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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Juventus ***

Cochise said:
Always.

Then again, I've made these predictions before (Bale and Modric) and they have come true.
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We’re doing alright, mate. Keep the faith - we’ll get there. I’ve had a really good feeling about the FA Cup all season.
 
Robspur12 said:
I don’t believe Poch was to blame. He had his best team out there and he subbed Dier for Lamela. I am no tactical expert but I am not sure who should have been replaced. Our leading scorers and game changers were on the pitch. To bring on Moura who do you take off? While it was 2-1 we were still in the tie so to take off a defender or Dembele off for another offensive player may have cost us another away goal which is worth double of course.. We were sucker punched by a combination of poor chance conversion and lack of concentration at the back.
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Llorente on sooner.
Once it became clear how narrow they had reverted, and how often we'd be able to get the ball in a bit of space out wide, I would have liked to see Fernando on before the 87th minute.
 
Mikey10 said:
We’re doing alright, mate. Keep the faith - we’ll get there. I’ve had a really good feeling about the FA Cup all season.
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We have to go all in for that. 3rd or 4th and the FA Cup should be the aim and the players should want it.
 
galeforce said:
Thoroughly depressed, self inflicted, crazy naivety.

To concede that first goal, with its emotional weight, and not keep the ball away from them and neuter any momentum is ridiculous, make a sub, fake an injury, complain about the ball, anything, just kill it for 5 mins.
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Next year they will know better.
 
JerusalemMan said:
Llorente on sooner.
Once it became clear how narrow they had reverted, and how often we'd be able to get the ball in a bit of space out wide, I would have liked to see Fernando on before the 87th minute.
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It’s a difficult one. I like Llorente but to bring him on in place of Alli is a big gamble especially as Alli was playing well.
 
galeforce said:
We are a very good football team, but we’ve still not learned when to turn the football off.
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Didn’t Toby say something like “we learned to play like men” after the Dortmund game. I think tonight showed that we’re still a little shy on that score.
 
Robspur12 said:
It’s a difficult one. I like Llorente but to bring him on in place of Alli is a big gamble especially as Alli was playing well.
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True, and it's more about an opinion of mine which is after the fact.
But it does seem that with Alli's preference for driving centrally and trying to tease balls through, against Juventus when they were defending a lead we could have removed him sooner. They are specialists at closing games down, retreating back and blocking the way through.
I don't think Alli yet could be trusted against such an opponent to be the key to that lock.
 
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We have been fantastic in the CL this season and it takes a few years of experience in the competition to manage games like that. But how long are our players going to put up with being a 'nearly' club, especially when they see lesser players at rival clubs earning twice as much? If we don't win anything this season can anyone see us keeping this squad together? It would be nice to think that we could as this team has the potential to be great.
 
Hootnow said:
When did I say we were a mentally fragile team?

I was just about to reply to Jurgen but I might as well put it here. I'd prefer not to get into this all again as I've had long discussions on this in the past and its 1am where I am now.

But we have improved mentally. Massively. The Man Utd game was a very recent example. Even let;s say 5-6 years ago. I'd have spent much of that game terrified about the inevitable onslaught, the inevitable collapse. Yet I had full confidence in the team that we would go on and win. Of course, I wasn't sure we would win. Anything can always happen, a sending off, lucky goal, great subs by the opposing mabager, whatever. But I was confident that we'd see out the game. And we did. Confidently and competently. That is a huge leap in our mental status. It wasn't a victory on the ropes either. We really saw it out.

But as I've tried to say above, winning individual league games is very different to crunch knock out ties or real season changing league games. I've said in the past it is no coincidence that our 2 worst performances in the league during the Leicester season were the only 2 games we actually had the opportunity to leap frog Leicester into first place, rather than roaring along from a safe distance. It is no coincidence that we conceded 4 goals for the only time all season when we played Chelsea in the SF, even when they had dropped 2 of their best players onto the bench. And it is no coincidence that we've lost more European knockout ties than we've won in the past 4 years. There's a touch of the Arsenals about it in the past few seasons, when they get smashed in the first leg of some European tie, come roaring back in the 2nd tie and then somehow inevitably end up stopping the scoring just one short of what they actually need to bring it back. It happened just a few too many times for it to be a coincidence.

It is all if if if at this margin. We can't keep falling back on ifs.

Like I said, I know this won't be a popular view on here. But it is my view. I've said I love watching us play, I think we're great. I will remember this team, whether we win trophies or not. But again as I've said, progress is not linear always and I hope we don't end up looking back at this team as Leverkusen fans must look back on their early 2000s team that nearly won the treble and ended up winning nothing.

