***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Swansea City***

[parklane1]

brick it was wet, traveling home soaked was not the best of experiences but another 3 points made it worth it. Great to see Wanyama back and Alli with a BIG smile on his face again.

 

[diego_maradona]

I agree with this. His reckless moves this season can definitely be understood from a young player in his first season. I'm quite certain both Alderweireld and Vertonghen would have looked much worse if playing for us at 21.

However we shouldn't overlook the mistakes Sanchez makes.

I love this type of signing myself. Genuine quality and one of the most promising youngsters in his position in world football. That he will make mistakes is a given considering the type player we've signed. A promising young starlet. That we must develop and give minutes to.

Got me thinking about Sessegnon and the fact that ourselves and United are after him. We are both top 6 clubs who harboured realistic title ambitions with our respective squads at the beginning of the season. We really should be targeting establish champions league quality signings in our position. Players ready to win titles today. Leave these players for the likes of Southampton to develop and then sell on for £75m when they have reached top 6/champions league level. We have never really been in this particular market before. And when we signed Bale and Alli we were not regularly finishing in the top 4 or competing for league titles.

I'm not saying this is correct, this is a debate about whether we should (money aside) be targeting the very best, talented youngsters, who we will have to accept will make mistakes. Or established seasoned players who could do the job today with less likelihood of mistakes.

Personally, I love us being a club who gives opportunity to these talents and tbh, we have to in order to survive and keep punching above our weight. But with each young signing there will always be a greater element of risk and likelihood of mistakes which will probably lead to us missing out on titles today. We are close to having a title winning side.

Even the Mahrez v Zaha v Malcolm v Richarlison debate. Mahrez represents the best player today but possibly not the greatest value in the future. The question is if you are a Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, United who do pay top money for players and their wages, do you go near signings like Sessegnon at this age or wait til he become more of a sure thing and pay big money when the time comes? We rarely see top young talent breakthrough at the best clubs because its difficult to maintain that push to be the very best but allow the youngsters time to grow and make mistakes. Pochettino has done an extraordinary job in balancing this but ultimately at this stage we remain trophy-less.

 

[DevonSpur]

Got me thinking about Sessegnon and the fact that ourselves and United are after him. We are both top 6 clubs who harboured realistic title ambitions with our respective squads at the beginning of the season. We really should be targeting establish champions league quality signings in our position. Players ready to win titles today. Leave these players for the likes of Southampton to develop and then sell on for £75m when they have reached top 6/champions league level. We have never really been in this particular market before. And when we signed Bale and Alli we were not regularly finishing in the top 4 or competing for league titles.

I'm not saying this is correct, this is a debate about whether we should (money aside) be targeting the very best, talented youngsters, who we will have to accept will make mistakes. Or established seasoned players who could do the job today with less likelihood of mistakes.

This is the (almost) unique position we are in, though - we can't put the money factor aside when considering our transfer options/strategy. We simply cannot compete with the financial big hitters for the ready-made players that would take us to the next level so we have to take punts on players like Ali, Janssen, (to a lesser extent) Son, Sessengnon (hopefully!?!).etc before they become polished or start to show what they are capable of on the bigger stage and hopefully more will pay off for us than don't. If we leave those types of players for the likes of Southampton then I would think we are back to the days of picking up the occasional Davids or VdV - proven players that maybe don't have too many miles left on the clock (or any real sell-on value) - which was great at the time but I personally think would set us back as a club in the longer run both in financial and potential trophy terms whilst the likes of City, Utd, Chelsea & Liverpool will continue to throw huge chunks of cash at these younger talents when/if they mature. As I said, we just can't compete with that strategy at the moment.

Great post, BTW, Diego.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Why not both?

We operate the way we operate for a reason, given our fairly unique position in things its the only way we can reliably fill our team with quality.

Doing what we do is sustainable, profitable even, and all the while the team and squad gets better and better.

In the stadium thread (I think) I used Sanchez as an example of what I think will likely happen going forwards. Instead of us suddenly switching to massive buys of the finished article, I think we will likely continue our policy of buying quality youth - but go up a level there.

Lets not forget, Sanchez was £40m. Could you imaging the response if I said even just two years ago "Guys, we are going to buy a 20yr old Columbian CB from Ajax for £40m"?

So, my opinion, is we will deal in more Sanchez'. We will get more recognised and coveted talent.

AND - we will go for that odd player of genuine star quality as well to supplement these moves. I think we kind of have to to keep up with the pack we are chasing. I dont expect any £150m Coutinho type moves, rather those moves that are something of a bargain - we are Spurs after all...

 

[diego_maradona]

Why not both?

We operate the way we operate for a reason, given our fairly unique position in things its the only way we can reliably fill our team with quality.

Doing what we do is sustainable, profitable even, and all the while the team and squad gets better and better.

