• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

****OMT- TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR VS Chelski**********

DubaiSpur said:
Still seething, and I gave myself twelve hours to get over it.

We cannot keep falling asleep and tying our bootlaces to the back of Gareth Bale's fudging shirt.

I've never felt as angry at the lethargy of a performance as I did(and still do) at our performance yesterday.

We won, hooray. We played like donkeys on dinosaur sterilizer, fudging boo.

Sigh.

If the team's losing motivation at this stage of the season there's really nothing anyone can do about it, and that terrifies me more than any amount of bad luck, refereeing ineptitude or woeful finishing.

----------------Lloris------------------

Walker----Daws---------Verts----Naughton

----------Parker---------Hudd---------

Holtby------------Bale--------------Siggy

------------------Ade-----------------

Subs: Friedel, Caulker, Benny, Dembele (if fit)/Livermore, Carroll, Lennon (if fit)/Dempsey, Defoe

Prediction: depends, really. If we show up not giving a fudge, then 10-0 Chelsea with John Terry scoring a hat-trick and then shagging every single Spurs WAG while looking their partners in the eye and laughing noiselessly.

If we decide to play like we care again, then it is anyone's game, though 2-1 seems appropriate with Bale and Verts for us versus Mata for them.
Click to expand...

I can totally get your anger......hope your not taking out on your nearest and dearest......lol

Is it wrong to hope harzard/mata/oscar get minor knocks today ruling them out......

dont get me wrong id prefer to beat them without them saying we had injuries........then the sight of A coles face after the goal that wasnt over the line in the FA semi final comes to mind......

Amazingly I wouldn't put it past this team to pull off a worldie on wednesday only to 'guff it' against Stoke/Sunderland.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Still seething, and I gave myself twelve hours to get over it.

We cannot keep falling asleep and tying our bootlaces to the back of Gareth Bale's fudging shirt.

I've never felt as angry at the lethargy of a performance as I did(and still do) at our performance yesterday.

We won, hooray. We played like donkeys on dinosaur sterilizer, fudging boo.

Sigh.

If the team's losing motivation at this stage of the season there's really nothing anyone can do about it, and that terrifies me more than any amount of bad luck, refereeing ineptitude or woeful finishing.

----------------Lloris------------------

Walker----Daws---------Verts----Naughton

----------Parker---------Hudd---------

Holtby------------Bale--------------Siggy

------------------Ade-----------------

Subs: Friedel, Caulker, Benny, Dembele (if fit)/Livermore, Carroll, Lennon (if fit)/Dempsey, Defoe

Prediction: depends, really. If we show up not giving a fudge, then 10-0 Chelsea with John Terry scoring a hat-trick and then shagging every single Spurs WAG while looking their partners in the eye and laughing noiselessly.

If we decide to play like we care again, then it is anyone's game, though 2-1 seems appropriate with Bale and Verts for us versus Mata for them.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a question of motivation. I can't see how that is possible. Seems more likely to me that it's the nerves playing a trick on our players, as it seems to have done with the supporters in the stands.

Luckily the Chelsea game will be slightly different, Chelsea will be the favourites and as long as it's 0-0 we can play a game that suits us a bit better where we can sit back and counter attack a bit.

We've generally seemed much better in the games against better sides this season anyway.
 
From Spurs official facebook page...

"Here are Andre's views on Saturday's 1-0 win against Chelsea.

--- > http://bit.ly/138oFnV"

:-k
 
Think especially if Dembele is out and Lennon is also struggling we should be playing the 4-3-3 that looked good in the first half against Wigan.

So the defence as expected, with Benny at left back. Hudd picking up the ball from the back, and Holtby and Parker infront of him. Dempsey or Sig on the left and Bale on the right, with Defoe up top.

Potentially Sig instead of Holtby in the middle, and certainly on for Parker if we are chasing a goal.

I think with that team, we can do them. Chelsea have been on a ridiculous run and fatigue hasn't seemed to be an issue at all, but they've had winnable games and now they are coming up with a real hard run of fixtures. Hopefully the wheels finally come off for them, although they've been rotating well and that means it will be an extremely tight game.
 
braineclipse said:
I don't think it's a question of motivation. I can't see how that is possible. Seems more likely to me that it's the nerves playing a trick on our players, as it seems to have done with the supporters in the stands.

Luckily the Chelsea game will be slightly different, Chelsea will be the favourites and as long as it's 0-0 we can play a game that suits us a bit better where we can sit back and counter attack a bit.

