OMT Tottenham vs Sheffield United

[Finney Is Back]

I see positives as I see the players do almost the right thing But the decision making fails... lamela all game vs united as an example and today when he delayed the pass and hit Moura (poor from Moura). Kane had 3 goals chalked off which are chances if he does his job better or the pass is better
Defensively we look solid then crumble ... badly

The 3 goals chalked off....

one a fortunate deflection off of Moura
Another he was free because he was offside by a big margin
The other a nothing cross only creating a chance because of Kane’s obvious push.

if we’re clinging to those as ‘chances created’ then we are truly fudged

 

[milo]

The 3 goals chalked off....

one a fortunate deflection off of Moura
Another he was free because he was offside by a big margin
The other a nothing cross only creating a chance because of Kane’s obvious push.

if we’re clinging to those as ‘chances created’ then we are truly fudged

Yep. How many times did we put Henderson under pressure?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yep. How many times did we put Henderson under pressure?

Oh is that who was in goal for Sheffield Utd?

could’ve been Jordan Henderson and would’ve made no difference.

 

[milo]

We need a proper captain, have done for years.

English football

 

[thfcsteff]

So what should he do with the squad he has inherited and had for 5 months?

Five months? Try eight! Nine if we're going to be ungenerous, but no need for that. So let's say eight.

Do you accept that he came in saying he was happy with the squad? Saying he felt he could do things with it? He is being paid not as a long-term planner but a short-term fixer, someone with the experience and know-how to change things in a short amount of time. That is his rep, that was the gamble. And we're seeing that the gamble was wrong. He had apparently been doing his homework for months prior, so I'd expect him to have a better plan than playing on the counter, especially with this side.

Right now, with what we have, I'd be looking at something like this...

Lloris


Sanchez Dier Davies

Skipp Ndombele

Bergwijn Lo Celso Son

Dele
Kane

Subs: Gazza, Lucas, Aurier, Vertonghen, Toby, Sissoko, Lamela


or if you want, Verts for Davies.



If you're worried about left-side workrate, Lamela instead of Sonny.

I want to know if Ndombele and LoCelso can work together.
I want to know if Dele can still be Dele when in behind Kane and with a playmaker behind him.
I want to know if Skipp can sit in that deep role moping up and quickly feeding Ndombele and LoCelso.

Of course there are holes there. We're not playing with FBs and we're relying on wide covering players, but I'd be interested to see how opposed would shut down all the potential angles of creativity there. If they sit on Bergwijn and Son, that leaves Dele, LoCelso and Ndombele. It is adventurous, but given the fact we do not have FBs and lack balance, why not play to our strengths? Could this side be any worse defensively than they were today?

Anyway, there's my shout...it would get us some answers in a season where we have little to play for.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think that lady Poch might be my ideal woman, it certainly hasn't helped me get over the loss of man Poch.

It is actually unbelievably...errr...(inside voice)

 

[thfcsteff]

The 3 goals chalked off....

one a fortunate deflection off of Moura
Another he was free because he was offside by a big margin
The other a nothing cross only creating a chance because of Kane’s obvious push.

if we’re clinging to those as ‘chances created’ then we are truly fudged

Absolutely.
Add to that the standard of crossing as we continued to just push the ball wide and sling it across; pitiful.

 

[Bullet]

Dreadful. Torpid. Porous. AVB-like.

 

[milo]

Dreadful. Torpid. Porous. AVB-like.

As I saw Papercut say on Twitter the other week, we got AVB hoping that he was the next Mourinho and we've now got Mourinho turning into AVB.

 

[Baleforce]

Do you accept that he came in saying he was happy with the squad? Saying he felt he could do things with it? He is being paid not as a long-term planner but a short-term fixer, someone with the experience and know-how to change things in a short amount of time. That is his rep, that was the gamble. And we're seeing that the gamble was wrong. He had apparently been doing his homework for months prior, so I'd expect him to have a better plan than playing on the counter, especially with this side.

Right now, with what we have, I'd be looking at something like this...

Lloris


Sanchez Dier Davies

Skipp Ndombele

Bergwijn Lo Celso Son

Dele
Kane

Subs: Gazza, Lucas, Aurier, Vertonghen, Toby, Sissoko, Lamela


or if you want, Verts for Davies.



If you're worried about left-side workrate, Lamela instead of Sonny.

I want to know if Ndombele and LoCelso can work together.
I want to know if Dele can still be Dele when in behind Kane and with a playmaker behind him.
I want to know if Skipp can sit in that deep role moping up and quickly feeding Ndombele and LoCelso.

Of course there are holes there. We're not playing with FBs and we're relying on wide covering players, but I'd be interested to see how opposed would shut down all the potential angles of creativity there. If they sit on Bergwijn and Son, that leaves Dele, LoCelso and Ndombele. It is adventurous, but given the fact we do not have FBs and lack balance, why not play to our strengths? Could this side be any worse defensively than they were today?

Anyway, there's my shout...it would get us some answers in a season where we have little to play for.

I'd be more worried about the right side than the left there.

A lot of responsibility for Skipp too.

