had Lamela been fit in the second half of last season I wouldn't have dreamed of saying that Eriksen should be dropped ahead of Lamela. Now it's a different story. For me the deciding factor right now is that Lamela's form seems to be improving whereas I'm not convinced that Eriksen's is. If I had to drop one of them, for example because Kane and Soldado should both play along with Chadli keeping his place I would thus drop Eriksen. I don't see how that's terrible. A good sub appearance or two and he would be right back in the starting line-up. Lamela was dropped to the bench against Villa, I don't see an outcry. I don't get why it would be terrible if the same thing happened to Eriksen. If I was to see him dropped I would be fully expecting that it was with a view to see him in another starting line-up within weeks. Unlike a small handful of players for us he's not been showing anything to indicate that he should be undroppable (I'm not saying that you're saying that he's undroppable, but you are saying that he shouldn't be dropped because "he's our best player").
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This is a difficult one because I find myself in complete agreement of what you're saying.

However, I also agree with Jurgen that Eriksen is one of our genuine top quality players. You need this type playing because unless you're a Chelsea or Emirates Marketing Project you're not going to have this type of player in abundance and you need someone like him because he can produce a moment of magic out of nowhere. But of course, he hasn't really done that enough this season.

Lamella could become this type of player but hasnt really shown to be a match winner like that - yet.

What is the solution? No idea!!
 
Jurgen the German said:
I'm saying on current form he doesn't deserve to be dropped. Let's not forget in our most difficult game of the season just a few weeks ago he was our best player alongside Soldado. Of the two, I would drop Lamela. Basically Chadli is the one that shouldn't be dropped right now as he is in the best form so it's between Eriksen and Lamela. I don't think Eriksen is playing close to the level he did last season, in fact, only Chadli, Rose and Lloris have been either at the same level or better than last season, but Lamela isn't playing close to his ability also.
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Ideally, most of the time it should be the case that more than 11 players shouldn't deserve to be dropped imo. Competition for places and all that.

I think we agree that it's fairly close between the two of them? And for me at least it wouldn't be a disaster if either one of them is on the bench next game, although we differ on who we would prefer to see start.

harr1984 said:
This is a difficult one because I find myself in complete agreement of what you're saying.

However, I also agree with Jurgen that Eriksen is one of our genuine top quality players. You need this type playing because unless you're a Chelsea or Emirates Marketing Project you're not going to have this type of player in abundance and you need someone like him because he can produce a moment of magic out of nowhere. But of course, he hasn't really done that enough this season.

Lamella could become this type of player but hasnt really shown to be a match winner like that - yet.

What is the solution? No idea!!
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I rate Eriksen's talent. I don't think he's a "genuine top quality player" yet though. Question of definition, but he needs to perform more consistently to be in that category imo. I agree that at his best (last season) he was better than Lamela has shown at any time during his Spurs career. If that's what we're going by on deserving who should play (given a direct choice between the two) it's Eriksen. I think there's more to it than that though.
 
braineclipse said:
Ideally, most of the time it should be the case that more than 11 players shouldn't deserve to be dropped imo. Competition for places and all that.

I think we agree that it's fairly close between the two of them? And for me at least it wouldn't be a disaster if either one of them is on the bench next game, although we differ on who we would prefer to see start.
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Yes I do agree. It may come across like I'm saying Eriksen has been giving us 8 out of 10's and Lamela has been giving 6's but there's not that a great deal between them, I just Eriksen has been slightly better. I give him the benefit of the doubt as harr says mainly because we don't have an abundance of "top" players and he is the closest we have to one (outfield player wise). Obviously you have to come to a point no matter how good x player is, if he's playing that badly then he should be dropped/subbed, but teams in general do give the best players in the team more game time for the most part and give them more time to find form.
 
Nice shot of Harry's goal and the celebrations ...

[video=youtube;KMO2Mnegj1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMO2Mnegj1I#t=25[/video]
 
wiziwig said:
Nice shot of Harry's goal and the celebrations ...

[video=youtube;KMO2Mnegj1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMO2Mnegj1I#t=25[/video]
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Brilliant. Cheers for posting.

Not the slightest bit embarassed seeing myself do the 'Yiddo' dance
 
Phew!

Some questions for those who watched live:

- did the match really turn on the Benteke Red Card? Were we creating good chances in the second half before that incident?
- when Kane came on, did we look more threatening going forward before the red card?
- on this showing can Soldado and Kane work well? I have read/heard that in the second half he became more anonymous..
- again before the Red Card, what effect on our play did Lamela start having when he came on (if any)?
 
I had it on but I was cooking at the same time.

We put some nice attacks together in the first half but in the second not so much, it was very bitty, no quality from either side until the red card, then for a bit after that they were the better side playing on the break and we didn't seem to change our approach at all.

Kane honestly had 2 very good chances within 60 seconds of coming on.

I think Soldado tired and didn't get as much of the ball as the more advanced man, not sure if this was just his positioning, his fatigue or villas more compressed tactic after the sending off. I think they can but there wasn't any moment in this game you could point to as proof, Soldado linked things very well in the deeper role with Ade in the first half as well.

Personally I don't think Lamela did much at all, equally anonymous as Eriksen, slalomed down a few blind alleys and looked really good lining up a free kick before wasting it.
 
braineclipse said:
I suppose if Ade had scored his chance one on one and scored two in two he would have been beyond criticism too?
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No, but there would at least be something positive to say about his contribution other than he leaves the penalty area empty to run the channels so there is no goal threat in the box while earning more money in a week than most people earn in 5 years.
 
We weren't particularly good going forward after Benteke got sent off. Impatience maybe.
 
- did the match really turn on the Benteke Red Card? Were we creating good chances in the second half before that incident?
We had created some decent chances in the first half, but also looked like we could concede at any time. The game was getting a bit nasty before the Benteke incident as the ref was weak and it resulted in a very poor half of football.

- when Kane came on, did we look more threatening going forward before the red card?
Kane started brightly, but he and the whole side just didn't seem able to cobble anything together of much quality. Odd flashes but nothing amazing.

- on this showing can Soldado and Kane work well? I have read/heard that in the second half he became more anonymous..
A lot of players became anonymous in the second half. Don't think they looked brilliant together.

- again before the Red Card, what effect on our play did Lamela start having when he came on (if any)?
A couple of nice touches in some one touch moves which broke down. TBH i don't feel he did much more than Eriksen other than give us a bit more of a physical presence. He did swing in the corner for the second goal though IIRC
 
- it didn't look like we could win it with benteke on. Even with him off we didn't look like we were going to score
- very scrappy when Kane came on and lamela retreated back to cb and no eriksen, I thought we didn't look like we were creating anything useful
- yes a nod towards Soldado and Kane. Hope to fit eriksen and lamela but those two need to learn to play together better
- yes more presence in their final third considering villa now we packing the bus and everyone getting physical, lamela showed no fear. No comparable to when eriksen was on and villa leaving a lot of space to attack...
 
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