In the stadium thread (I think) I used Sanchez as an example of what I think will likely happen going forwards. Instead of us suddenly switching to massive buys of the finished article, I think we will likely continue our policy of buying quality youth - but go up a level there.

Lets not forget, Sanchez was £40m. Could you imaging the response if I said even just two years ago "Guys, we are going to buy a 20yr old Columbian CB from Ajax for £40m"?

So, my opinion, is we will deal in more Sanchez'. We will get more recognised and coveted talent.

AND - we will go for that odd player of genuine star quality as well to supplement these moves. I think we kind of have to to keep up with the pack we are chasing. I dont expect any £150m Coutinho type moves, rather those moves that are something of a bargain - we are Spurs after all...

Which is fine. But we must accept that he will make rash decisions and mistakes as he is still learning, and that may cost us points and ultimately success.

I love developing these talents. But eventually the goal has to be for us to stop being a feeder club. We can't accept, "we are Spurs after all" and wont pay wages or transfer fees. Once the move into the stadium is complete, I will want us to start competing for these big names against the big boys. Our owners need to start thinking about being a side that is not simply a business but one who is in it to win titles. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching Spurs regardless of whether we are good or rubbish, but there must be an end goal. We can't simply continue to be the club that buys the Sessegnon's of the world but occasionally go for the likes of Coutinho/De Bruyne/Alexis etc.

I'd like us to do both. No one wants to miss out on top upcoming talents, but the challenge to develop and challenge for titles has been a problem for big sides for a long time. We've almost had the "luxury" of not competing at that end of the scale for so long that we were the perfect club to buy those types of buys.

 

[braineclipse]

Which is fine. But we must accept that he will make rash decisions and mistakes as he is still learning, and that may cost us points and ultimately success.

I love developing these talents. But eventually the goal has to be for us to stop being a feeder club. We can't accept, "we are Spurs after all" and wont pay wages or transfer fees. Once the move into the stadium is complete, I will want us to start competing for these big names against the big boys. Our owners need to start thinking about being a side that is not simply a business but one who is in it to win titles. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching Spurs regardless of whether we are good or rubbish, but there must be an end goal. We can't simply continue to be the club that buys the Sessegnon's of the world but occasionally go for the likes of Coutinho/De Bruyne/Alexis etc.

I'd like us to do both. No one wants to miss out on top upcoming talents, but the challenge to develop and challenge for titles has been a problem for big sides for a long time. We've almost had the "luxury" of not competing at that end of the scale for so long that we were the perfect club to buy those types of buys.

I agree fully. Unless something dramatic happens we will still have significantly less money than our competitors in the foreseeable future.

I think we must continue to develop both academy and young talented players to reach the success we all want. But as you say there must be a balance and we can't be a feeder club. It's possible to sell the occasional starter and maintain success, but it can't be too many and only very rarely your stars.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Which is fine. But we must accept that he will make rash decisions and mistakes as he is still learning, and that may cost us points and ultimately success.

I love developing these talents. But eventually the goal has to be for us to stop being a feeder club. We can't accept, "we are Spurs after all" and wont pay wages or transfer fees. Once the move into the stadium is complete, I will want us to start competing for these big names against the big boys. Our owners need to start thinking about being a side that is not simply a business but one who is in it to win titles. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching Spurs regardless of whether we are good or rubbish, but there must be an end goal. We can't simply continue to be the club that buys the Sessegnon's of the world but occasionally go for the likes of Coutinho/De Bruyne/Alexis etc.

I'd like us to do both. No one wants to miss out on top upcoming talents, but the challenge to develop and challenge for titles has been a problem for big sides for a long time. We've almost had the "luxury" of not competing at that end of the scale for so long that we were the perfect club to buy those types of buys.

I accept that fully, I embrace it. Same as with other talents we have developed. I would hope that by buying more from the Sanchez end of that "potential" scale we effectively mitigate much of that risk anyway.

When you buy these players well there isnt even a great deal of development required, just opportunity.

And the better we do, both as a club and with these types of players, the more likely we are to attract and attain them. It becomes a self fulfilling cycle.

What I cant accept is the idea we are in a position to compete for the top talents. Honestly, barring some rather fortuitous circumstances (which I would fully expect to take advantage of) we just cannot compete - even with the new stadium.

We will never spend £50m on a fullback. £75m on a CB. £100m+ on a striker. And on the day we even attempt a bid like that, someone like City will come along and bid higher.

That is true now, and it will be true when we occupy the new stadium too.

I thnk we can go up a tier or two within our own buying model, but I dont think we can compete with the money at the other clubs - and THAT is where that level of player ends up going.

We need to continue to go for the the next big thing before it is quite realised. Once it breaks through its out of our reach.

 

[diego_maradona]

I accept that fully, I embrace it. Same as with other talents we have developed. I would hope that by buying more from the Sanchez end of that "potential" scale we effectively mitigate much of that risk anyway.