Looks pretty suicidal all in all.

Well done for trying though

 

[Baleforce]

As I saw Papercut say on Twitter the other week, we got AVB hoping that he was the next Mourinho and we've now got Mourinho hoping he's the next AVB.

just me?

 

[Pirate55]

Yes I can.
I just did.
Look, I know the rep I have here and I know you're not shy to tell everyone what Poch wasn't doing, but let's look at Mourinho's tenure thus far. Where is it going? Where is he taking us?

He told us he was very happy with the squad. I have maintained from day one that he will want players Levy might've said were within our reach but he eventually will not get. So where does it leave us? Tell me where YOU see we are going?

The ONLY silver lining to this defeat is that it might be the clean slate he needs to build next season, but my question remains WHAT is he building?

You know what I think about your objectivity about Poch. He somehow lucked into a great XI. They were young hungry and talented. His training methods made them into a formidable machine.

But
He won nothing when we were arguably the best team in England for a couple of years
He couldn’t instill a winning mentality meaning we lost all the big crucial games - my particular bugbear was only taking one point off Leicester in two games in their title winning year
His transfer record is simply appalling. If you ignore the players bought for him (Dier and Deli) and the ones he had personal working knowledge of ( Toby and Wanyama) which players did he buy if the 26 were a success? Probably only Son. His recent spunking of over 100m on players like NDombele, Sessegnon and LoCelso look like largely being overpriced failures like Sissoko, Sanchez, Moura and Aurier. So far only Lo Celso gets a pass.
As a supposed successful coach, he was seemingly totally incapable of developing players outside our first XI - Jansen, the NTwins, Foyth, Gazza,
Again, as a supposed wonderful coach, in five and a half years, only Winks came through our youth ranks - so many promising youngsters never kicked on under him.
Finally, the quality of the football he played in his last 12 months was simply dire - how many games did we go without an away win?
For those Poch Cultists, please look at the reality of the situation and the totally unbalanced squad he left behind before heaping blame for the current situation on Mourinho.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'd be more worried about the right side than the left there.

A lot of responsibility for Skipp too.

Looks pretty suicidal all in all.

Well done for trying though

Hahaha, it is certainly "adventurous" and a bit Ossie-Like to say the least, and maybe Sissoko in for Skipp, but we cannot keep playing with FBs who cannot cross or defend, so find another way.

 

[thfcsteff]

You know what I think about your objectivity about Poch. He somehow lucked into a great XI. They were young hungry and talented. His training methods made them into a formidable machine.

But
He won nothing when we were arguably the best team in England for a couple of years
He couldn’t instill a winning meteorology meaning we lost all the big crucial games - my particular bugbear was only taking one point off Leicester in two games in their title winning year
His transfer record is simply appalling. If you ignore the players bought for him (Dier and Deli) and the ones he had personal working knowledge of ( Toby and Wanyama) which players did he buy if the 26 were a success? Probably only Son. His recent spunking of over 100m on players like NDombele, Sessegnon and LoCelso look like largely being overpriced failures like Sissoko, Sanchez, Moura and Aurier. So far only Lo Celso gets a pass.
As a supposed successful coach, he was seemingly totally incapable of developing players outside our first XI - Jansen, the NTwins, Foyth, Gazza,
Again, as a supposed wonderful coach, in five and a half years, only Winks came through our youth ranks - so many promising youngsters never kicked on under him.
Finally, the quality of the football he played in his last 12 months was simply dire - how many games did we go without an away win?
For those Poch Cultists, please look at the reality of the situation and the totally unbalanced squad he left behind before heaping blame for the current situation on Mourinho.

I do have one question for you.
The post of mine you responded to said the following -

"Yes I can.
I just did.
Look, I know the rep I have here and I know you're not shy to tell everyone what Poch wasn't doing, but let's look at Mourinho's tenure thus far. Where is it going? Where is he taking us? He told us he was very happy with the squad. I have maintained from day one that he will want players Levy might've said were within our reach but he eventually will not get. So where does it leave us? Tell me where YOU see we are going?
The ONLY silver lining to this defeat is that it might be the clean slate he needs to build next season, but my question remains WHAT is he building?"

Was your reply meant for a post I might've made in another subject area?
Because unless I am missing something, the carpet doesn't match the drapes.

 

[Pirate55]

I do have one question for you.
The post of mine you responded to said the following -

"Yes I can.
I just did.
Look, I know the rep I have here and I know you're not shy to tell everyone what Poch wasn't doing, but let's look at Mourinho's tenure thus far. Where is it going? Where is he taking us? He told us he was very happy with the squad. I have maintained from day one that he will want players Levy might've said were within our reach but he eventually will not get. So where does it leave us? Tell me where YOU see we are going?
The ONLY silver lining to this defeat is that it might be the clean slate he needs to build next season, but my question remains WHAT is he building?"

Was your reply meant for a post I might've made in another subject area?
Because unless I am missing something, the carpet doesn't match the drapes.

