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***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR FC V fulham...Sat 29th (today FFS!) 8pm - BTW HAPPY BIRTHDAY FERNADEZ'S OLDEST KID***

Bedfordspurs said:
Out thought and out fought
They attacked with numbers until they get the 2 goal advantage (another deflection from the edge and a shocker from our captain for the day in goal).
We created nothing pretty much all game but did get a wonder strike from Kudus
Another game where the defence looked lost and the attack looked none existent
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Was it a game where the lack of a passer in midfield plus no Romero made it really stodgy?

I'll watch it back at some maybe.
 
Infuriating today how we kept on persisting with playing it out wide and crossing - Fulham weren't particularly compact in the middle, and often Porro could've either cut inside to create trouble or found Bergvall or whoever else was lurking around in the middle. Bergvall is good at progressing the ball, but never got it because we're so one tracked minded about chucking it out on the flanks. So many times. And every goddamned time out on the flank and a brick cross into the box. Why? We've done that in so many games now, same with the fudging throw ins, and it doesn't work.

Sick of us being so one dimensional.
 
Bishop said:
Was it a game where the lack of a passer in midfield plus no Romero made it really stodgy?

I'll watch it back at some maybe.
Click to expand...

It was a game where you could clearly see that we have no idea how to try and create anything besides getting it wide and crossing. The players looked directionless. The naivety and mistakes defensively were symptomatic (for me) of a team who simply don't know quite what they're doing from one week to the next, and yes, as has been the case for most of the season, a lack of passer killed us albeit Frank doesn't appear to want passers so even if he had one I am not sure he'd have a system which accomodated one (or dare I say it, a couple). The goal -a great strike by Kudus- in the right-hand channel- came because of the only clever pass from the middle I saw all game - courtesy of Bergvall. Having got that goal, and with Bergvall looking really good and Muani/Richy starting to wear Fulham down, Frank decided to haul off both Bergvall and Richy for Odobert and Xavi. It was as though he refused to read the game state and instead went with pre-planned subs. Of course perhaps there was a physical reason and maybe both players had hit the wall -who knows. Bentancur for Pahlinha was a good sub for sure. Call me a snob, but every time we get to the last 5 mins praying for a Danso long-throw to scrimp us a point, I scream inside (I won't tell you what I scream). Dinner party was the way to go mate...
 
Daisuk said:
Infuriating today how we kept on persisting with playing it out wide and crossing - Fulham weren't particularly compact in the middle, and often Porro could've either cut inside to create trouble or found Bergvall or whoever else was lurking around in the middle. Bergvall is good at progressing the ball, but never got it because we're so one tracked minded about chucking it out on the flanks. So many times. And every goddamned time out on the flank and a brick cross into the box. Why? We've done that in so many games now, same with the fudging throw ins, and it doesn't work.

Sick of us being so one dimensional.
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It's pathetic. fudging pathetic. Yes 'the squad isn't great' blah blah, but we have players who can play football and we're not doing that!!!!!
 
thfcsteff said:
It was a game where you could clearly see that we have no idea how to try and create anything besides getting it wide and crossing. The players looked directionless. The naivety and mistakes defensively were symptomatic (for me) of a team who simply don't know quite what they're doing from one week to the next, and yes, as has been the case for most of the season, a lack of passer killed us albeit Frank doesn't appear to want passers so even if he had one I am not sure he'd have a system which accomodated one (or dare I say it, a couple). The goal -a great strike by Kudus- in the right-hand channel- came because of the only clever pass from the middle I saw all game - courtesy of Bergvall. Having got that goal, and with Bergvall looking really good and Muani/Richy starting to wear Fulham down, Frank decided to haul off both Bergvall and Richy for Odobert and Xavi. It was as though he refused to read the game state and instead went with pre-planned subs. Of course perhaps there was a physical reason and maybe both players had hit the wall -who knows. Bentancur for Pahlinha was a good sub for sure. Call me a snob, but every time we get to the last 5 mins praying for a Danso long-throw to scrimp us a point, I scream inside (I won't tell you what I scream). Dinner party was the way to go mate...
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Fully agreed mate. Even though you're mixing the subs a bit. Just for clarity, not having a go. Bergvall was subbed for Sarr, the Bentancur, Xavi and Odobert sub was a bit earlier.