We've generally seemed much better in the games against better sides this season anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree with the second and last bits, but there shouldn't be any nerves. Really shouldn't. They've seen what taking their eyes of the ball can do, last season being a pristine example. The players could have been forgiven for doing so last season, because they had a manager whose mind had wandered elsewhere and whose attentions were nowhere near focused on the team. This season, they have a manager who speaks to them regularly, supports them, defends them in the press (all of them, as a collective, as opposed to 'Me missus could have scored that'), and sends them out with a tactical plan designed to counter the opposition.

They have a brand new training ground, brand new fitness regime and the chance to achieve a record points total. They've also been hardened to the possibility of failure by seeing its consequences play out over the summer.

There shouldn't be nerves. If there still are, then we're doomed.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I agree with the second and last bits, but there shouldn't be any nerves. Really shouldn't. They've seen what taking their eyes of the ball can do, last season being a pristine example. The players could have been forgiven for doing so last season, because they had a manager whose mind had wandered elsewhere and whose attentions were nowhere near focused on the team. This season, they have a manager who speaks to them regularly, supports them, defends them in the press (all of them, as a collective, as opposed to 'Me missus could have scored that'), and sends them out with a tactical plan designed to counter the opposition.

They have a brand new training ground, brand new fitness regime and the chance to achieve a record points total. They've also been hardened to the possibility of failure by seeing its consequences play out over the summer.

There shouldn't be nerves. If there still are, then we're doomed.
Click to expand...


The bolded is the reason that there will be nerves though. They know that they could still lose out. They know what is at risk.

The only way to gain composure is by being successful. We didn't (well sort of) do that last season, so this season we will be more nervous, not less.
 
Last edited:
DubaiSpur said:
I agree with the second and last bits, but there shouldn't be any nerves. Really shouldn't. They've seen what taking their eyes of the ball can do, last season being a pristine example. The players could have been forgiven for doing so last season, because they had a manager whose mind had wandered elsewhere and whose attentions were nowhere near focused on the team. This season, they have a manager who speaks to them regularly, supports them, defends them in the press (all of them, as a collective, as opposed to 'Me missus could have scored that'), and sends them out with a tactical plan designed to counter the opposition.

They have a brand new training ground, brand new fitness regime and the chance to achieve a record points total. They've also been hardened to the possibility of failure by seeing its consequences play out over the summer.

There shouldn't be nerves. If there still are, then we're doomed.
Click to expand...

Nerves don't disappear just because you know the consequences of failure. No reason to think that failing last season hardened them.

Think of anything you're nervous of doing, or something you have been nervous of in the past. Public speaking for example, knowing that if you get nervous it will be worse for you as you're more likely to make a mistake and knowing that the result of that will be negative for you will do nothing to help with your nervousness and might very well make it worse. Failing once, say breaking into a stutter, forgetting major points and being perceived as a bit of an idiot by your audience most likely won't harden you for the next time.

There are nerves for sure, I'm quite convinced all players involved in a fight for something important at this point of the season will feel the nerves. That's to be expected, how you deal with it is the issue.
 
If karma exists, after the agonies we were subjected to at Chelsea's hands last season, we'll win this and Chelsea will miss out on CL qualification.

But karma doesn't exist, does it?

......Does it?
 
braineclipse said:
Nerves don't disappear just because you know the consequences of failure. No reason to think that failing last season hardened them.

Think of anything you're nervous of doing, or something you have been nervous of in the past. Public speaking for example, knowing that if you get nervous it will be worse for you as you're more likely to make a mistake and knowing that the result of that will be negative for you will do nothing to help with your nervousness and might very well make it worse. Failing once, say breaking into a stutter, forgetting major points and being perceived as a bit of an idiot by your audience most likely won't harden you for the next time.

There are nerves for sure, I'm quite convinced all players involved in a fight for something important at this point of the season will feel the nerves. That's to be expected, how you deal with it is the issue.
Click to expand...

I've been nervous before. Not public speaking, but goalkeeping. I've played competitive games and let a stupidly easy shot bounce over my shoulder and roll agonizingly into the net. And I've gone on to put in nightmarish performances after those sorts of things.

The feeling you get when you know you could have done better, and when you know you've let your team-mates down, is one of the worst ones you can have.

But in a way, it's helped me. When I was playing indoors in a university league, I had one of the very worst games you will ever see a goalkeeper have. At half time, the score was 6-2. At full time, 12-5. And that in a league where conceding more than 3 was viewed as an outlier, something that didn't happen very often. It wasn't bad defending, or bad possession play. It was me, letting shots slip left, right and center, getting beaten to high balls, cowering behind my line, staying rooted in goal when I needed to come out and rushing out when I needed to stay in. It was me failing on every level.

