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[SpurMeUp]

I’m just in shock the excuses are all out for him
He has experienced players to use, and he also has less experienced ones
This is a managerial decision on who he picks and why

You’re shocked we’re not doing better? With creative players out and from 17th last season, what are you expecting?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You’re shocked we’re not doing better? With creative players out and from 17th last season, what are you expecting?

I’m expecting the manager to have a plan
It’s his job
We brought 2 additional creative players this summer
And we create much much less
your taking as though we had a fully fit squad every season which no team has
The manager therefore should have a plan, it is his job after all
Maybe, just maybe it’s why he only won 2 games at home this year at Brentford too. It’s possible he doesn’t know how to create a plan to play attacking football and relies on player brilliance.
I have heard he had better attacking players at Brentford but still and the same outcome… so maybe, just maybe, it’s the manager.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Fans have a right to expect
We pay our money to see a high quality product
The issue is of course that it may not be them at and that’s the variable
I also think you have to ask what is the expectation . I think it’s just progress each year, that’s all for me but others may disagree

Honestly, I think that is what creates the bricky atmosphere in our ground. We don’t have a right to expect a high quality product. You pay for your season ticket, you have the right to go and watch 19 games a season where, as a fan, you should be supporting the team. There are no guarantees beyond that even with high ticket prices.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Honestly, I think that is what creates the bricky atmosphere in our ground. We don’t have a right to expect a high quality product. You pay for your season ticket, you have the right to go and watch 19 games a season where, as a fan, you should be supporting the team. There are no guarantees beyond that even with high ticket prices.

Don’t get guarantees mixed with expectation
They are very very different things

It’s called the Premier League and we are claiming in all levels to be a top club (not fans), and are charging fans to attend a premium product. Therefore expecting a premium product is fair.

Support is different, I agree. That’s very subjective and I’ve mad many comments on the past about our fan base and the lack of a siege mentality

 

[SpurMeUp]

I’m expecting the manager to have a plan
It’s his job

Of course he has a plan. To create a strong foundation and stop shipping goals. Which is how we started under Frank. Now we are back to conceeding too many goals. Two steps forward, one step back. You can't put those two goals we conceeded to Fullham at Franks door can you?

We brought 2 additional creative players this summer

I'd say we bought one 'ready-made' creative player and another youth prospect. Simons can be more than we've seen, but he's nowhere near Kulu or Maddison yet.

And we create much much less

See above. 1 player added of note, 3 down from last season. We have had a more stable defence tbf. Thought we really missed Romero yesterday. Danso seems to be well apprecaited, but there is drop in quality, especially in possession.

your taking as though we had a fully fit squad every season which no team has
The manager therefore should have a plan, it is his job after all

He has a plan. What is it you expect to see to show this? The guy is all about analysis and improvement. But that takes time.

Maybe, just maybe it’s why he only won 2 games at home this year at Brentford too. It’s possible he doesn’t know how to create a plan to play attacking football and relies on player brilliance.

If he coaches players to become more 'briliant' isn't that the same thing?

I have heard he had better attacking players at Brentford but still and the same outcome… so maybe, just maybe, it’s the manager.

It is too simplistic. You were eulogising over Slot. With amazing players they are in a hole. Is Slot suddenly zhit now? There is never one variable. But you can see which managers have long-term potential. Without a great squad, after finishing 17th, we are where we should be. No need to chop and change, every reason to get behind Frank and the inexperienced team.

 

[Grays_1890]

I have to say, having an early night an reflection, reading the pages, seeing twitter and then the stories about the players.

This gaff as a club is as toxic as I have known it for a while now and thats not all just because the manager choice may or may not have been wrong, GHod knows whats going on, but something just feels seriously up.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Don’t get guarantees mixed with expectation
They are very very different things

It’s called the Premier League and we are claiming in all levels to be a top club (not fans), and are charging fans to attend a premium product. Therefore expecting a premium product is fair.

Support is different, I agree. That’s very subjective and I’ve mad many comments on the past about our fan base and the lack of a siege mentality

When you start viewing the club as “a product”, you start to get a sense of entitlement because we have a certain expectation for actual products that we purchase.

And no good ever comes of a sense of entitlement in football IMO.

 

[DubSpur]

Of course he has a plan. To create a strong foundation and stop shipping goals. Which is how we started under Frank. Now we are back to conceeding too many goals. Two steps forward, one step back. You can't put those two goals we conceeded to Fullham at Franks door can you?


I'd say we bought one 'ready-made' creative player and another youth prospect. Simons can be more than we've seen, but he's nowhere near Kulu or Maddison yet.


See above. 1 player added of note, 3 down from last season. We have had a more stable defence tbf. Thought we really missed Romero yesterday. Danso seems to be well apprecaited, but there is drop in quality, especially in possession.


He has a plan. What is it you expect to see to show this? The guy is all about analysis and improvement. But that takes time.