To me we lost a lot when Bergvall want off. Him dropping deeper after the 3 man sub was really useful. We were decent for a bit before that 3 man sub too, but after Bergvall came off we were back to struggle ball.
 
Bishop said:
Was it a game where the lack of a passer in midfield plus no Romero made it really stodgy?

I'll watch it back at some maybe.
Click to expand...
To me yes. To me at least was positive to see Bergvall and Gray got a start. But very much looked like a 4-3-3 with Palhinha holding and Gray and Bergvall in box to box roles, but box to box without getting on the ball much.

Back 4 with no Romero, Palhinha deepest in midfield. Neither Gray or Bergvall dropping deep much in buildup.

Got the ball forward with long passes at times.

Confidence with the two early goals obviously also a big factor. The second gifted by Vicario and that was really poor, but we also looked so vulnerable whenever Fulham attacked in that first half. Far from solid.

The period from fairly early in the second half (to me wasn't quite from kick off, but we improved) and until Bergvall went off wash decent.
 
Robbo said:
Spurs...fans?
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Honestly I think there are so many facets that are fudged. It always starts from the top, I'm curious to see if it gets better or worse with Levy gone.

I don't think Frank is the right manager for a club like Spurs (but in reality probably few are :D). Our fans don't help, as demonstrated last night and the atmosphere is constantly terrible - yes the team should lift the fans but when struggling that's when the fans are needed most and ours just don't show enough support in these instances. And then yes, our squad needs major surgery as has been said for some time but for some weird reason it only seems to be now the reality is accepted.

I don't know how all of this gets fixed but it is likely going to take quite some time. Good job we are renowned for our patience:D....
 
Daisuk said:
Infuriating today how we kept on persisting with playing it out wide and crossing - Fulham weren't particularly compact in the middle, and often Porro could've either cut inside to create trouble or found Bergvall or whoever else was lurking around in the middle. Bergvall is good at progressing the ball, but never got it because we're so one tracked minded about chucking it out on the flanks. So many times. And every goddamned time out on the flank and a brick cross into the box. Why? We've done that in so many games now, same with the fudging throw ins, and it doesn't work.

Sick of us being so one dimensional.
Click to expand...
I admittedly haven't yet watched the match but let's assume they didn't play for width, how were we supposed to progress the ball? We don't have passers in midfield, so it would likely move forward very slowly, bit by bit by which time the opposition would be nice and set and ready to repel us. It's not like when we do eventually get to the box there's any intricate play or clever vision to break through.

Again I haven't watched the match but it sounds like more of the same that we've seen all season (and in truth for many seasons). We somewhat try to play big team football but without the players truly capable of doing it. I don't see how this situation significantly improves without improving the squad. Some will say the coaching and yeah the coaching, tactics and system could 100% be doing better but ultimately that better would need to be getting absolutely 100% out of these players because frankly they ain't that good.

There are certain key attributes the squad is missing and it makes us incredibly unbalanced imo in terms of player profiles, it's borderline incompetent but then I remember how many different managers and even DoFs we've had over the last 5 years and I can't say that it being shambles in terms of squad development is at all surprising to me. This is what should happen when you look at all the brick that's gone on.
 
braineclipse said:
To me yes. To me at least was positive to see Bergvall and Gray got a start. But very much looked like a 4-3-3 with Palhinha holding and Gray and Bergvall in box to box roles, but box to box without getting on the ball much.

Back 4 with no Romero, Palhinha deepest in midfield. Neither Gray or Bergvall dropping deep much in buildup.

Got the ball forward with long passes at times.

Confidence with the two early goals obviously also a big factor. The second gifted by Vicario and that was really poor, but we also looked so vulnerable whenever Fulham attacked in that first half. Far from solid.

The period from fairly early in the second half (to me wasn't quite from kick off, but we improved) and until Bergvall went off wash decent.
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You say we didn't look solid would that partially be because of the pairing of Bergvall and Gray didn't offer much in that respect in midfield? Not targeting them but just from reading what you said that seems like a reasonable proposition?