My team-mates were frank with me: it was the worst performance they ever saw a keeper put in. I was depressed, and my confidence was utterly shattered.

But a couple of days after that, my team captain took me out and had me dive around a half-frozen, slushy field saving shots for an hour in the December cold. The same the next week, and the week after. I was determined to never put in a performance as bad as that again.

Since then, I've had a lot of bad days. I'm not a great goalkeeper, not by any means. But I've always consoled myself that no matter how bad my performance was, it wasn't as bad as that game at university.

It hardened me, I think. I've managed to put things in perspective, recognize that bad games happen and move on. I've in effect seen the worst case scenario, so I'm more prepared for it.

It's also why I think the players shouldn't be overly nervous. They've been here before, and failed before. It can't get worse than last season. And considering that pretty much all admitted that they're still adapting to the new style of play, it's not like they've burdened themselves with extremely ambitious aims and anything below those aims would be a failure either. They've accepted that this is essentially a 'take what you can get' season. They're also blessed with a supportive manager who focuses on the collective, lessening individual responsibility.

So why are they putting in performances like this?

Maybe you (and Spursalot) are right, and maybe nerves are unavoidable. I'd just like to know why they put in performances like the one against Southampton, when last season we were facing an even worse situation (having thrown away 3rd and been left clinging to fourth with four games to play) and managed to put in some good performances in the last four games. If the nervousness logic applies, last season would have been worse, no?
 
jimmyb said:
If karma exists, after the agonies we were subjected to at Chelsea's hands last season, we'll win this and Chelsea will miss out on CL qualification.

But karma doesn't exist, does it?

......Does it?
Click to expand...

It does but unfortunately Abramovich owns it...
 
I don't understand how it can't get worse than last season.


In my mind failing in two seasons in a row is worse than failing one season. The nerves would be cumulative. If you continue to fail, season after season it would not harden you to the failure, you would come to expect the failure.

Which would lead to nerves.


However we're probably just all overanalysing the whole thing.
 
Last edited:
DubaiSpur said:
I've been nervous before. Not public speaking, but goalkeeping. I've played competitive games and let a stupidly easy shot bounce over my shoulder and roll agonizingly into the net. And I've gone on to put in nightmarish performances after those sorts of things.

The feeling you get when you know you could have done better, and when you know you've let your team-mates down, is one of the worst ones you can have.

But in a way, it's helped me. When I was playing indoors in a university league, I had one of the very worst games you will ever see a goalkeeper have. At half time, the score was 6-2. At full time, 12-5. And that in a league where conceding more than 3 was viewed as an outlier, something that didn't happen very often. It wasn't bad defending, or bad possession play. It was me, letting shots slip left, right and center, getting beaten to high balls, cowering behind my line, staying rooted in goal when I needed to come out and rushing out when I needed to stay in. It was me failing on every level.

My team-mates were frank with me: it was the worst performance they ever saw a keeper put in. I was depressed, and my confidence was utterly shattered.

But a couple of days after that, my team captain took me out and had me dive around a half-frozen, slushy field saving shots for an hour in the December cold. The same the next week, and the week after. I was determined to never put in a performance as bad as that again.

Since then, I've had a lot of bad days. I'm not a great goalkeeper, not by any means. But I've always consoled myself that no matter how bad my performance was, it wasn't as bad as that game at university.

It hardened me, I think. I've managed to put things in perspective, recognize that bad games happen and move on. I've in effect seen the worst case scenario, so I'm more prepared for it.

It's also why I think the players shouldn't be overly nervous. They've been here before, and failed before. It can't get worse than last season. And considering that pretty much all admitted that they're still adapting to the new style of play, it's not like they've burdened themselves with extremely ambitious aims and anything below those aims would be a failure either. They've accepted that this is essentially a 'take what you can get' season. They're also blessed with a supportive manager who focuses on the collective, lessening individual responsibility.

So why are they putting in performances like this?

Maybe you (and Spursalot) are right, and maybe nerves are unavoidable. I'd just like to know why they put in performances like the one against Southampton, when last season we were facing an even worse situation (having thrown away 3rd and been left clinging to fourth with four games to play) and managed to put in some good performances in the last four games. If the nervousness logic applies, last season would have been worse, no?
Click to expand...

Although your example is also from football I don't think you can directly compare the pressure in a university game with the pressure PL footballers are under.