If he coaches players to become more 'briliant' isn't that the same thing?


It is too simplistic. You were eulogising over Slot. With amazing players they are in a hole. Is Slot suddenly zhit now? There is never one variable. But you can see which managers have long-term potential. Without a great squad, after finishing 17th, we are where we should be. No need to chop and change, every reason to get behind Frank and the inexperienced team.

Create a stromg foundation and stop shipping goals?? For most of the season he has played with two defence midfielders and we still don't look solid. If we're abandoning all attacking intent the minimum that should be expected is that we are really hard to break down and nothing is getting through the centre. We're nowhere near that with constant chances given up around the centre of the goal.

If the guy is all about analysis and improvement I'd really like to show me one area that he has improved. We've gone backwards in every measurable area including literally in passing.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

When you start viewing the club as “a product”, you start to get a sense of entitlement because we have a certain expectation for actual products that we purchase.

And no good ever comes of a sense of entitlement in football IMO.

The club view it as a product

 

[lurker of old]

Has Britain generally developed a sense of entitlement? We are all entitled to a free NHS and in time a free State Pension, probably even if we've never done a day's work in our lives. Pensioners like me are entitled to a Winter Fuel allowance, families to special schools for children with learning difficulties etc etc etc
At Spurs our new stadium is world-class, and expectations of success have risen accordingly. In the digital space, we can curate everything we see, and we expect instant delivery. But living standards have stagnated. Everywhere patience is thin. Get back to winning and all will be fine....till the next bad run!

 

[DeanoAustin]

Has Britain generally developed a sense of entitlement? We are all entitled to a free NHS and in time a free State Pension, probably even if we've never done a day's work in our lives. Pensioners like me are entitled to a Winter Fuel allowance, families to special schools for children with learning difficulties etc etc etc
At Spurs our new stadium is world-class, and expectations of success have risen accordingly. In the digital space, we can curate everything we see, and we expect instant delivery. But living standards have stagnated. Everywhere patience is thin. Get back to winning and all will be fine....till the next bad run!

Don’t think it’s just Britain mate, it’s in a lot of places.

I’m despairing of what football is becoming. Any bad run and a manager has to be fired. Slot is under massive pressure from a club who claim “you’ll never walk alone” and he won them the league a few months ago. It’s fudging mad stuff.

No manager will ever build a legacy at a club without hitting a bumpy spell. In most other jobs, you’re given some slack for having a bad couple of months and get time to sort out any issues. In most other jobs, you’re given time to get up to speed.

I’ll never begrudge a manager a payout for getting sacked. The job and the pressure that comes their way is brutal.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Create a stromg foundation and stop shipping goals?? For most of the season he has played with two defence midfielders and we still don't look solid. If we're abandoning all attacking intent the minimum that should be expected is that we are really hard to break down and nothing is getting through the centre. We're nowhere near that with constant chances given up around the centre of the goal.

If the guy is all about analysis and improvement I'd really like to show me one area that he has improved. We've gone backwards in every measurable area including literally in passing.

Frank can only work with whats available, agreed? Your presenting things as though he doesn't want to win games, which of course is gonads. We are not "abandoning all attacking intent", and from what I see, we are working hard.

The issue is we don't have a settled team. I'll say it again: the issue is we do not have a settled team.

That is a culmination of several things. New manager, finding his players for his system, injuries, lack of confidence, lack of support. Your solution is to undermine the manager, and seek a new manager. When the real solution is to lower expectations, because we weren't a good side last season, back the side come rain or shine, and give them some space and time to work to refine and improve.

 

[Baleforce]

I have to say, having an early night an reflection, reading the pages, seeing twitter and then the stories about the players.

This gaff as a club is as toxic as I have known it for a while now and thats not all just because the manager choice may or may not have been wrong, GHod knows whats going on, but something just feels seriously up.

Could there be something going on with the ownership behind the scenes?

We've seen those kind of disruptions filter down to other performances for other clubs.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Don’t think it’s just Britain mate, it’s in a lot of places.

I’m despairing of what football is becoming. Any bad run and a manager has to be fired. Slot is under massive pressure from a club who claim “you’ll never walk alone” and he won them the league a few months ago. It’s fudging mad stuff.

No manager will ever build a legacy at a club without hitting a bumpy spell. In most other jobs, you’re given some slack for having a bad couple of months and get time to sort out any issues. In most other jobs, you’re given time to get up to speed.

I’ll never begrudge a manager a payout for getting sacked. The job and the pressure that comes their way is brutal.

Luckily they are paid £M to compensate

 

[Grays_1890]

Could there be something going on with the ownership behind the scenes?

We've seen those kind of disruptions filter down to other performances for other clubs.

Well Vinai was meant to be a PR breath of fresh air, he has been stone cold silent, I would have thought. Now might be the time to make some noise.