Also again terms of possession, did wine of them need to drop in? It kind of sounds like we still need a dictator or tempo setter to get us going from deep. I'm going to watch this game tonight with the benefit of hindsight so it'll be interesting to see what I notice.
 
Bishop said:
Again I haven't watched the match but it sounds like more of the same that we've seen all season (and in truth for many seasons). We somewhat try to play big team football but without the players truly capable of doing it. I don't see how this situation significantly improves without improving the squad. Some will say the coaching and yeah the coaching, tactics and system could 100% be doing better but ultimately that better would need to be getting absolutely 100% out of these players because frankly they ain't that good.
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Getting 100% out of them? Like Marco Silva did with this list of world beaters?

Leno, Tete, Andersen, Bassey, Sessegnon, Berge, Iwobi, Wilson, King, Chukwueze, Jiménez
 
Bishop said:
I admittedly haven't yet watched the match but let's assume they didn't play for width, how were we supposed to progress the ball? We don't have passers in midfield, so it would likely move forward very slowly, bit by bit by which time the opposition would be nice and set and ready to repel us. It's not like when we do eventually get to the box there's any intricate play or clever vision to break through.

Again I haven't watched the match but it sounds like more of the same that we've seen all season (and in truth for many seasons). We somewhat try to play big team football but without the players truly capable of doing it. I don't see how this situation significantly improves without improving the squad. Some will say the coaching and yeah the coaching, tactics and system could 100% be doing better but ultimately that better would need to be getting absolutely 100% out of these players because frankly they ain't that good.

There are certain key attributes the squad is missing and it makes us incredibly unbalanced imo in terms of player profiles, it's borderline incompetent but then I remember how many different managers and even DoFs we've had over the last 5 years and I can't say that it being shambles in terms of squad development is at all surprising to me. This is what should happen when you look at all the brick that's gone on.
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I pretty much agree with all of that, and I don't disagree about using width per say, more about how we always chuck it into the mixer when we get it out there, rather than perhaps look to mix it up a bit. Yesterday, Porro could've played the ball to more centrally placed Kudus and Bergvall on many occasions, who are of course both capable of beating a man and creating havoc, but he went for one poor cross after another instead. It gets very predictable. We could and should involve more people from in field once we get it out there instead of always crossing.
 
tommysvr said:
Getting 100% out of them? Like Marco Silva did with this list of world beaters?

Leno, Tete, Andersen, Bassey, Sessegnon, Berge, Iwobi, Wilson, King, Chukwueze, Jiménez
Click to expand...
I think it's fair to say Marco Silva does reach close to optimum level with the players he has...that was like us in the Poch days and never since.

Ideally that's what you want and if you have well balanced it's works great but I would rather just have good players rather than trying to find this perfect Messiah coach who gets every last drop out of the payers because we've searching for that since Poch and we haven't found him yet.

I like Silva and he's someone I actually wanted post Poch instead of Mourinho but I don't know if things would be any different with him as our coach and our same type of squad.
 
Bishop said:
I think it's fair to say Marco Silva does reach close to optimum level with the players he has...that was like us in the Poch days and never since.

Ideally that's what you want and if you have well balanced it's works great but I would rather just have good players rather than trying to find this perfect Messiah coach who gets every last drop out of the payers because we've searching for that since Poch and we haven't found him yet.

I like Silva and he's someone I actually wanted post Poch instead of Mourinho but I don't know if things would be any different with him as our coach and our same type of squad.
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So what’s your actual point? We a 15th-ish team and need to sign 11 new players?
 
The squad is not a top 6 squad. I did not think Frank was the correct man at the time.

What I said when he did arrive he’d need to get this mob performing above the sum of its parts to get near the top of the table.

We have some good young players who in time may come good and maybe not. Apart from Kudus and VDV the rest of our squad is pretty average.

For some reason when they pull a spurs shirt on our fan base think they are world beaters . Add to that missing Kulu and Maddison that hurts because they are two of our best players. Muani is our best forward. He’s been here five minutes.

Frank needs windows to address this.
This is a failure on clubs part i think our transfer activity has been to weighted towards young talent we hope will come good. Also middling players we hope to step up. Look at Richy and Solanke big fees ish for average prem players .

Lots of little problems at Spurs that have left us in this position.
 
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