You felt that your setback in time strengthened you, something I think a lot of people will feel after tough times. From that to say that our players should have gotten mentally tougher from their setback that was only a year ago I think there's a big gap. How people react and not least how long it will take someone to get past something and use it to make them stronger will vary greatly. Some might also never get that positive reaction to a difficult setback.

Since you mention that you're a goalkeeper. If those poor performances and mistakes when under pressure consistently made players mentally stronger, speaking in a time frame of around one year then Gomes should be mentally one of the strongest characters in our squad now. He's not though, and he's out on loan as a result of that. Compare that to how Lloris handles the mistake he made earlier this season in the EL, the next game he played there was essentially no negative reaction. He had the mental tools to deal with that, if those tools are innate, learned by experience or thought to him by his previous coaches a different, and interesting question, but probably not one for this thread.

By saying that "last season should have been worse, so this season shouldn't be a problem" you're essentially saying that emotional reactions should be logical, they are frequently not though. Just because it's not logical to be stressed and nervous doesn't make it any less the case.

I made another post on this in the Ade thread, going through our midfielders and forwards that started the Southampton game, in short I think we had very few players that are mentally tough in the starting line-up in that game, particularly of our attacking players.
 
Modric THFC said:
According to AVB in his post match Press Conference Parker wasnt risked so he'd be fit for Chelsea. Lennon and Dembele both have muscle injuries and likely wont start.

--------------Lloris------------------
Walker--Dawson--Vertonghen--Ekotto
------------Huddlestone-------------
---------Parker-----Holtby-----------
Bale-----------------------Sigurdsson
-------------Adebayor---------------
Click to expand...

That is the team we have to start with really if Lennon and Dembele are out. Hopefully Lennon can make the bench as would be useful for the last half hour or so if we need pace or a goal.

Holtby and Parker will give us plenty of energy in the middle which we will need with having to close down Hazard, Mata and Oscar a lot and Hudd can hopefully release it to Sig and Bale early. They should be less compact that Southampton so Bale should have space to run.

Ade put in a lot of energy yesterday and we will need someone who can win some headers and an out ball as they will have a lot of possession.
 
braineclipse said:
Although your example is also from football I don't think you can directly compare the pressure in a university game with the pressure PL footballers are under.

You felt that your setback in time strengthened you, something I think a lot of people will feel after tough times. From that to say that our players should have gotten mentally tougher from their setback that was only a year ago I think there's a big gap. How people react and not least how long it will take someone to get past something and use it to make them stronger will vary greatly. Some might also never get that positive reaction to a difficult setback.

Since you mention that you're a goalkeeper. If those poor performances and mistakes when under pressure consistently made players mentally stronger, speaking in a time frame of around one year then Gomes should be mentally one of the strongest characters in our squad now. He's not though, and he's out on loan as a result of that. Compare that to how Lloris handles the mistake he made earlier this season in the EL, the next game he played there was essentially no negative reaction. He had the mental tools to deal with that, if those tools are innate, learned by experience or thought to him by his previous coaches a different, and interesting question, but probably not one for this thread.

By saying that "last season should have been worse, so this season shouldn't be a problem" you're essentially saying that emotional reactions should be logical, they are frequently not though. Just because it's not logical to be stressed and nervous doesn't make it any less the case.

I made another post on this in the Ade thread, going through our midfielders and forwards that started the Southampton game, in short I think we had very few players that are mentally tough in the starting line-up in that game, particularly of our attacking players.
Click to expand...

I did immediately think about Gomes after posting that, to be honest. And you're right, different people react to pressure or setbacks in different ways. You also make a good point about the mental strength of some of our lads.

But it does get me wondering sometimes. I'm not a Premier League footballer: hell, the Isthimian League is probably too high for me. But I, an uninspiring amateur goalkeeper, managed to turn a setback into a mental 'push', if you will. Now, Premier League footballers have to jump many, many hurdles to get to where they are: they have to deal with nerves and mental stress on a weekly basis, and have to be prepared for a career filled with crowd, media and professional scrutiny.

To do this, they have the help of full-time psychologists, supportive managers and coaching staff, and as a fall-back, their friends and family.

Everything seems to point to them being able to turn defeats into strengthening experiences much more easily than the average Joe.

But of course, that is analyzing emotion using logic, something you quite rightly pointed out is disingenuous.

Point withdrawn. :)
 
Mumorn said:
i think Chelsea are going to rip us to shreds personally.

can see about 3 or 4-1
Click to expand...

They are away at Man U today with 1 day less rest and played in midweek for the last few weeks which could come into our favour late on if we pass it well and make them run but yes they are quite capable of destroying us and have tremendous determination and team spirit. Very difficult team to beat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back