You are seemingly lambasting Mourinho ( again!) for problems he inherited and were not of his making. You have previously said iirc that the earliest time to judge Mourinho is at the end of next season at the earliest. Until then, it would be helpful to dial down the criticism of him and lay it fairly where it belongs - the players from the Poch regime.

 

[thfcsteff]

You are seemingly lambasting Mourinho ( again!) for problems he inherited and were not of his making. You have previously said iirc that the earliest time to judge Mourinho is at the end of next season at the earliest. Until then, it would be helpful to dial down the criticism of him and lay it fairly where it belongs - the players from the Poch regime.

Allow me to ask.
Did Mourinho pick the side today?
Did Mourinho pick the side 9 days ago?
Has he been picking the side since November?
Did he say he was happy back then?
Has he had a three month covid19 break to at least get some fitness back (I would absolutely concede this is not ideal at all in terms of prep but it did allow some players to at least get fit)?

As for the bold-face above, you are absolutely right and I apologise. I made a mistake there.

 

[90291Spur]

The performance and the result today were AWFUL. everyone bears responsibility. But this is an industry where the manager is key, and for some reason mou has us defending like traffic cones. And has us mentally brittle so that a VAR decision deflates us.

None of this is good enough.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The performance and the result today were AWFUL. everyone bears responsibility. But this is an industry where the manager is key, and for some reason mou has us defending like traffic cones. And has us mentally brittle so that a VAR decision deflates us.

None of this is good enough.

So what’s changed from the last 18 months under Poch when we couldn’t defend either ?

 

[Mr Gogolak]

I'm not having a go at anyone but I was hoping we'd get past the Pochettino/Mourinho debate at some point. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what Pochettino would have done. The bottom line is, he's gone and we have to move on.

What I do find a lot more worrying is the fact that our performances aren't getting any better, despite the fact that we're more or less back to full strength. I refrained from posting after the West Ham game because I didn't want to rain on other people's parade but I can't say I was too impressed with our performance here either. As others have pointed out, our 'gameplan' seems to be to sit deep and bank on quick counters to make a difference. Whenever we keep on the ball for more than 20 seconds, it feels like we're never going to score.

To make things worse, when we do get the first goal, I take it that our forwards are asked to defend more, which means our counter-attacks are even fewer and further between.

I was sitting on the fence when Mourinho was appointed and while it's been a strange and difficult season, I don't think he's winning any new supporters here. He was supposed to have taken a step back to reflect on the game (and since he seems fairly articulate, that bode well) but, if anything, this team looks even more out of touch with modern-day football than his Manchester United team was.

Sheffield proved yesterday that all you have to do to beat us is sit deep and wait for a chance / poor piece of defending. That doesn't take talent, just a bunch of committed players.

What has me even more worried though, is that it could very well be that Mourinho isn't the problem here. Some of these players have been here for a long, long time and maybe they need a change of scenery to rediscover their best form. That would be most unfortunate, not because they're impossible to replace (bar Kane, maybe) but because the transfer market will probably take years to get back to what it was, if it ever does. I can't see anyone paying what Levy will expect from Ali or Moura at the moment.

It's true that the balance within this squad is so poor, it's not even funny but I'm not sure we'll be able to address the situation in the short term. If I were a betting man, I'd have a punt on Mourinho being gone by the end of next season but I have to admit that the whole thing makes for a sad picture at the moment.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not having a go at anyone but I was hoping we'd get past the Pochettino/Mourinho debate at some point. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what Pochettino would have done. The bottom line is, he's gone and we have to move on.

What I do find a lot more worrying is the fact that our performances aren't getting any better, despite the fact that we're more or less back to full strength. I refrained from posting after the West Ham game because I didn't want to rain on other people's parade but I can't say I was too impressed with our performance here either. As others have pointed out, our 'gameplan' seems to be to sit deep and bank on quick counters to make a difference. Whenever we keep on the ball for more than 20 seconds, it feels like we're never going to score.

To make things worse, when we do get the first goal, I take it that our forwards are asked to defend more, which means our counter-attacks are even fewer and further between.

I was sitting on the fence when Mourinho was appointed and while it's been a strange and difficult season, I don't think he's winning any new supporters here. He was supposed to have taken a step back to reflect on the game (and since he seems fairly articulate, that bode well) but, if anything, this team looks even more out of touch with modern-day football than his Manchester United team was.

Sheffield proved yesterday that all you have to do to beat us is sit deep and wait for a chance / poor piece of defending. That doesn't take talent, just a bunch of committed players.

What has me even more worried though, is that it could very well be that Mourinho isn't the problem here. Some of these players have been here for a long, long time and maybe they need a change of scenery to rediscover their best form. That would be most unfortunate, not because they're impossible to replace (bar Kane, maybe) but because the transfer market will probably take years to get back to what it was, if it ever does. I can't see anyone paying what Levy will expect from Ali or Moura at the moment.

It's true that the balance within this squad is so poor, it's not even funny but I'm not sure we'll be able to address the situation in the short term. If I were a betting man, I'd have a punt on Mourinho being gone by the end of next season but I have to admit that the whole thing makes for a sad picture at the moment.

end of next season would be 18 months playing time
If it doesn’t improve he will be gone I agree