When you buy these players well there isnt even a great deal of development required, just opportunity.

And the better we do, both as a club and with these types of players, the more likely we are to attract and attain them. It becomes a self fulfilling cycle.

What I cant accept is the idea we are in a position to compete for the top talents. Honestly, barring some rather fortuitous circumstances (which I would fully expect to take advantage of) we just cannot compete - even with the new stadium.

We will never spend £50m on a fullback. £75m on a CB. £100m+ on a striker. And on the day we even attempt a bid like that, someone like City will come along and bid higher.

That is true now, and it will be true when we occupy the new stadium too.

I thnk we can go up a tier or two within our own buying model, but I dont think we can compete with the money at the other clubs - and THAT is where that level of player ends up going.

We need to continue to go for the the next big thing before it is quite realised. Once it breaks through its out of our reach.

Why can Liverpool? Right now they make the most of their "history".

A good comparison:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-klopp-similarities-differences-a8010996.html

The last available accounts show the Anfield club had a turnover of £302m, a wage bill of £208m and in the summer of 2017 a net spend of £42m, having also been more than willing to pay around £130m more for Virgil van Dijk and Naby Keita.

That is considerable power, also beyond Tottenham’s. They aren’t prepared to pay money like that, because they don’t have figures like that.

Tottenham have a turnover of £210m, a wage bill of £100m, and a net profit from the last transfer window of £10.2m as they resolutely stick to a rigorous budget that has seen some of their players complain about the level of both signings and wages.

And yet, while Liverpool’s figures allow them to pay those wages that many Spurs players would so want and give them a distinctive advantage in the market, there is another side to this specific case. Those very figures point to why Spurs are so attractive, why intelligent players like Fernando Llorente have joined them, because they are vastly out-performing such figures.

Quite a difference right now. We will have more transfer funds (than what we have now), but their global appeal far exceeds ours right now. Is it then just that their owners have suddenly become willing to dip into their pockets right now?

Liverpool are an odd one. They are very similar to us. Argument is that whilst they have just dropped £75m on Van Dijk and £50m on Keita, it is about to be offset with sale of Coutinho.

But it is the challenge of these clubs to become elite. The decisions the clubs are making in the transfer market and on the training ground are paying dividends, hence competing against sides with greater finances, but ultimately its a money game.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

If you look at most of Liverpools moves, its basically following our model.

Their successes - Suarez, Coutinho? They are Modrics and Bales to a tee.

They havent actually done a great deal of big spending, really. Its the wages where they really differ, their bill being significantly higher than ours. And THAT is one thing that we can change going forward.

 

[P.D.]

https://twitter.com/x/status/948332058119753728

Everyone tonight must of been soaked by the time they got inside.

Swansea offered nothing until the pitch started being a factor. We kept at it, and the second goal was huge relief in the end.

If the rain had continued as in the first half, there was a good chance the game may have been abandoned. I see some were moaning about the pitch but considering they play rugby on it and believe me the amount of rain was extreme, it held up well.

Sanchez was a silly boy and then a lucky boy not to get another red.
Ayew should have fallen over Lloris.
Including the first goal...the luck certainly is flowing our way.

We weren't brilliant, but against the current Swansea team you don't need to be.

Just a footnote. Dele done another one of his silly dives down by the corner flag, he just can't help himself. There were more than a few that weren't happy about it. (Spurs fans)

I didn't realise parts of the crowd weren't covered, fair play to those who must have been absolutely soaked.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

brick it was wet, traveling home soaked was not the best of experiences but another 3 points made it worth it. Great to see Wanyama back and Alli with a BIG smile on his face again.

Were you down the front @parklane1 ? A few moved up that back second half...was some spare seats.
Most of us got soaked before getting inside though. I had a touch of the Harry Kane man flu as it was, it's was not weather to be out in...so glad I stayed over as 200 mile drive home was the last thing I wanted. (Im paying for it now though).......on the flip side I'm glad it eased off, as to make the trip and it get abandoned would have been hard to take.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Can I hear a few boos when Alli gets the ball? Did a coachload of Burnley fans turn up?

He's arguably one of the most unpopular players in the PL. Fans hate him because he dives and because he's a dirty fudger. And because he's quality of course but I'd hate him if he didn't play for Spurs.

 

[parklane1]

Were you down the front @parklane1 ? A few moved up that back second half...was some spare seats.
Most of us got soaked before getting inside though. I had a touch of the Harry Kane man flu as it was, it's was not weather to be out in...so glad I stayed over as 200 mile drive home was the last thing I wanted. (Im paying for it now though).......on the flip side I'm glad it eased off, as to make the trip and it get abandoned would have been hard to take.

Near the front yes, we did not move back as there were about 20 of us together and we were allready soaking so we did not bother. We drove back and shared the driving but by the time we had dropped everyone off it was time for breakfast. As i say there is usually a bunch of us and we always keep ourselves amused.