Im not blaming the fans at all, but the whole negativity around the gaff with protests and all sorts of crap thay gets spouted, it impacts I'm sure of it. Too many units with their own agenda has taken its toll IMO

 

[FolkestoneSpur]

I agree .

Here’s how I see it. For years our fan base justify our signings by saying we can’t compete with wages and fees the very top teams pay. That’s correct. So why do we expect top tier football ?

They are for the most part mutually exclusive. The market we shop in has lead us to where we are now.

So as a fan base I don’t know what we expect.

We don’t buy the best players so can’t expect top of the table football.

Poch really messed things up.
He got us playing the best football I've seen in over 40 years watching Spurs, we finally had a taste of what it was like to be Man U, City, Liverpool fans and coupled with the "game changing stadium" and just missing out on the really big titles a few times, expectations went through the roof and that toothpaste will not go back in the tube and tbh it's only right that a club our size has these expectations.
Frank was a nonsensical appointment in terms of squad profile and fans expectations around the type of football we will accept, "pragmatic" managers have never really been accepted at Spurs, even when winning it's a begrudging acceptance.
We're a bit stuck.
I think at this stage the only things fans will accept is massive investment from ENIC and a complete change in the profile of player we go for, with or without Frank.
It's incredible to me that from where we were under Poch we've managed to end up in such a shambolic state, fudge me it's almost impressive to have repeatedly dropped the ball so spectacularly.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I have to say, having an early night an reflection, reading the pages, seeing twitter and then the stories about the players.

This gaff as a club is as toxic as I have known it for a while now and thats not all just because the manager choice may or may not have been wrong, GHod knows whats going on, but something just feels seriously up.

A toxic mindset was established with all the Levy Out stuff last season. That’s not a comment on whether Levy should or should not have gone, or whether or not supporters were right or wrong with the protests etc, but simply that it produced an accepted outlet for dissatisfaction that is carrying on into this season.
The cost of tickets is a bit of a red herring in so far as even if every ticket cost £20 fans who are complaining now would still be complaining, but the cost rubs salt into a festering wound. And I get it. The football is awful. We should be seeing better. Or at least seeing a path to being better. And we’re not seeing that right now. I understand why people are fed up. I still think yesterday would have been different if we hadn’t coughed up two goals in the first five minutes - always an uphill battle after that, but that’s now in the overflowing “what if” bucket.

We as fans have had a reputation for years of thinking we are better than we are. I think we are finally realising that it’s true. And it hurts and it’s hard to deal with.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A toxic mindset was established with all the Levy Out stuff last season. That’s not a comment on whether Levy should or should not have gone, or whether or not supporters were right or wrong with the protests etc, but simply that it produced an accepted outlet for dissatisfaction that is carrying on into this season.
The cost of tickets is a bit of a red herring in so far as even if every ticket cost £20 fans who are complaining now would still be complaining, but the cost rubs salt into a festering wound. And I get it. The football is awful. We should be seeing better. Or at least seeing a path to being better. And we’re not seeing that right now. I understand why people are fed up. I still think yesterday would have been different if we hadn’t coughed up two goals in the first five minutes - always an uphill battle after that, but that’s now in the overflowing “what if” bucket.

We as fans have had a reputation for years of thinking we are better than we are. I think we are finally realising that it’s true. And it hurts and it’s hard to deal with.

Finally!!!
You must hear some of it where you sit and cringe like I do, surely

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Well Vinai was meant to be a PR breath of fresh air, he has been stone cold silent, I would have thought. Now might be the time to make some noise.

Im not blaming the fans at all, but the whole negativity around the gaff with protests and all sorts of crap thay gets spouted, it impacts I'm sure of it. Too many units with their own agenda has taken its toll IMO

It’s so divisive in the ground too
I fully expect fan fighting between each other next weekend
We’re likely to be stating that Brentford game in 15th place
The vibe is gonna be toxic from the start

 

[DubSpur]

Frank can only work with whats available, agreed? Your presenting things as though he doesn't want to win games, which of course is gonads. We are not "abandoning all attacking intent", and from what I see, we are working hard.

The issue is we don't have a settled team. I'll say it again: the issue is we do not have a settled team.

That is a culmination of several things. New manager, finding his players for his system, injuries, lack of confidence, lack of support. Your solution is to undermine the manager, and seek a new manager. When the real solution is to lower expectations, because we weren't a good side last season, back the side come rain or shine, and give them some space and time to work to refine and improve.

What attacking intent have we shown for most of the season other than hopeful punts into the box and set pieces?

He's here 5 months. That's time to show some attacking patterns.

There's a lot of area between your approach of blindly supporting the manager and wanting him sacked. Being unhappy with the manager and pointing out serious concerns does not equal wanting him sacked. So no, my solution isn't to undermine the manager (do you really think questioing his approach on here is undermining Frank??) and seek a new one.

We weren't a good side last year, but it wasn't a true reflection of the quality of the squad.