How is it a soundbite for the media? Like I said, this is an Italian player, playing for an Italian club. He has won it all basically, one of the best defenders in the world. Has no link with the English media. What possible reason could this man have to put out a 'soundbite'? He is clearly speaking the truth, what he actually believes. This isn't an Arsenal player or a Chelsea fan just trying to put us down in the media. Why would he care about the English league or British media and be trying to hit soundbites?
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IIRC we also had the chance to go top last season when we played Bournemouth in the early kick off game on a Saturday and drew 0-0 and served up one of our worst performances of the season. Like you say, we’ve improved a lot mentally but when it really comes to the crunch games and moments we are still lacking that composure and mental toughness to get us over the line.
 
My only real criticism is the team - management and side - were not ready to react quickly to a change in the pattern of the game. That is what this side can learn from this bitter result.

What makes it so frustrating is the game was so winnable. Playing a league game we'd have seen that out. We weren't prepared to deal with that CL level of quality and didn't react fast enough. 60 mins, they need 2 goals, and make a 2 subs which put them on the front foot. Before we knew what was happening the game was lost.

In hindsight, we should have reacted. Got men behind the ball, dropped deeper and made some subs, but we had been in the ascendancy moments earlier and all game.

Beyond being ready to react to their subs and change, we simply can't let in 2 goals a game in both ties and expect to progress.

The performance was excellent otherwise. Some poor defending and game management aside we were by far the better team.
 
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Cochise said:
I've been seriously frustrated by the way we have played against Huddersfield and Palace. We took the mindset that we had against them into the match today, expecting Juve to cause us as few problems as those two teams did.

Our forwards might be tinkled with the defenders, but they have to take a look at themselves because a team like Liverpool (yeah that's right, I'm gonna bring them into it), would've finished Juve off over the two legs.
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I disagree completely. Scoring one goal at home having drawn 2-2 away should be enough to get you into the next round. We didn't exit the competition due to poor attacking over the two legs, we exited due to naive defending.
 
balesleftboot said:
We have been fantastic in the CL this season and it takes a few years of experience in the competition to manage games like that. But how long are our players going to put up with being a 'nearly' club, especially when they see lesser players at rival clubs earning twice as much? If we don't win anything this season can anyone see us keeping this squad together? It would be nice to think that we could as this team has the potential to be great.
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We are what the players make us, yes we buy them, but we finish where their performances take us.
 
galeforce said:
We are what the players make us, yes we buy them, but we finish where their performances take us.
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They have taken us out of the hardest group beating a favourite for the cup along the way. The players got done tonight. On wards and certainly upwards
 
This one fudging hurts.

But in the end, it would have fudging hurt no matter when we went out - now, quarter-final, semi-final, whenever. Because we were the better team in this game - and we would have been the better team in any of those games as well.

That's what hurts like a fudging claymore through the chest.

We were the better team. And we threw it away because we lost our legs and lost our heads for the briefest moment in time - which is all Juventus needed to make us pay for our only lapses.

That pain would have been there regardless of when we went out. But you know what? I much prefer the pain of fudging losing despite being the better side to the pain of losing because we're simply, irredeemably sh*t.

And I challenge anyone here to truly, honestly say differently. Which would you prefer? Ask yourself that, deep in your heart, and the answer will emerge - cloudy, maybe tinged with the bitterness of tonight, but as unmistakeable as ever.

We've come a long way.

And days like today - pain like this, tells us that we're closer to the end of a very long journey than we are to its beginning.

Chiellini came out post-match and said that what we were lacking was that little spark - that moment, that trophy or bonding experience that would give us the nous we're missing. He pointed out that brilliant football would not always win you games - that you needed that spark to win in these highest, most exalted of stages when the pressure is on and the moments arrive. In his eyes, Juve used all their nous, all their trophies, all their years of relentless winning to beat us when it mattered.

We need that.

More than ever, we need that. We need to **win** something - no more excuses, no more deflections. Win, so we know what winning feels like. That will be what will lift us past moments like these. We have a wonderful chance to do so with the FA Cup - we need to *win* that.

But, other than that, all we can do is take the pain. And know that we are closer to the end of a very long road than we are to the beginning. Which is something that Poch, for all his flaws in terms of in-game management, has done for us - mightily, and at times single-handedly.

This hurts because of our brilliance. Not in spite of it.

And that matters.
 
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